Redemption (Transcript)

MUSIC IN

DYLAN (Narration):
For years I’ve been collecting stories whose headlines depict a formula that I think you’ll recognize: “We Owe An Apology to [Blank].”

I’m sure you’re thinking of some names that fit in that blank spot right now. Monica Lewinsky. Britney Spears. Perhaps, even, Ahmed Best.

There are, unfortunately, many, many names you could be thinking of. Public figures whose public treatment we’re now reconsidering, however belatedly.

When you follow these stories closely, you start to see patterns.

Many of these public reconsiderations are launched by a high-profile moment.

Monica Lewinsky had her 2015 TED Talk. Britney Spears had that 2021 New York Times documentary. I think Ahmed’s moment came in July of 2018 in the form of a tweet.

MUSIC OUT

AHMED:
Um, that tweet in 2018. Um, that was one of the hardest things I think I've ever done, uh, publicly.

MUSIC IN

DYLAN (Narration):
On July 3, 2018, Ahmed found himself walking on the Brooklyn Bridge. The very same place where he’d walked, late one night, many years earlier. But this time around, he wasn’t alone. He was with his son.

They stopped and looked out to the water towards the Statue of Liberty. And in this moment, he snapped a picture of the two of them.

SFX: PHOTO SNAP

He opened Twitter, and started typing a few words that began: “I don’t talk a lot about my experience as #jarjarbinks because a lot of it is very painful. I faced a media backlash that still affects my career today. This was the place I almost ended my life. It’s still hard to talk about. I survived and now this little guy is my gift for survival. I’m ready to tell this story…”

Then he sent it out into the world.

To put it mildly, the tweet blew up.

And Ahmed watched along as the responses rolled in.

PERSON 1:
Thank you for sharing your story. So glad you are here.

PERSON 2:
Lots of love to you Ahmed.

PERSON 3:
My children love Jar Jar Binks

PERSON 4:
Jar Jar Binks is awesome

PERSON 5:
You made a character that will live forever.

PERSON 6:
No actor deserves that kind of hate.

PERSON 7:
We love you, Ahmed.

PERSON 8:
I think we need your story now more than ever.

PERSON 9:
I am sorry that we--as a fandom--let you down.

MUSIC OUT

AHMED:
And I remember sitting there and I was like, “Where the hell was this twenty fuckin’ years ago?” (laughs). You know what I'm saying? Like…

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
Where was this empathy?

DYLAN:
I get it.

AHMED:
You know? And, and I, I was like, why do I have to talk about… why did, why does this have to be the thing that makes people go, “Oh, wait a minute. Maybe we shouldn't have been so quick to, you know, do this and be so cruel.”

DYLAN (Narration):
Soon enough, news outlets picked up on it and turned the viral response it ignited into a story.

THEME IN

The very same mechanism that Ahmed had experienced nearly two decades earlier, when outlets were aggregating various anti-Jar Jar sentiments and presenting them to the world as a unified, widespread movement, was now showing him all of the love. He was surprised.

AHMED:
I didn't think anybody cared about my story. I think that I was just like, you know, “Oh, well that guy.” “That was something.”

DYLAN:
Hmm.

AHMED:
“Too bad.” You know? But yeah, it was, it was, it was great to see that there was some empathy out there.

DYLAN:
It's like finally that thing that George Lucas said to you of like, “Get ready. This is gonna change your life.”

AHMED:
Mm-hmm.

DYLAN:
Is it like now that was finally coming true?

AHMED:
Yeah. It took a while. It took a while.

DYLAN (Narration):
Ahmed was finally getting his flowers. His redemption. But it took nineteen years to get there. Today, we consider why this process took so long and how we can make it shorter. If not for Ahmed, then at least for the internet’s next main character.

Welcome to the final episode of The Redemption of Jar Jar Binks. I’m Dylan Marron.

THEME OUT

[AD BREAK]

DYLAN (Narration):
That tweet in 2018? It was the first domino in a whole line of amazing dominoes.

MUSIC IN

That same month, Simon Pegg, an actor who had previously trashed Jar Jar Binks, publicly atoned. In an interview, he said, quote, “I think most people were regarding Jar Jar Binks like he was a real creature and wailing on him for being annoying, or whatever, or not liking him. But there was a person behind that. And I [...] just thought, ‘Christ, I'm one of those people.’ It makes me feel awful.”

MUSIC OUT

"I feel so ashamed of the fact that there was actually a victim, a human victim in that.”

MUSIC IN

Then, a few months later, Ahmed shared his story in a first-person YouTube video. To date, It’s been watched over a million times.

And then, Ahmed appeared at Star Wars Celebration, the franchise’s annual convention, and he received a raucous standing ovation.

SFX: CHEERING CROWD

I think that tweet ushered us into a new era of how we see Ahmed, Jar Jar Binks, and the whole story.

MUSIC OUT

DYLAN:
We're finding ourselves in a kind of funny moment.

AHMED:
Hmm.

DYLAN:
Um, when there's almost a backlash to the Jar Jar backlash.

AHMED:
(laughs)

DYLAN:
We’re in an upswing. We are in the renaissance. We are in the reconsideration of Jar Jar Binks.

AHMED:
(laughs)

DYLAN:
Um, what do you attribute that to?

AHMED:
You know what's funny? George knew this was going to happen.

DYLAN:
The pendulum swinging back?

AHMED:
Yeah. He said to me, um, in '99 when the backlash first happened, he's like, “Twenty years from now, this is, it's all gonna be different.”

DYLAN:
Hmm.

AHMED:
And um, at the time, I really couldn't digest that information cuz it was just so emotional. But now I realize how, you know, prescient he was. And how, and how right he was. And he said that he made Jar Jar for the kids. Right? And he's like, “Twenty years from now, those kids are gonna be adults and the idea of Jar Jar is gonna change.”

DYLAN (Narration):
George Lucas clearly had a vision for the prequels. That The Phantom Menace would be a new generation’s entry into the Star Wars universe, and that one day, those young fans would come to be Jar Jar’s, and Ahmed’s, loudest defenders.

AHMED:
Jar Jar was their way in, and they're very protective now, these adults. Um, and they'll claim it proudly, you know, “We’re the prequel generation.”

DYLAN:
Yeah. Huh.

AHMED:
And “we love those movies, and those are our Star Wars.”

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
So, um, that's why there's this change…

DYLAN:
Upswing.

AHMED:
…That’s why there’s this idea because those children are now adults.

DYLAN (Narration):
Honestly, I buy this. For the “prequel generation”, Jar Jar is now nostalgic. And hasn’t nostalgia been at the core of this story all along?

MUSIC IN

I mean, in 1999, Jar Jar was trashed by some because he threatened their memories of the original films. The ones they saw as kids. That then, as adults, they feared were being turned into kids’ movies. It’s so funny to see how it’s changed now that Jar Jar has cemented his own place in a new generation’s memories.

MUSIC OUT

So, I do think that time is a key factor in all of this. But, I don’t think time is the only factor. I still do believe that by coming to the public square with his own story, he not only had his high profile moment that sparked reflection, but he gave a human face to the pain that some people still thought they had inflicted on a character.

MUSIC IN

Also, time doesn’t account for the other camp of Jar Jar backlash—the camp of people who criticized the character for evoking racial stereotypes. Some people in that camp still feel that way.

But perhaps that tweet demonstrated that the person who paid the biggest price for that criticism was a Black man.

And even if Ahmed coming forward didn’t change anyone's feelings about the character, they at least might be able to hold these two truths at the same time: That racism in film is incredibly real, and that Ahmed’s pain is incredibly real, too.

MUSIC OUT

But the question remains: what do we do about it?

DYLAN:
Obviously, it's unsustainable: if the pattern goes, humans find a target--

AHMED:
Mm-hmm.

DYLAN:
--after deeply hurting them, twenty years pass, we apologize, we celebrate them, we laud them, we make podcasts about them. Right?

AHMED:
(laughs) Yes.

DYLAN:
Um, how can we interrupt this now?

AHMED:
Yeah, that's a, that's a really, really good question. Um, nowadays there are just so many ways into the noise. We also have to recognize that the amount of people that make all of that noise, there aren't very many of them. Right? It's not the majority of people. However, that small minority of folks are really loud, really, really loud. They get picked up by more people and amplified. Right? But that's not who we are. There is a lot of awesome in this world. There are more of the people who appreciate the work than don't appreciate the work.

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
The Don't Appreciate people are really loud. And unfortunately, culturally they have an effect on people. And that's what we don't understand. Right?

DYLAN (Narration):
I do think that we humans have a really hard time with scale. I mean, like, always, but especially when talking about online chatter. And then, that genre of articles that I’ve been calling “aggregator articles," they do a really good job of capitalizing on our skewed sense of scale by compiling the criticism of the few and reporting on it as a movement of the many.

And, if I may, I want to share a few of my hopes with you. Hopes that I would enact into law if I was, I don’t know, like, The Queen of the Internet. But until they make that title official, and I’m crossing my fingers that one day they will, just hear me out.

MUSIC IN

I hope we can do away with the headlines that turn twelve people into The Internet. That would mean no more “The internet hates BLANK” That means saying goodbye to “Twitter doesn’t like this person…” Instead, I think we should use more accurate—and, sorry, way more boring—phrases like “Dozens of people on this one platform think…” or “I could find 10 people who said this similar thing…”

Because as fun as it may be to mindlessly scroll through those articles, they often target one specific person, who has to cope with the fact that the quote-unquote “world” hates them.

MUSIC OUT

AHMED:
The backlash had a direct effect on my life.

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
Right? Everybody just thought that they were just being funny.

DYLAN:
Hmm.

AHMED:
A, they weren't that funny.

DYLAN:
(laughs). Right.

AHMED:
B, that joke cost me my job.

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
That's the effect.

DYLAN:
Hmm.

AHMED:
Right? Gotta remember that there are people behind all of your critique…

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
… and all of your criticisms. And those people get effected. Financially, emotionally, you know. Get affected. It's real.

DYLAN:
Well, you're saying that it uh, it cost you your job. I mean, it almost cost you your life.

AHMED:
Yeah.

MUSIC IN

DYLAN (Narration):
I really hope that we can be kinder to each other. But “being kind” isn’t something we can mandate. Partly because I don’t think we can abolish negativity. Nor should we.

I think we have to express negative opinions. We form our identities when we test those negative opinions in front of each other. But the tricky thing about “negative opinions” is that the term “negative opinions” encompasses truly nasty sentiments, and also constructive criticism. We can’t abolish one without the other, because what qualifies as “nasty” or “constructive” is entirely in the eye of the beholder.

But.

But but but.

MUSIC OUT

Throughout Ahmed’s story, I’ve seen how negative opinions—both obviously cruel jokes we can all agree are mean, and, yes, also constructive criticism that comes from the most noble place—can accumulate so quickly that they all end up playing at the same volume.

MUSIC IN

And, on our end, we don’t realize that by speaking up, our voice actually may not be needed.

Because we’re also living in a dystopia where our negative takes are no longer just shared with a contained group of people in our physical proximity but blasted out onto the highways and byways of the digital sphere. What’s worse is that negativity is encouraged by algorithms that are designed to keep eyeballs on their platforms. And, you guys, negativity is great eyeball glue.

And, yes, this dystopia is ever-present now, but we saw so many early hints of it in 1999. And I gotta tell ya, don’t think it’s going anywhere.

So, the story of Jar Jar Binks isn’t some rare exception. Some weird outlier. On the contrary, what happened to Ahmed is now the norm.

So I think “being kind” isn’t really about Abolishing Negativity. I think it’s about redefining what “kindness” means. Kindness can also mean realizing when a point we want to make has already been made. Because those many points create very real consequences for the person on the receiving end of them. Even if we’ll never meet that person, even if they’re obscured under a grainy profile picture, even if they’re a combination of pixels in a 1999 movie that conceal a twentysomething who is only trying to do his job.

A twentysomething who we think is famous and can handle it. A twentysomething who is a superfan of the very same franchise we accuse him of ruining.

MUSIC OUT

Okay: Getting back to Ahmed, and this idea of “We Owe An Apology To BLANK”

Now this idea, it has some very valid rebuttals. The first of which is: Is that what Ahmed even wants?

DYLAN:
Um, is there an apology you're looking for?

AHMED:
No.

DYLAN:
No?

AHMED:
No. I don't need an apology. I was never interested in, um, anyone apologizing to me.

DYLAN:
Hm.

AHMED:
I care about making this work better. I care about moving this art form. I care about expanding the technology. I really– you know, the Black excellence shit? I give a shit!

DYLAN:
(laughs)

AHMED:
You know what I'm saying? Like I care. I really fucking care. I really cared about being Jar Jar Binks. I fucking cared.

DYLAN (Narration):
Ahmed really was one of the very first motion capture performers ever. He was a pioneer. And the erasure of his contributions to this technology follows a pattern that we’ve actually seen in history.

AHMED:
Black folks have always been the code of this country and uncredited and uncompensated. You know?

DYLAN:
Mm.

AHMED:
I think the record and the history of this is more important to me than any kind of financial compensation.

MUSIC IN

DYLAN (Narration):
The other valid rebuttal to the “We Owe An Apology To…” concept is… who’s we?

When it comes to Monica Lewinsky, I was a fourth grader minding my own business. Collecting beanie babies, caring for my Tamagotchi, I was doing my thing.

Britney Spears? Yeah. I have loved Britney Spears forever. And by “love” I mean “worship” and by “worship”, I mean dutifully learned the choreography to every single one of her performances in the 90s and early aughts. You might have to apologize, but honey, not me.

And Ahmed? And Jar Jar? I didn’t start an anti-Jar Jar website! I didn’t call him a sellout! I didn’t write an article in a syndicated newspaper about how the “world” hated Jar Jar, carelessly combining constructive criticism and literal hate.

Maybe you’re feeling the same thing as you listen to this. But I think the “we” is collective, not specific.

Because when we get specific, that’s also imprecise.

Like, does Adam, the guy who made The Jar Jar Hate Page, does he have to apologize? I mean, he can. But that kind of conveniently makes it seem like he’s the only one.

Do the people who wrote op-eds about Jar Jar evoking racial stereotypes have to apologize? Well, that raises the question: apologize for what? Watching a mainstream movie and then processing it through the lens of Hollywood’s racist history? I don’t think that’s fair.

When we say “we,” maybe it’s helpful that we don’t mean any one person specifically, but us, all of us, generally.

We, the people who consume culture. We, members of the human species. We, the users who communicate on digital platforms that are fueled by our negativity.

We can all be a little more mindful.

And we will be right back.

MUSIC OUT

[AD BREAK]

DYLAN:
I see him. Ahmed!

AMY:
Hi! How are ya?

AHMED:
What’s up man?

AMY:
We're back! Can you believe it?

AHMED:
This is so great. I have no idea where the hell we are.

DYLAN:
I know. Neither do I. Oh, it's great to see you.

AHMED:
Great to see you too.

DYLAN:
Um, this is Jacob…. (fade down)

DYLAN (Narration):
It’s been nine months since my last interview with Ahmed. Much of this podcast has already been finished. But then, we got a late-breaking piece of news that took Ahmed’s story full circle. So, I flew back to LA to ask him some final follow-up questions… and here we are.

DYLAN:
It's been a minute, huh?

AHMED:
Almost a year. (laughs).

DYLAN:
I know.(laughs).

AHMED:
Yeah.

DYLAN:
Um, a lot has happened in that year.

AHMED:
Yes! Several things.

DYLAN:
Several things, including one thing that you couldn't share with me…

AHMED:
I could not.

DYLAN:
… last time we spoke--

AHMED:
Mm-hmm.

DYLAN:
Um, you're in The Mandalorian.

AHMED:
I am in The Mandalorian, yes.

DYLAN (Narration):
The Mandalorian is the wildly-popular, critically-adored Star Wars television series on Disney+. And in the episode that premiered on March 22, 2023, viewers got to see Ahmed’s return to the official Star Wars canon.

And it turns out this return had been a long time in the making.

MUSIC IN

AHMED:
One day I get a, uh, an email um, from Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau. And they said that they, um, wanted to meet with me.

DYLAN (Narration):
Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni are executive producers on The Mandalorian. They’re very big deals. So, Ahmed took the meeting.

AHMED:
So I go down to their office and, um, have a wonderfully lovely conversation for like two and a half hours.

DYLAN:
And just to be clear, you don't know what's happening?

AHMED:
No idea what's going on.

DYLAN (Narration):
They asked if he wanted to play a part in The Mandalorian.

AHMED:
Uh, and I said, "I will get back to you."

DYLAN:
(laughs). Really?

AHMED:
Yeah.

MUSIC OUT

DYLAN (Narration):
That's right. The very same person who, decades earlier, was freaking out as he drove onto the grounds of Skywalker Ranch, the lifelong superfan, was now undecided on whether he wanted to return to the Star Wars universe.

AHMED:
You know, Star Wars is this thing that can, like, really take over your life.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
And because I've had such a roller coaster ride of a time with Star Wars, I, I didn't know if I was ready to be back.

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
And I know it's been, you know, over 20 years. So I, I was a bit apprehensive. I have to be honest. You know, I know a lot of people are just like, “What?! Star Wars?! Just say yes!” But, you know, it's something that I've had a lot of experience in and lived with for such a long time. So I, I had to really make sure that I was, you know, emotionally ready to do it.

DYLAN:
Yeah. Yeah.

AHMED:
You know, and, and, and able to kind of handle it.

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
Yeah. So, you know, to be a hundred percent honest, I was a little scared.

DYLAN (Narration):
The execs appreciated his predicament.

AHMED:
What was great was John Favreau and Dave and Rick, the other executive producer of the Mandalorian, were so incredibly generous and respectful. And the three of them were just like, “We will do everything in our power to protect you and make sure that when this happens, this is going to happen in a, in a great way.” And they wanted to make, you know, the coolest, most fun experience happen. And, and, um, that's what really made me go, yes. That's what made me say yes.

DYLAN:
Wow.

AHMED:
Was the fact that they were just like, "We're going to take care of you."

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
I, I appreciated that.

DYLAN (Narration):
There would be a number of key differences this time around. But the biggest one? Ahmed wouldn’t be playing Jar Jar Binks. He’d be playing a new character named Kelleran Beq. Well, sort of new. Ahmed actually originated Kelleran for a Star Wars game show years earlier, but this was now gonna a much bigger audience. And the best part? Ahmed would no longer be obscured under a digital body.

AHMED:
I have a face!

DYLAN:
(laughs)

AHMED:
That is mine!

DYLAN:
You have a face and a human body!

AHMED:
Yeah. Um, which was great, you know, um, but for me it was really about the character Kelleran Beq being canon now.

DYLAN (Narration):
So many of the elements of this whole story can be tied to Ahmed’s face being hidden behind Jar Jar’s. From the free license that some took with making fun of Jar Jar, to the various interpretations of the character, and even the general way that some people didn’t even realize it was a human being who they were hurting. And now, the face we’re seeing on screen is unmistakably Ahmed’s. No longer a CGI sidekick, but a heroic Jedi.

MUSIC IN

In the scene where Kelleran Beq appears, Grogu is escaping and Kelleran Beq protects him and ushers him to safety. That’s a lot of names for you non-Star Wars heads out there so I’ll just say that Ahmed is very much playing the knight in shining armor, rescuing one of the series’ most beloved characters who is also colloquially—but inaccurately—referred to as “Baby Yoda.”

The scene may be quick, but his entrance is heroic. Weapons are firing all around.

SFX: WEAPONS FIRING

The music swells.

MUSIC SWELLS

And a door opens.

SFX: ELEVATOR DOOR OPENING

To reveal Ahmed Best. I mean, yeah. Kelleran Beq, but come on: Ahmed Best.

MUSIC OUT

I got chills the first time I saw it. And, you know, let’s be real, the second, third, and fourth times, as I watched people on TikTok and Instagram freak out over this surprise cameo.

DYLAN:
What has the response been?

AHMED:
You know, it's been really great. It's been really, really, really great. Um, I'm not very good at compliments.

DYLAN:
Hmm.

AHMED:
Um, unfortunately, my wife makes fun of me.

DYLAN:
(laughs).

DYLAN (Narration):
Ahmed is apparently not only bad at taking compliments, he’s bad at recounting them, too. If you can believe it, saying the response was “really great” is an understatement. I mean, people were freaking out. And the kids who had grown up loving Jar Jar Binks now got to cheer as the man behind the pixels established a new space for himself in the Star Wars universe.

AHMED:
There's this idea that this is a redemption role. Um, I didn't feel…

DYLAN:
Yeah. Yeah.

AHMED:
… like I needed to be redeemed.

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
Because I'm more than proud of the work that I did as Jar Jar Binks--

DYLAN:
Yes.

AHMED:
And, and the work that really, like, changed movies in a way, you know?

DYLAN:
Yeah.

DYLAN (Narration):
I mean, come on, you guys. He said the magic word. I take this as my cue.

DYLAN:
I wanna share with you the title of this show.

AHMED:
Uh-oh. Ok.

DYLAN:
Um, and I welcome the most honest response, but the title is The Redemption of Jar Jar Binks.

THEME SLOWLY BEGINS

AHMED:
Hm. Interesting.

DYLAN:
(laughs) What is that reaction?! Tell me more!

AHMED:
No, I, you know, I like it, um, I don't know if Twitter's going to like it.

DYLAN:
Why do you think they're not gonna like it?

AHMED:
Um, well, the Z-ers, the Gen Z-ers and the millennials are, are gonna have a hard time with it.

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
Because they're just like “Redemption?!”

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
“Jar Jar is ours!”

DYLAN:
Yeah. Yeah. Well then I think we have the second season of this show, and then I'm in the hot seat and you're interviewing me.

AHMED:
(laughs)

DYLAN:
Um, but perhaps that's just the cycle of how it goes.

DYLAN (Narration):
As I sit across from Ahmed in the studio, I sense that this word is bringing something up for him. So I ask if there’s anything else he wants to add.

THEME OUT

AHMED:
Well, I, you know, I need to redeem me for myself. Um, and that's the hardest part about all of this, because, you know, a lot of those auditions that I went on when I moved out here were terrible. You know, they were not good. I was not good. And it was because I was so in my head and so nervous and so, um, worried about people hating me, that I thought I was giving them what they wanted to see rather than walking in and giving them me. You know, who I actually was.

And this kind of happened in The Mandalorian. You know, when I first stepped on the set, I was just like, "Okay, so what do they want? Like, what, how, what do, how should I, how should I do this? Like, am I... I don't wanna do too much, but I don't wanna do too little and I know that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." You know? And I just got in my head and then I just had to make the decision and be like, "Look, I'm just gonna be me. That's, that's all I can be. You know, and I'm gonna go into this and embrace this in the most me way that I can."

And, you know, that's what I had to learn. That's what I had to redeem. I had to redeem this like, sense of myself that I'm actually good at this and I can do this thing. And, and I'm here for this. You know, I think redeeming me for myself is, is what's the redemption is all about.

THEME IN

AHMED:
There is always redemption. We as people who love stories and storytellers, we love redemption stories, you know?

DYLAN:
Well, that is a great place to stop. Um, Ahmed, thanks so much for talking to me.

AHMED:
Thank you, Dylan.

DYLAN (Narration):
The Redemption of Jar Jar Binks is a part of the TED Audio Collective.

It was produced by Amy Gaines McQuade and Jacob Smith.

Our editors were Banban Cheng and Michelle Quint.

Additional editing help came from Jimmy Gutierrez and Alejandra Salazar.

Production support was from Roxanne Hai Lash.

Mastering by Ben Tolliday, who also made our theme with help from Jason Gambrell.

Additional production help came from Nisha Venkat.

Fact-checking by Paul Durbin with Julia Dickerson.

Special thanks to Gretta Cohn and Dan O'Donnell

My name is Dylan Marron and I created, wrote, and hosted this show. I also produced it alongside Amy Gaines McQuade and Jacob Smith. And I could not have done it without them.

And we all have some amazing people we’d like to thank in this final episode:

Thank you to Wilson Sayre, Evan Perkins, Ed Novick, Jennie Church-Cooper, Chris Boyd, and all of Haven Entertainment.

We are sending the deepest gratitude to Ian Kintzle, Connor Ratliff, Vincent Golphin, Mike J. Nichols, Dr. Ashley Hinck, Dr. Alice Marwick. James McLachlan, and Chris Wilson.

So much love to Lucie Sullivan, Owen Miller, Sarah Bruguiere, Carrie Brody, Carly Migliori, Jon Schnaars, Ben Naddaff-Hafrey, Isabella Navarez, Eric Sandler, Justine Lang, Emily Vaughn, and Lee Mengistu.

Thank you thank you thank you to Roman Kallberg, Raiden Kallberg, Vin Kallberg, Donno Cole, Kyra Sims, Garth Taylor, Alex Wohl, Jackson Bird, Glenn Marron, Franchesca Ramsey, Chris Duffy, Sarah Kay, Todd Clayton, and Jason McQuade.

And of course, we have to thank Colin Helms, Daniella Balarezo, Valentina Bojanini, Will Hennessy, Antonia Le, Jeff Dale, Julia Ross, Hayley Caldwell, Annie O’Dell, Nicole Edine, Connor Titsworth, Jen Michalski.

Thank you so much for listening to The Redemption of Jar Jar Binks. It has been a pleasure to make this show.