Lessons from 102-year-old swimmer Maurine Kornfeld (Transcript)

[00:00:00] Chris Duffy:
You're listening to How to Be a Better Human. I'm your host, Chris Duffy. Before we get into the episode, a quick note. This is the last episode of season three of How to Be a Better Human. And after this, the Better Human team is gonna take a few weeks off for the holidays. And then we will be back with new episodes for season four in the new year.

And on a personal note, I am gonna be taking parental leave for the birth of my first kid, which I'm very excited about—a little nervous, but mostly excited. And I feel really lucky to be hosting a show like this, where I get to have advice from all these brilliant experts about how to handle life transitions like the one that my family is about to go through.

When it comes to this podcast, we have been pre-recording episodes, so you will be able to keep listening to our show in the new year as per usual, but I wanted to give you a heads up because I will be out changing diapers and feeding a baby and trying my best to get some sleep. You know, with this big transition that's coming up in my life, I have been thinking a lot about family these days. What family means. What it requires from us. How I want to show up as a family member.

And today's episode is very near and dear to my heart because it's with a person who I consider to be one of my chosen family members. She's also someone who I have learned a ton about what it means to be a better human from.

Maurine Kornfeld is many things. She has worked as a social worker, a teacher, a docent at an art museum. But the way that most people know her is as a swimmer. In the pool, they call her Mighty Mo. And Mighty Mo is a world record setting competitor who was inducted into the International Swimming Hall of Fame.

And at the end of this month, Mighty Mo is going to be celebrating her 102nd birthday. And she's still in the pool most days. In fact, that is how Mo and I met. I was swimming laps in the public pool, and Mo was in the lane next to me when she called me over to give me some pointers on what I was doing wrong in my strokes.

We started talking, and then I started seeing her every time I went to go to the pool to work out. It felt like she was always there, and she always worked out harder and stayed in longer than I did. That is 100 percent of the time she was there for longer than I was. Eventually, as we started chatting more, she invited me to come over and have some iced tea on her porch.

And I took her up on that offer, and long story short, now she is one of my dearest friends in Los Angeles and a person who I consider to be a member of my chosen family. There are so many reasons why I love Mo. She's interesting. She's curious. She's hilarious. She's always got an opinion about a book or an article she's read that she wants to share.

And when we hang out, I am always laughing. Mo has a quicker, sharper wit than just about anyone that I know. One of the many lessons that I've learned from Mo over the years is that it is never too late to learn a new skill. I mean, Mo has dozens of world records. She's won world championships. She's in the hall of fame, but she only seriously started swimming when she was in her sixties.

Until then, she didn't even know that there were different kinds of strokes. In fact, Mo only joined a masters swim team; that’s what they call the swim leagues for adults. She only joined a masters team because she wanted to take a dip in the pool on a Saturday morning, but it was closed to everyone except for competitive swimmers. And Mo wasn't about to let that stop her, so she basically bluffed her way onto a team.

[00:03:11] Maurine Kornfeld:
And I wanted to swim on Saturday morning because I worked all week. And they said you can't. And I said, “What do you mean you can’t?" And they said, “There's a swim team—master team.” Well, that meant nothing to me. And after an argument with whoever was on the phone, she gave me a name and number and says, “Well, call the coach.”

And I called the number, and this grouchy guy answered the phone and asked strange questions like, “How long have you competed?” I had no idea what he was talking about. So I said, “Not long.” And which was the truth. And he says, “What's your stroke?” And I never knew that there was really any stroke. I said, “None in particular.” And after this prolonged conversation he says, “Well you can come on Saturday morning and I'll look you over.” Like I was a side of beef.

[00:04:21] Chris Duffy:
That was the start of a grand adventure and a chapter that would come to define Mo's life and friendships. We are going to talk a lot more about that in just a moment, after these quick ads. Don't go anywhere.

[BREAK]

[00:04:41] Chris Duffy:
Today, we're talking about swimming, life, and finding your passion with Maurine Kornfeld, also known as Mighty Mo. Mighty Mo is 101 years old, and she still swims almost every day of the week. She set her first Masters World Record in swimming when she was 90 years old, and she has competed in world championships everywhere from Montreal to Budapest to Italy, racking up gold medal wins and record times along the way.

But people are often surprised when they talk to Mo to hear that she doesn't really care about the competitive part of swimming all that much at all. What she really cares about is just being in the water.

What do you get out of swimming?

[00:05:16] Maurine Kornfeld:
A lot of fun. I like the people. I like the feel of the water. It's exhilarating. It's, um, good for your mental health. It washes all the nonsense out for the moment.

[00:05:30] Chris Duffy:
Something that I've noticed, you know, we met because of the pool. And whenever I talk to you, you have such a wide network of people who are swimmers. You know every swimmer in town.

[00:05:42] Maurine Kornfeld:
I know a lot of swimmers.

[00:05:43] Chris Duffy:
So how has that contributed to you being part of a community?

[00:05:47] Maurine Kornfeld:
Oh, I love it. I love being part of a swim team. I've never been a groupie. I suppose because we have the same thing in common. And they're all interesting and of course all different. So it's a wide range of people, obviously. And I enjoy them. It's nice knowing people different from oneself.

[00:06:16] Chris Duffy:
Mm. And how do you think that that changes your life for the better?

[00:06:21] Maurine Kornfeld:
Oh, I think it enriches it in, beyond belief.

[00:06:27] Chris Duffy:
Mm. I’ve heard you talk about getting your daily dose of chlorine.

[00:06:30] Maurine Kornfeld:
Oh yes, yes, yes. My chlorine fix.

[00:06:32] Chris Duffy:
Is that what it feels like? Like when you don't do it, you miss it?

[00:06:36] Maurine Kornfeld:
After a couple of days, yeah, I want to go to the pool. I want to see my friends. I just want to be there.

[00:06:44] Chris Duffy:
Will you describe what it feels like to be competing in a meet? Like, what do you feel in your body when you get in the water and you’re, you’re competing?

[00:06:54] Maurine Kornfeld:
That's a good question. It's an important one. I like the fun of swimming. I like to swim well. I like to do whatever I'm doing to do it well. So what I try to focus on is what I'm doing, how my arms are moving, how my legs are, is my head in a good position. It's nice if you win, but it's okay if you don't win if you swim well.

[00:07:24] Chris Duffy:
Mm. And what does swimming well mean to you?

[00:07:28] Maurine Kornfeld:
Swimming well means you're doing what it, what you should be doing.

[00:07:33] Chris Duffy:
What life lessons have you learned from swimming? What has swimming taught you?

[00:07:38] Maurine Kornfeld:
I… To get wet.

[00:07:40] Chris Duffy:
Hahaha. Okay, that's one.

[00:07:43] Maurine Kornfeld:
Oh, I don't know that it's taught me any life lessons. Yeah, it has. Persistence. The value of routine. Discipline. Self-discipline. Particularly, you know, you win some, lose some. That's life.

[00:08:02] Chris Duffy:
Something that I find to be very meaningful for myself about swimming is that if you fight the water, if you push hard, you don't do better.

[00:08:12] Maurine Kornfeld:
No, you don't.

[00:08:12] Chris Duffy:
The way to go faster is to be smoother and to resist less.

[00:08:16] Maurine Kornfeld:
The water’s not your enemy.

[00:08:16] Chris Duffy:
Yeah, to me that's a very important life lesson.

[00:08:19] Maurine Kornfeld:
Yes, it is.

[00:08:20] Chris Duffy:
Yeah. That if you work with it—

[00:08:21] Maurine Kornfeld:
You work with the water, if you're smoother and your stroke is well done, you’re, you will move faster if you have faster turnover.

[00:08:35] Chris Duffy:
What, what do you mean by turnover?

[00:08:37] Maurine Kornfeld:
Pardon?

[00:08:37] Chris Duffy:
You mean like the turn at the end of the wall?

[00:08:40] Maurine Kornfeld:
Yeah, you gotta, you gotta keep moving.

[00:08:41] Chris Duffy:
Yeah. Haha. Yeah, I'm not good at that part. I'm not good at keeping it going.

[00:08:46] Maurine Kornfeld:
Well, that takes… that takes practice. It takes remembering. It takes thinking about while you're doing it. And I guess that's one of the things I do like about swimming is the concentration. Probably helps with other stuff too, but if you pay attention to what you, and really think about what you're doing, you’re more likely to do it better.

[00:09:12] Chris Duffy:
Mo is a celebrity at pools all around town. In fact, any time I hear that someone regularly swims in L.A., I ask them if they know Mighty Mo, and you would be shocked at how often the answer is yes.

In an L.A. Times profile that was written about Mo, the reporter discovered that swimmers in Glendale, Pasadena, and Sherman Oaks all claimed Mo as their own, and they were all convinced that that was her home pool. All of which is to say that Mo gets around town, and she makes every single swimmer that she crosses paths with feel special.

And I know it's not just me who feels that way. Jim Rainey, the LA Times reporter who wrote that profile of Mo, first met her in the pool too. And like me, he was charmed by her wit. But when he started asking around about Maurine for his reporting, he heard story after story about her kindness, too.

One swimmer told him how Mo had checked in on her repeatedly after there was a sudden death in her family. Another swimmer talked about how Moe had connected her with a friend who had become a really important relationship for her. And a third talked about how Moe started inviting him to see concerts together, and now they had a regular practice of seeing shows and operas and all sorts of other events together.

Mo is a great listener. She loves to hear about other people's passions and interests. What she doesn't love to do as much is talk about herself. And as you can imagine, that made doing this interview with her for this show a little bit of a challenge.

It seems like everything that you've done, or a lot of the things that you've done, you care a lot about community and being a part of… in community with other people.

[00:10:40] Maurine Kornfeld:
I don't know. Maybe.

[00:10:43] Chris Duffy:
Ah-ha. That doesn't ring true?

[00:10:44] Maurine Kornfeld:
Well, it, it hasn't rung any bells up to now.

[00:10:50] Chris Duffy:
Haha. Okay, but I guess what I mean is, you know, social work is about taking care of other people.

[00:10:55] Maurine Kornfeld:
Yeah?

[00:10:55] Chris Duffy:
And when I see you at the pool, and even I know this for myself, you're always reaching out, you're trying to build new relationships and friendships. That's something that not everyone does. But you, you really do that. You put a lot of energy into, to cultivating relationships.

[00:11:06] Maurine Kornfeld:
I guess it’s maybe idle curiosity? I don't know.

[00:11:10] Chris Duffy:
What is that? Tell me more about that.

[00:11:11] Maurine Kornfeld:
Huh. I do care about people, and I care about finding things that help people or helping them find that. Whatever it is to help themselves.

[00:11:23] Chris Duffy:
I will say that I really appreciate you doing this interview because I know how much you don't like for the focus to be on you. Whenever someone wants it to be about you, you're like, “No, tell me about yourself.” Instead, you'd much prefer to be interviewing than be interviewed.

[00:11:37] Maurine Kornfeld:
That’s quite possible.

[00:11:38] Chris Duffy:
Uh-huh.

Since Moe would prefer for me to do more of the narrating rather than interrogate her over and over, I'll just tell you a few facts about her life that I think are important to know. Maurine was born in 1921. She grew up in Great Falls, Montana. Her dad owned a menswear shop, and her mom stayed at home, raising her and her two brothers.

[00:11:56] Maurine Kornfeld:
I guess I grew up in a family where there was a fair amount of laughter. It was during the Depression years, so there wasn't much to really laugh about. But what do you know when you're a kid?

[00:12:09] Chris Duffy:
In your family, even during the Depression years, do you remember people laughing?

[00:12:14] Maurine Kornfeld:
Yeah.

[00:12:14] Chris Duffy:
What kind of things were you laughing about?

[00:12:16] Maurine Kornfeld:
Who knows? I don't remember. I had two older brothers. One, the oldest of the two, older, was more serious, more introverted. The one younger than he but again older than I was kind of a prankster. He was a redhead with all that goes with it.

[00:12:41] Chris Duffy:
Ha. Okay.

Mo would often follow her brothers to the local library. She's always loved to read, and she frequently lost herself in a good book. After high school, Maurine headed to the University of Chicago, where she got a bachelor's and a master's degree in social work. She loved her time at the University of Chicago. It's something she loves to talk about. But at first, she wasn't really positive that social work was gonna be for her.

[00:13:04] Maurine Kornfeld:
At first I wasn't sure what it was, and secondly, I wasn't sure it was what I was really wanting or interested in.

[00:13:16] Chris Duffy:
Why?

[00:13:17] Maurine Kornfeld:
I was kind of an egghead, and it didn't seem very intellectual, and also the people I saw enrolled in it at that time were all much older than I was. I went from undergraduate school, from age, age 20, into graduate school. And I had had classes with the president of the University of Chicago and of great books and, as I say, kind of the egghead treatment. And social work is not very, it's more scrambled eggs.

[00:14:00] Chris Duffy:
Hahaha. So what, what changed that made you actually like it and stick with it?

[00:14:04] Maurine Kornfeld:
It kind of grew on me, and I saw and found more opportunities to do things that were of interest, and I saw results, and I can't really tell you otherwise, and particularly after I moved to California in 1970, I began doing more social work in the community rather than in agencies that were more confined.

[00:14:40] Chris Duffy:
In Los Angeles, Mo worked at a number of places and institutions, but two of her most memorable, longest lasting jobs were serving the LA Unified School District and Cedars-Sinai Medical Center. We're gonna hear more about Mo's life, her career, and her tips on aging well right after this quick break. Don't go anywhere.

[BREAK]

[00:15:09] Chris Duffy:
Today we're talking with Maurine Kornfeld, a 101 year old world champion swimmer, former social worker, and current very good friend of mine.

A lot of people are interested in you and your story, partly because of your accomplishments and partly because of your thing, but also sometimes it's just because of the age that you are. So what do you think it is that people, um, don't realize about aging and aging well?

[00:15:32] Maurine Kornfeld:
I think they, people, sometimes, maybe often, I don't know, think you're more competent and better shape, whatever, than you really are, but that's rather nice.

[00:15:48] Chris Duffy:
Yeah, but you are in really good shape and you are, what, very confident. You don't feel like that?

[00:15:53] Maurine Kornfeld:
Well, I know all the foibles and all of the—theirs and my, and things that aren't quite so as they were.

[00:16:05] Chris Duffy:
Mm, of course. How do you handle that for yourself?

[00:16:08] Maurine Kornfeld:
Um…

[00:16:08] Chris Duffy:
How do you stay positive?

[00:16:09] Maurine Kornfeld:
I think one of the ways I handle it is being involved with other people. You know, when you're involved with other people, you don't think of your, about yourself. And I think most of us tend to think more about ourselves than we need to.

[00:16:27] Chris Duffy:
So what about for me? You know me pretty well. What advice would you give me?

[00:16:32] Maurine Kornfeld:
Stay as you are, baby.

[00:16:34] Chris Duffy:
Ha ha ha. That’s nice. What do you mean? What is the thing that I should keep doing?

[00:16:37] Maurine Kornfeld:
No, I enjoy your smile, your humor, your devotion to Mollie, your sense of adventure, and your steadiness.

[00:16:51] Chris Duffy:
Mm, thank you. That's very flattering.

[00:16:53] Maurine Kornfeld:
Yeah.

[00:16:54] Chris Duffy:
What about—talking about sense of humor for a second, you have a great sense of humor.

[00:16:58] Maurine Kornfeld:
So do you. So there.

[00:16:59] Chris Duffy:
Yeah. Well, so first of all, what's something that makes you laugh?

[00:17:02] Maurine Kornfeld:
I suppose it's something unexpected.

[00:17:06] Chris Duffy:
And why do you think it's important? Why do you think humor is important?

[00:17:09] Maurine Kornfeld:
Oh, because it gives you perspective. And that big problem you were so worried about somehow just disappears. Because it's pretty easy to focus on things that aren't going well, feeling sorry for yourself, which we all do, and I do, too much. It takes you out of yourself and gives you a better, different perspective.

[00:17:41] Chris Duffy:
So how do you, how do you get good at laughing at yourself? You're so good at laughing at yourself.

[00:17:44] Maurine Kornfeld:
Well, most of the situations in which we find ourselves that are miserable or self-inflicted pain, really, if you look at them from a distance, they're quite different. If you look at what happens in one's life and step away from the immediate, you begin to see, with some perspective, oh, isn't that strange? Isn't that funny? Isn't that weird?

[00:18:17] Chris Duffy:
Mo makes me laugh a lot. One of the most recent times she gave me a good laugh is when I was doing research for this episode, and I read that she had told a reporter who was researching a story about her that the profile was gonna be, quote, “a terrible waste of newsprint,” unquote.

And then, that Mo had self-described as a “chlorinated curmudgeon”. That's how she described herself. I am sure that she feels similarly about this podcast, that it is a horrible waste of audio print. I'm certain of it because she has told me many times, “Why would you be doing this interview? Why would anyone want to listen to this?”

Well, for one, I love talking to someone who doesn't take themselves too seriously, who is so uninterested in praise or attention that they try and convince a reporter writing a glowing profile about them that he is wasting his time. But more than that, I love talking to someone who truly embodies the spirit of this show.

I mean, how to be a better human? To me, the answer is be more like Mo. Get out there, make friends, have fun. Don't take yourself too seriously. Don't ever believe that it is too late to start doing something new. Set records, but also don't worry too much about them. Just do it because you like being in the water and do your best to love who you are in the water with. But enough for me. Let's hear some more advice from Mo herself.

And what about, if you were to give people three things to do to improve your life, what should you do?

[00:19:37] Maurine Kornfeld:
Three things to do for what?

[00:19:38] Chris Duffy:
To improve your life.

[00:19:40] Maurine Kornfeld:
Oh my god. Laugh.

[00:19:42] Chris Duffy:
Okay, last one.

[00:19:43] Maurine Kornfeld:
Yeah. Well, you can't get in too much trouble unless you laugh at the wrong time or at the wrong p-person. Then you might get into a little dutch. Three things. Outdoors, I think, is important. I love the outdoors. I'm kind of an out, outdoorsy, maybe because as kids we played outdoors. Nobody had invented a computer, and we didn't own a radio, and I, no one had come up with, huh, a TV. So we were shoved outdoors to get out from under our parents’ feet.

Reading, I think, is important. It has been for me. It broadens your world, it opens your world, and it develops skills. For instance, I was talking with a friend who teaches ESL, and I told her that as a kid, how I learned and memorized nursery rhymes. And the whole set of poems by... in the Child's Garden of Verses, Stevenson.

And that, uh, developed the skill, which I didn't know at the time, and nor was I developing skills in my head, of memory. So there are many things you can do that are fun and that might improve your life. But they might not, but they might be fun.

[00:21:27] Chris Duffy:
Okay, so we've talked about reading, we've talked about swimming. What do you think about just the balance between being independent and taking care of yourself and building community and relying on other people? How do you think about that?

[00:21:43] Maurine Kornfeld:
Well, yeah, obviously you need to take care of yourself or you become a burden for, uh, for others. You know, you got to learn to brush your teeth and wash your face now and then. Doing things for others should just be kind of automatic. It's part of being a member of the human race, of helping people.

It was certainly part of our bringing up. It was just kind of automatic. You just did it. People didn't go around with a little phone in their hand, one hand and fingers on it and the other and their face down in it, preoccupied with themselves and with their own activity.

[00:22:31] Chris Duffy:
Well, that's all that I have. Thank you so much, Mighty Mo. A pleasure.

[00:22:35] Maurine Kornfeld:
Thank you for being true.

[00:22:38] Chris Duffy:
Okay. All right.

[00:22:40] Maurine Kornfeld:
Does anybody ever say that?

[00:22:43] Chris Duffy:
No, you're the first.

That is it for today's episode of How to Be a Better Human. Thank you so much to today's guest, Maurine Kornfeld. That is it for this season of How to Be a Better Human. Thank you so much for listening. I am your host, Chris Duffy, and you can find more from me, including what I'm up to when I'm not hosting this show, on my weekly newsletter. Sign up for free at chrisduffycomedy.com.

How to Be a Better Human is brought to you on the TED side by the synchronized swim team of Daniella Balarezo, Chloe Shasha Brooks, and Joseph DeBrine.

This episode was fact checked by Julia Dickerson and Matheus Salles, who assure me that Great Falls is the name of a real town in Montana and not just a review of me trying to ski.

On the PRX side, our show is put together by a team of aquatic masterminds that includes Morgan Flannery, Noor Gill, Patrick Grant, and Jocelyn Gonzales. And of course, thanks to you for listening to our show and making all of this possible. If you are listening on Apple, please leave us a five star rating and review.

And if you're listening on the Spotify app, answer the discussion question that we've put up there. We would love to hear your thoughts. We will be back next year with even more episodes of How to Be a Better Human. In the meantime, stay safe, be well, and thanks again for spending your time with us.