Becoming Jar Jar? (Transcript)

SOUND ENGINEER:
Alrighty that’s a 1K tone at minus twenty decibels on Channel 1. This is the Untitled Jar Jar Binks Project. Sound roll. Let’s call it “JJB01.”

ASSISTANT DIRECTOR:
JJB01, Take 1, A-mark.

DYLAN (Narration):
Welcome back to The Redemption of Jar Jar Binks. I’m your host, Dylan Marron.

Okay, now, to catch you up: anticipation for the new Star Wars prequel The Phantom Menace was reaching a fever pitch.

Fans were counting down, they were lining up, and they were sharing whatever information they could on the nascent internet. This was one of the most highly anticipated movies of the twentieth century. If not the most.

SFX: CLAPBOARD CLAPS

DYLAN (Narration):
And this new movie was all set to debut a groundbreaking performance by a young actor making his feature film debut. A young actor named Ahmed Best.

THEME IN

DYLAN (Narration):
Now before the anticipation, before the speculation, before that Vanity Fair cover that showed Jar Jar Binks and not Ahmed, before the backlash, before the ridicule, there was a young kid in the South Bronx.

DYLAN:
We’re gonna start at the beginning.

AHMED:
Yes

DYLAN (Narration):
I’m talking to Ahmed in Los Angeles. Because how could I make a show about Jar Jar Binks, without talking to the person who played him?

THEME OUT

DYLAN:
You were a nerd, self-professed.

AHMED:
I was, I was a big nerd. Yeah.

DYLAN:
A nerdy kid, fan of sci-fi.

AHMED:
Huge fan of sci-fi. Sci-fi, comic books, um, science.

DYLAN:
Mm.

AHMED:
I was in the marching band. I was on the AV squad. Like I was, I was a very nerdy kid.

DYLAN:
Yeah. You were… bonafide nerd.

MUSIC IN

DYLAN (Narration):
And like so many, Ahmed was a huge fan of Star Wars.

AHMED:
Star Wars was the first movie I ever saw. In theaters. Very first movie I ever saw. And I remember showing up, um, in the movie theater, late.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm (laughs).

AHMED:
And so the only seats that were available were, like, in the very front row.

SFX: AMBIENT SOUNDS OF MOVIEGOERS CHATTING

AHMED:
And I, I must have been about three or four at the time. And I remember sitting in that front row and as soon as we sat down…

MUSIC BUILDS

AHMED:
… the movie started and then, BLAM. You know, the…

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
… the theme and the scroll

DYLAN:
The text.

AHMED:
and the, you know, the, the, the destroyer coming in and I was just hooked immediately.

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
I was hooked.

DYLAN:
Wow.

AHMED:
So I just completely fell in love with it, and I wanted everything to be Star Wars. Like, everything about my life.

MUSIC OUT / MUSIC IN

AHMED:
Um, my mom made me and my brother, from the fabric store, 'cause we couldn't afford the real shit. My mom went to the fabric store, bought Star Wars fabric, and made us pajamas and pillows and curtains and sheets like made it for us.

DYLAN:
Homemade matching sets.

AHMED:
Homemade, matching Star Wars shit.

MUSIC OUT

DYLAN (Narration):
His childhood was one full of art and music.

DYLAN:
Uh, your dad was a cinematographer.

AHMED:
Yes. And it was at a time when there were race riots in New York City, um, and at the time there was no one Black in broadcasting. In front of or behind the camera. So, the network broadcasters wanted to get into the Black neighborhoods and tell these stories, right? But the folks who were in charge of the community said, “We're not gonna talk to anybody who is not Black.”

DYLAN:
Oh. Mm.

AHMED:
“So in order for you all to get these stories, you have to hire a Black newscaster and you have to hire some Black camera people.” And my father was one of those people that they hired.

MUSIC IN

DYLAN (Narration):
Ahmed’s dad instilled in his son a love for all kinds of cinema.

SFX: PROJECTOR

AHMED:
My father, as a cinematographer, was a big Kurosawa fan, and he was a big, like Fellini fan, so I was probably the only, you know, toddler in the South Bronx…

DYLAN:
(laughing) Yeah.

AHMED:
… who was like, “But did you see Hidden Fortress?”

DYLAN:
(laughs)

SFX: SWORD SOUNDS

MUSIC OUT

DYLAN (Narration)
And the creativity came from both sides. Ahmed’s mother was a renowned musician.

AHMED:
She's a very, very brilliant, brilliant human being.

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
Who, you know, she's one of those people who can, like, when they, when she sees something, she can do it. I started playing percussion because of my mom. My mom plays this Nigerian percussion instrument called the shekere.

SHEKERE PLAYS

AHMED:
And so, when, while my brother and my sister and myself were very little, we would go to her shekere classes.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
And so, you know, very much in the African tradition, the women in the class were just like, “Here, kids play these things.”

DYLAN:
Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm.

AHMED:
Right? We just learned it.

DYLAN (Narration):
Okay. Just need to jump in here and tell you that Ahmed’s mom didn’t just “play” the shekere. He’s kind of being humble here. She was, in fact, a world-class musician. She was a member of the internationally renowned group Women of the Calabash before co-founding her own group…

AHMED:
… called Lady Gourd SanGoma, which was also an all-women, all-female percussion, dance folkloric group that toured all over the world.

DYLAN:
Mm-hm. Mm-hm.

DYLAN (Narration):
And with this hyper-artistic upbringing, it might seem like young Ahmed was destined for a life in the arts, but…

AHMED:
I mean, my parents didn't want me to be an artist.

DYLAN:
Oh!

MUSIC IN

AHMED:
They knew how arduous that is. And for anyone Black in this country…

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
… to choose to be an artist…

DYLAN:
Mm.

AHMED:
… takes an insurmountable amount of courage. You're dealing with a lot of people telling you that you can't or you shouldn't.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

AHMED:
Right? So it takes a great amount of mental and emotional fortitude to decide on being an artist.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
So a, you know, a lot of that in my, in my younger years was impactful.

MUSIC OUT

AHMED:
I think the arts chose me.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
I, I, I didn't really make a decision to do the arts. I, I, I remember when I was in, in high school, I was in the concert band—speaking of “nerd”—I was in the concert band in high school.

MUSIC—“THE WINDGATE FESTIVAL”—IN

AHMED:
And I was playing in a, in a, in a concert band concert. And there was this piece called “The Windgate Festival.” And I was just like in the back waiting for the snare drum part. And then there was this fanfare part in “Windgate Festival” that I loved.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
I always loved it.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
Right? And then for some reason on this day in the concert, I was like, “Oh, here comes my favorite part.” And I was like, Trombones. And it was like, it was like [mimics trombones]. The part happens and I start crying.

DYLAN:
Wow.

AHMED:
Uncontrollably. Like, I could not stop myself from crying. And I was crying so much that I, I was, it was hard to read the music. And at that moment, I was like, the arts just got me.

MUSIC— “THE WINDGATE FESTIVAL”—OUT

DYLAN (Narration):
Successfully “captured” by The Arts, Ahmed immersed himself in creative endeavors after high school and into early adulthood. He was part of an acid Jazz band, and he was finding artistic work where he could.

AHMED:
I'm kicking around New York City and there used to be this African dance school. On Broadway and Houston called Fareta. My mother had a shekere class, uh, at Faretta. I would sub her class when she couldn't make it into the city. You know, I was living in Brooklyn at the time in Fort Greene, Brooklyn. And, one day I was teaching my mom's class and I saw this flier that said, “Percussionists Who Move.”

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
And I was like, “Well, that kind of sounds like me.” And I was just like, “You know what, I'm gonna try. Whatever.” Right? So I go–straight-up cattle call audition. There’s like a huge-ass line. I had never seen the show. I had no idea what STOMP was.

MUSIC IN

DYLAN (Narration)
For those of you, like Ahmed, who don’t know what STOMP is: 1, I’m so sorry. 2, it’s a long-running dance/percussion show that turns found objects—like trash cans and brooms and shoes—into musical instruments.

If you lived in New York City in the 90s, or the 2000s, or, honestly the 2010s, I am shocked you don’t know what STOMP is. It’s like the original Shen Yun, at least in terms of ubiquity and marketing. Now, if you don’t know what Shen Yun is…

MUSIC OUT

Well, I actually don’t have the authority to explain it to you, because, um, I’ve never seen it. I’ve just seen it on so many posters that I feel like I’ve seen Shen Yun. Anyway, let's continue…

MUSIC IN

DYLAN:
Did you even know the name or was it just…?

AHMED:
I heard about it, you know what I'm saying? But it wasn't anything. I, you know, I hung out a lot in the East Village.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
So I saw it and I was just like, “Eh, you know…” But I was very much a snob when it came to the music that I was doing. I was like, “Man, Broadway, this is corny.” Right? “I'm not gonna do that.”

So I was just like, “You know what? I, I could use a gig.” So I went to this open call audition and then I found out that it was like found object percussion and I was just like, “Oh, this, I, I've been doing this since I'm 10 years old. Found object? This is easy! Pots and pans and garbage cans and tables?” I was like, “I got this.”

DYLAN:
Yes. You got this.

AHMED:
So I did the first audition, got called back and I was like, “Oh, I got a callback. Cool.” And then did the callback. They were like, “Come back again.” I was like, “Oh, that's alright. Whatever. This is cool.”

DYLAN:
I'm in.

AHMED:
And then, final audition, I was just like, “You know what? This is actually kind of fun.” And then I kind of forgot about it.

DYLAN:
Right.

AHMED:
Right? And then I got a phone call, like, “We would like you to come and be in STOMP.” And I was like, “What the hell?! Is this… really?!”

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
And at that time there was no, we weren't making any money.

DYLAN:
I mean, but when you're paid as an artist for the first time, you're rich.

AHMED:
I was like, this is great. And so we went through the rehearsal process and STOMP was one of those things where I felt like that show was made for me.

DYLAN:
Yeah. Built for you.

AHMED:
You know? I, I just could do it. And I got it, you know, I just understood it. And I loved it. I loved every minute of it.

MUSIC OUT

DYLAN (Narration):
Officially a cast member of STOMP, Ahmed was in his early 20s and touring all around the United States. A tour that he could not have possibly known, would have profound consequences on the rest of his life.

AHMED:
So we're at the Golden Gate in San Francisco. And we had just come from doing, like, a hellish two weeks in the middle of the country, and San Francisco was gonna be the first time we get to chill in a city for a minute. And so our cast was, like, tight. We knew everything. We knew every nuance about each other. We knew where we was gonna go. We didn't have to say anything. Right? So one of the people in our cast got violently ill. And had to go to the hospital.

DYLAN (Narration):
Now, a bit of explanation is required here, so please just bear with me: to replace this sick cast member, STOMP’s producers decided to fly in a new guy to cover for him. And even though Ahmed had been playing the lead role on this tour, this new guy—the one who’s being flown in—he had seniority, and he decided that he was gonna play the lead role which meant that Ahmed would be pushed to the background.

AHMED:
The role that he wanted me to do, I hadn't done in like eight months.

DYLAN:
Okay.

AHMED:
And I was very young and very arrogant and, you know, I was, uh… (laughs to self). I used that night to, um, destroy him. And made the show all about me.

DYLAN:
Okay. How? Like showboating?

AHMED:
“Showboating” is an understatement.

MUSIC IN

DYLAN:
(laughs) Okay.

AHMED:
Like I was–

DYLAN:
Show-cruising, show-yachting.

AHMED:
I was, I was show-Ocean Liner.

DYLAN:
Great.

AHMED:
I was show-Love Boating. I was show-Starship Enterprising. I, I des- destroyed- I mean, the shit that I did was so… If I look back on it now, I, I'm so embarrassed.

DYLAN (Narration):
As that night’s show went on, Ahmed continued to show-Boeing 747. And he turned every single moment into a spectacle.

AHMED:
And then there’s um (laughs) I do a broom solo. So usually the Broom solo is like, good--

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
--minute and a half?

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
At the longest.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
That shit was like extended club remix. I was out there for– and I knew it was too long! Now this dude was nowhere near the drummer I am.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
Right? And so I counted that off at this ridiculously insane speed. And he was like dropping sticks and figuring it out. And I was just like, “Keep up!” And so, end of the show, encore, we're all out on stage playing, and he's supposed to be the center of attention, getting everybody to clap, clap, clap, clap. Right? For some reason, I had a group of like groupies in the audience who was just like–

DYLAN:
When I hear about you in STOMP, I, I understand the groupies.

AHMED:
And so I started, like, during encore, I started, like, pointing at them.

DYLAN:
Wow.

AHMED:
And then—oh, this is so embarrassing—I took my shirt off and I threw it in the audience.

DYLAN:
Wow!

AHMED:
And they, like, jumped up and grabbed it and screamed. And I was like, “Yeah, that’s what’s up.”

DYLAN:
Oh my god, you were really feeling yourself.

AHMED:
Asshole. I was an asshole.

MUSIC OUT

DYLAN (Narrator):
After the show, Ahmed was gathering his things, getting ready to leave the theater, and then…

MUSIC IN

AHMED:
One of my castmates, RJ Sampson comes in. And I was like, “Look man, don't say anything to me. I know I had a messed-up show. I know I was an asshole. I know I did. I just don't wanna talk about it.” He was like, “No, no. I, I had somebody in the audience tonight.” And I was like, “Word? Who?”

DYLAN (Narration):
The casting director for Star Wars. Robin Gurland. She was actually there to see RJ, Ahmed’s castmate. But she had also seen the double broom solo antics, which ended up making Ahmed feel terrible.

AHMED:
I felt awful. Here's this person that could change his life and I just made a ass of the whole fucking show. So I immediately, I was like, “RJ, I am sorry man. I am so sorry. I can't believe I did this.” And he was like, “No, she wants to talk to you.”

DYLAN:
Okay.

AHMED:
And he was like, “Go back up to the crib.”

DYLAN:
Uh-huh.

AHMED:
“She's gonna call you.” I go to the crib. Boom. “Hello, my name is Robin Gurland. Can you come up to Skywalker Ranch and audition for Star Wars?” And I was like, “What the hell are you talking about?”

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
Like, what are these wor– what?

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
She was like, "Come up to Skywalker Ranch tomorrow. And audition. But you can't tell anybody. You can't tell anybody where you're going. You can't tell what it's for.”

DYLAN (Narration):
Stay right there. We will be right back.

[AD BREAK]

DYLAN (Narration):
Ahmed Best—percussionist, dancer, self-professed nerd, and Star Wars superfan—was asked by the casting director for Star Wars to join her at Star Wars headquarters for an audition.

MUSIC IN

AHMED:
Next day, I grabbed the keys and I'm driving.

DYLAN:
Okay.

AHMED:
To Skywalker Ranch.

DYLAN:
Wow.

AHMED:
And every time I think about it on the drive, I'm like, “What in the hell…?”

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
“... is going on?”

DYLAN:
You have no idea what you're there to audition for?

AHMED:
No clue.

MUSIC IN

AHMED:
So I get to Skywalker and the gate at Skywalker opens by itself. Right?

DYLAN:
Wow.

SFX: METAL GATE OPENING

DYLAN (Narration):
The first thing Ahmed sees is this big beautiful Victorian. Now, Ahmed told me about it and I was like, “Oh, okay a nice big white house.” No, no, no. I looked it up. This is a 50,000-square-foot Victorian Revival mansion. It looks like a Victorian house was stuck next to five other Victorian houses and they were all fed a steady diet of steroids. It’s a huge house.

MUSIC OUT

AHMED:
I walk up the stairs, right? And Star Wars, first movie I ever saw.

DYLAN:
Right.

AHMED:
I was completely enthralled by it my entire childhood.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
And here I am at Skywalker Ranch right now, and so I'm trying not to freak out.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
And we walk inside and there are these two display cases on either side, right before you get to the library.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
And in one side of the display case is, like, the original Luke and Ben Kenobi lightsabers.

DYLAN:
Mm.

AHMED:
And then the other side of the display case is Indiana Jones hat and bullwhip. And I can't believe what's happening. I’m freaking out. Completely fanboying. As hard as anyone has ever fanboyed. I was fanboying.

DYLAN (Narration)
And it’s in this headspace that Ahmed has to audition for Robin Gurland herself, the casting director who saw him in San Francisco.

AHMED:
So she whips out this camera and she goes, “I can't give you a script, I can't tell you what this is for, but um, I can direct you in a scene.”

DYLAN (Narration):
Now, at this point in the process, there aren’t many details on the character. All he knows is that whatever character he’s there to audition for, he’s gonna be acting like a salamander.

AHMED:
So it was supposed to be like, super close to the ground.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
And then every once in a while pop up and, and be bipedal, but was really a quadruped.

DYLAN:
Interesting.

AHMED:
Right? And so the stuff that she had me do--

DYLAN:
Floor-based.

AHMED:
--was really low to the ground. And it was a really tiny office. And so at that time I was doing a lot of capoeira, which is a Brazilian martial art. And so in this really small space, I would do these things. I would pop up and then I would, like, do a backflip. Right? In this thing. In this tiny space.

DYLAN:
Impressive! Yeah.

AHMED:
Right. Right.

DYLAN:
But there, there’s no script, there's no sides…

AHMED:
There's nothing. She's just saying, “Walk along the, there's you're, then you see something like a clam.”

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
“You pick it up, you look at it, you want to eat it, and then something runs into you and you get scared and you fall down.” So I did that, and she was like, “Okay, great. Thanks.”

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
And I drove back to San Francisco.

DYLAN (Narration):
Sworn to secrecy, Ahmed couldn’t tell anybody what was going on. But he keeps moving forward in the audition process.

AHMED:
Um, the screen test was a big deal.

DYLAN (Narration):
A screen test is often the final round of an audition process.

AHMED:
So, when I get to the screen test…

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
… and I'm just like, “can somebody tell me something? Like, can somebody tell me, like, what the character looks like or what I'm doing?”

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
And they were just like, “No, we can't really… Well, it kind of looks like…” and then as soon as I get some kind of a semblance of a form, they're just like, “Well, we have to wait for George.” And I was like, “George…?”

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm. It truly doesn't cross your mind that it would be him?

AHMED:
I had no idea that George Lucas would be in this process.

DYLAN:
Got it.

AHMED:
I thought I would be doing everything and then I'd meet him if I ever got the job.

DYLAN (Narration)
So, Ahmed is nearing the end of this incredibly high-stakes job interview. He’s still in the dark on this very mysterious character that he’s auditioning to play.

SFX: A DOOR OPENING, THEN FOOTSTEPS

DYLAN (Narration):
And in walks the director of this film. The creator of the Star Wars universe. One of Ahmed’s lifelong heroes.

AHMED:
Holy shit.

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
That's George Lucas.

DYLAN:
That's the dude.

AHMED:
And I'm– I have to do this audition. So I hold it together. And George starts directing me. George is like, “I want you to walk back and forth, walk faster, walk slower, a little bit more loping, a little bit more head movement, more arm movement.” (laughs) And so I do that for like a good 15, 20 minutes, and then he goes, “Okay, do whatever you want.” Right? And I was like, “Okay.”

MUSIC IN

AHMED:
And that's when I start, kick spins, flips all this stuff, right?

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
I'm killing it. Right? I'm doing all of this shit.

DYLAN:
No longer on the floor.

AHMED:
No longer on the ground. Right?

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
He changed that that day.

DYLAN:
Oh wow.

AHMED:
Right. He was just like, "No, I don't want that anymore. I want you to stand up."

MUSIC OUT

DYLAN:
So it’s a very creative process …

AHMED:
Collaborative.

DYLAN:
… even before you are officially in the role.

AHMED:
That was the whole beauty behind Star Wars. It was so incredibly collaborative.

DYLAN:
You're in a lab.

AHMED:
Yeah.

DYLAN (Narration):
More on this collaboration, when we return.

MUSIC OUT

[AD BREAK]

MUSIC IN

AHMED:
So I go back on tour, and I didn't hear anything for like weeks. And I thought, “Well, you know, if this is it, that was great.”

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
You know, and I got to meet George Lucas, one of my heroes, and got to do this weird, crazy thing. And it was so much fun. And I was gonna go to Brazil with STOMP. Like, that's it. Um, and then I get a call when I'm in Philly, like, “Can you fly to London and be in this movie?” And next thing you know, I'm on a plane.

SFX: PLANE

DYLAN (Narration):Ahmed arrives in England where principal photography is set to begin. And he will be playing the role of a Gungan from the planet Naboo: Jar Jar Binks. But he’s only there to play half of Jar Jar and Ahmed can explain that a little better than I can.

MUSIC OUT

AHMED:
So originally I was just the movements. I wasn't supposed to be the voice. Um, but when I got to London, I heard that no one was cast for the voice yet. Um, and so I told Robin—Gurland, who's casting everything—I was like, “You know I do voices, right?” And she goes, “You do?” I say, “Yeah. I have like, I can do a bunch of voices.” She was like, "All right, put some voices on tape for me, and I'll play it for George."

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
And so I did. I put like maybe 10 different voices and the, and, and I played for George. And then, um, the one George liked was the one that it, there is now, of course.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
But it's a voice that I used to do for my little cousins.

DYLAN:
Hmm.

AHMED:
Right?

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
And it would always make them laugh every time I use that voice. And so-

DYLAN:
Organically made voice.

AHMED:
Totally organically.

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
Nothing, There was no processing, no nothing to it. It was just like, "Oh, this is the voice that I use with, you know, little kids." And little kids loved it. And, and you know, Jar Jar was always supposed to be for kids. It was a kid's character. And George was constantly said that. He's for the kids.

DYLAN:
You were told that explicitly.

AHMED:
Yeah, Jar Jar was a kids--it was for the children. The kids are gonna love him.

MUSIC IN


AHMED:
And so at the table read, which was when I first met everybody, which was nerve-wracking. And there was this moment where I was just like, “Should I do this voice, or should I just read it as me?”

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
'Cause it's like, not cast, I don't… And like, I, you know, Jar was pretty early on, and so the pages are going by and I'm just like, “Oh shit, I'm gonna have to make a choice.”

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
I'm thinking fucking..

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
And like that's getting closer and closer and closer. I'm like, “Oh, fuck."

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
What am I gonna do?” Yeah. And then it's like, here it comes, the next line.

MUSIC OUT

AHMED (CONT’D):
“Oh, Moy Moy.” And then it comes out and I do it.

DYLAN:
And what's the table reaction?

AHMED:
They love it.

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
Everybody loves it. George was like, “Oh, that was great. Let's just use that.”

DYLAN (Narration):
With George Lucas’ approval—or “George” if we’re on a first-name basis now—Ahmed is officially now double booked as both the movements and the voice of Jar Jar Binks.

DYLAN:
And you started the process of building Jar Jar?

AHMED:
Yeah. I, I first got body cast. And it was in that process that I finally saw what the character was gonna look like.

DYLAN:
Wow.

AHMED:
They had a, a mockup drawing of the character.

DYLAN:
And it looked close to what we know as Jar Jar now.

AHMED:
Yes. Yeah.

DYLAN:
Wow.

AHMED:
Looked almost exactly to what we know as Jar Jar right now. And, um, I was just like, “Oh! That guy!” I get it. Right? Then next thing you know, they throw me in it. I'm in a whole bunch of latex and leather and helmet. You know, and I'm Jar Jar.

DYLAN (Narration):
As principal photography gets underway, Ahmed begins working with his main co-star Liam Neeson who you probably know from such films as Schindler’s List or the Taken series or, I don’t know, The Phantom Menace.

AHMED:
In the script, one of the imperial, like troops come in and fire at us.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
Right. Or I think it was a robot. Fires at us. And I'm supposed to, like, hit the ground.

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
“Oh no!” Right?

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
Hit the ground. And so that day I was just like, [vocalizes discomfort]. And so Liam looks at me and he goes, “What's wrong?” And I go, “I just think I can do something else here. You know?” And he was just like, “What?” And I was like, “I just think it would be, like, funnier if I just, like, jumped straight out of frame and did it, like, land it on the ground. Jump back in.” And he was like, “Can you do that?” And I was like, “Yeah.” And he goes, “Come here.”

DYLAN:
Wow.

AHMED:
So we walk over to George. Right? And I was just like, “Aw shit!”

DYLAN:
Yeah. Yeah.

AHMED:
“Liam Neeson is gonna be my advocate!”

DYLAN:
Yeah, yeah.

AHMED:
Right? Like, who's gonna say no to that dude?

DYLAN:
Unreal.

AHMED:
He's big. He's like burly. He's like a man's man. He's handsome.

DYLAN:
Pre-Taken. But still Liam.

AHMED:
Very much. This is post-Les Mis, but pre-Taken, right?

DYLAN:
Ah, yes. Yes.

AHMED:
So we go up to George and he's like, “George?” And George was like, “Yeah?” And he goes, “Ahmed has a suggestion.”

DYLAN:
Wow.

AHMED:
And I was like, “Oh shit!” Now, during this time, I was still the kid from the South Bronx, right?

DYLAN:
Right.

AHMED:
I was trying not to get fired.

DYLAN:
Uhhuh.

MUSIC IN

AHMED:
And there was a lot of imposter syndrome going on with me. Like, I was like, "I don't, why not... I don't belong here." Like everybody here has had, you know, things on their resume. I'm like, I just came from the STOMP and now I'm here. Right?

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
And so, “Ahmed has a suggestion.” and George's like, “Oh, okay, what is it?”

MUSIC OUT


DYLAN:
The floor is his. Ahmed makes his pitch. And George… is receptive.

AHMED:
And he goes, “Okay, let's see it.” And so we go back, we do the whole scene again, and then I do that. And he goes, “That's great.” And that's what ends up in the movie.

MUSIC IN

DYLAN:
Wow.

AHMED:
So I say to Liam, I was like, “Hey man, thank you for that.” And he goes, “You're an artist. You're a collaborator, you're a part of this process. You have a voice. Never hold onto an idea. You're a part of this.”

DYLAN:
So you had a real, like, support system on set.

AHMED:
Yeah, it was pretty wonderful.

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
I mean, I learned so much. You know, this was my first movie. So I, I was really trying to soak in as much as I possibly could and, and try to learn as much as I possibly could on the job. And that was such a big lesson for me because it really showed me that I was valuable to this process, that I was supposed to be there.

MUSIC OUT

DYLAN (Narration):
As he steps into this confidence on set, Ahmed continues to make contributions. He’s even able to infuse his performance as Jar Jar with outside influences.

MUSIC IN

AHMED:
Buster Keaton and Jackie Chan.

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
Those were my two biggest influences for Jar Jar: Buster Keaton and Jackie Chan. Everything that I do as Jar Jar is either Drunken Master Jackie Chan.

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
Or… pick a Buster Keaton movie.

DYLAN:
(laughs)

DYLAN (Narration):
As production continues, there’s a slight change in course on how to film Jar Jar Binks. And Ahmed is called to do additional work in California.

AHMED:
All the animators are there. And they hand me, you know, the catsuit.

DYLAN:
But you've never, this is, I mean now–

AHMED:
No idea.

DYLAN:
We would know exactly what is.

AHMED:
Exactly.

DYLAN:
At the time…

AHMED:
At the time, no one knew. Except for ILM,

DYLAN (Narration):
ILM stands for “Industrial Light and Magic”—it’s the VFX studio that works on Star Wars movies, among many other projects. And this “catsuit” they’ve handed Ahmed, it’s bespeckled with reflectors.

AHMED:
And then they put me in these like six-inch platform heels.

DYLAN:
Go off! This is incredible.

AHMED:
Aha. And then they take me to what they call “The Volume,” right?

DYLAN:
Mm-hmm.

AHMED:
Which is this huge--

DYLAN:
“The Volume”?

AHMED:
“The Volume.”

DYLAN:
I mean that's out of sci-fi.

AHMED:
Right. Yeah, absolutely. Huge open space.

DYLAN (Narration):
This mysterious technique that they’re using, it's called motion capture. And you have to remember, in the 90s, so at the time, it’s the cutting edge of innovation.

AHMED:
And the animators came over to me and was like, “That was great. Do you wanna see it?”

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
And I said, “Yeah! What is this?” And I go behind– and at that time, like monitors were like--

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
Four feet thick. Right? It was like rooms of hard drives that can do what our phones can do. Right?

DYLAN:
Yeah.

AHMED:
And I look at this and I see these dots on the screen that are moving like me. It had a personality. It had it, it was alive. Even though it was just this point cloud—it had energy to it, it had life to it. It didn't feel computerized. Right? And they were just dots. And they were just like, “Yeah. This is gonna work. This is really gonna work.”

MUSIC OUT

DYLAN (Narration):
And he finds himself in this unique position. He’s one of the first motion capture performers ever. And George Lucas was really game to experiment with the fusion of this new tech and this young actor.

AHMED:
When it came to Jar Jar, he really gave me a lot of room to make mistakes. And I, and I think that was incredibly important because this was the first time this was done at this scale in a major motion picture ever.

DYLAN:
Mm.

AHMED:
And it was, it was quite ambitious, and it was something new. So we were kind of writing everything as it was happening. Um, and that goes from, like, my movement, my action, my voice, my interaction, and the software.

DYLAN:
Hm.

AHMED:
Right? So ILM is writing software as I'm performing–

DYLAN:
Off of your movements.

AHMED:
Off of my movements. So it's this really integrated, symbiotic relationship that I have. And I'm the bridge between the CG world and the real world. So George gives me a direction, I behave, ILM captures that behavior and writes software and animates that. And that was the pipeline. Like that's how, that was the workflow.

DYLAN (Narration):
All to create a truly novel contribution to the world of cinema.

AHMED:
This is not just a new film technique, but it is, uh, an acting technique that's brand new. Right? It's a collaborative technique that's brand new. It's programming software built on my genetic code. Right? Brand new.

DYLAN:
Mm-hm. Yeah.

MUSIC IN

AHMED:
And so what was exciting for me was this ability to continue this work. To watch this work evolve and to be at the forefront of it. Since, yeah. I was the first one to do this this way.

DYLAN (Narration):
The good fortune of this role, of this whole opportunity, it’s not lost on him. He seizes it. He spends his days off… not off. He goes to set. He’s absorbing everything he possibly can from George Lucas. And George seems really excited about Ahmed, and about all the possibilities for this new character.

AHMED:
It was just wonderful, you know; it was just a really, really wonderful time. And because everyone was having so much fun with Jar Jar and with me, and this technology was new, everyone was excited for the world to see it. And, you know, George would be like, “Get ready. Get ready. This is gonna change your life.”

MUSIC OUT / THEME IN

DYLAN (Narration):
Coming up on The Redemption of Jar Jar Binks…

ROB:
I had lived in this amazing—and nervous—bubble of helping George Lucas bring these characters to life. And I knew by the end of that movie that we had achieved that. And I will never forget. I was sitting in a hotel room getting interviewed by Rolling Stone. I'm actually getting goosebumps. It was only then that I, it started to dawn on me that Jar Jar was not necessarily going to be the most popular character.

DYLAN (Narration):
The Redemption of Jar Jar Binks is a part of the TED Audio Collective.

It’s produced by Amy Gaines-McQuade, Jacob Smith, and me, Dylan Marron.

Our editors are Banban Cheng and Michelle Quint.

Additional editing by Jimmy Gutierrez and Alejandra Salazar.

Production support from Roxanne Hai Lash.

Mastering by Ben Tolliday, who also made our theme with help from Jason Gambrell.

That shekere recording you heard was from Big Joe Drummer, courtesy of freesound.org.

Additional production help from Nisha Venkat.

Fact-checking by Kate Williams with Julia Dickerson.

Special thanks to Gretta Cohn and Dan O'Donnell.

A big thank you to Pam Kelly, Larry Clark, and Wingert-Jones for the use of “Windgate Festival” in this episode.

And finally, another big thank you to Chris Boyd, Jennie Church-Cooper, and Haven Entertainment for production support.

THEME OUT