David - “How do I turn my passion project into my career?” (Transcript)

[00:00:00] Anne Morriss:
Frances, we have a great caller this week. His name is David. He founded a local nonprofit with his brother. It's a family affair, and he's having an incredible amount of impact. He loves his job. The problem is it's not his full-time job yet, and he's also wrestling with the sustainability and exhaustion of doing two jobs, making this a side hustle, and trying to figure out, “Is this the time to jump in fully and make the leap?”

[00:00:31] Frances Frei:
Awesome. And what does the not-for-profit do?

[00:00:34] Anne Morriss:
It's an organization that offers a pretty intensive fellowship program focused on young Black men in Miami. Helps 'em develop their career goals and ambition and really allow students to get in touch with how they wanna go out in the world and contribute.

[00:00:51] Frances Frei:
Really looking forward to listening to David's message.

[00:00:54] David:
My passion is taking a big hit. I'm talking about the demand is so high for what we do in the community, but the resources do not match at all. I'm trying to figure out: how do we preserve our passion while growing and scaling this business so that we can focus on continuing to meet the demands of the young learners that we serve day in and day out?

[00:01:27] Frances Frei:
The passion, the purpose. Um, the clarity, all of it is really beautiful. It's also a very general situation, which is, “When do I make my side hustle my main hustle?”

[00:01:39] Anne Morriss:
Yes. And we've learned the hard way as a family, passion is a key ingredient in standing up an organization, but it's not enough. Uh, and you need infrastructure and resources and sanity, uh, to make it work. So I'm really curious about where he is on all those other dimensions as well.

[MUSIC BREAK]

[00:01:59] Anne Morriss:
I’m Anne Morriss. I'm a company builder and leadership coach.

[00:02:02] Frances Frei:
I'm Frances Frei. I'm a professor at the Harvard Business School, and most importantly, I'm your wife.

[00:02:07] Anne Morriss:
Yes, most importantly.

[00:02:10] Frances Frei:
And this is Fixable, from the TED Audio Collective, a show where meaningful change happens quickly.

[BREAK]

[00:02:20] Anne Morriss:
David, welcome to Fixable. Let's start with the work that you're doing today. Give us some context.

[00:02:26] David:
Yeah, so the idea of it was we saw a need in the school system, or we saw a need directly in communities of poverty, communities where violence was at an all-time high. We felt a student should never spend 12 years in school or more to simply end up in poverty or conditions adjacent to that. And so we, we thought of this module that prepared students for life and it just quickly evolved a lot faster than, than we imagined.

[00:03:01] Anne Morriss:
So wait, before we get into the evolution, if we can travel back with you to the beginning, so gi-give us an example of what was one of the workshops.

[00:03:09] David:
For sure. We do eight months of consecutive workshops, but one of my favorite is we do a Shark Tank simulation. So, this is more for students who are interested in going to the entrepreneur route, trying to figure out, well, what does it look like to build a business from the ground up? Pitch the business and the individuals that they're pitching to are sharks, per se. They're some of Miami's best and brightest.

[00:03:31] Anne Morriss:
And then in this case, these are business people in Miami who have started their own companies.

[00:03:38] David:
Correct. And so the students have to come up with a product on the spot. They have 15 minutes to create a pitch, and then they go in front of these individuals whom they've never seen in their lives, and they have to pitch the product and look for investment. So, and they get a cheat sheet so they know what to ask for.

But it's one of my favorite simulations primarily because we see students standing up and embracing vulnerability, one, but two, we see their creative geniuses really start to twirl and, and these kids, they can sell water to a well. Like, they're like, they're that good on the spot. We got a ton more, but that one for sure always, always warms my heart.

[00:04:15] Frances Frei:
That’s awesome.

[00:04:16] Anne Morriss:
So in the room for that workshop, it's you, and are you leading this with anyone else?

[00:04:22] David:
Anything that we do, we outsource through the community. We want to make sure that a, a part of our framework is, is students having access to trained experts. So I give the framework, but just in terms of actually running the workshop, that's all on our volunteers that come in.

[00:04:39] Anne Morriss:
Love it. Love it. And how many participants do you have in the program right now, per cohort or class or…?

[00:04:45] David:
Yeah, so we run a cohort module. We started with 10, and then the following year the application pool just blew up. And so we went from 10 to 15, which was hard because we've had hundreds of applications.

Then the following year we went to 20, and then we ended up having to, to bump again. And so this year, currently, we're serving 25 students all across the inner city of Miami-Dade County, Florida.

[00:05:09] Anne Morriss:
And what's been the high point of this ride for you so far?

[00:05:12] David:
The outcomes by, by far. I think the, the high points are when our alumni come back and they're telling us, “Hey. My whole life, I always thought there was one path to success. I always thought that I had to go to school, I had to go to college, and I had to do it this way.”

We do a barbershop workshop in our entrepreneurship and vocation where we highlight local barbers and they, they give a free haircut, and then they talk about their journey in that particular vocation, and then the historic value of the barbershop in the Black community.

And we have a student this year who is currently in barber school, who is an alumni of our program, and he's literally about, hi-his business is booming so much, he's about to open his own barbershop and—

[00:05:55] Anne Morriss:
Wow.

[00:05:55] David:
And the list is endless, but that, for me, is the high point—for us to know we're doing something here, we have the secret sauce, and it works.

[00:06:04] Anne Morriss:
And what's been the low point?

[00:06:06] David:
The low point for sure is the internal fatigue. And then knowing that I have this passion project and I'm essentially… It’s some days we're working the full week where we, we go to work and then we do the work with our fellows. But when you're working seven days a week, it's hard sometimes to get out of the bed and say, “I'm gonna show up 100% of where I am.” But the highs definitely push that out of the way and continues to keep us going.

[00:06:31] Anne Morriss:
What is your ideal relationship with this organization? Would you like to be full-time?

[00:06:36] David:
I would love to be full-time. My, myself and my, myself and my brother, we talk about it every day. Like, it's our dream to solely focus all of our time and effort on building us.

[00:06:47] Anne Morriss:
And I'm just gonna ask some technical questions. Are you a 501(c)3 organization?

[00:06:51] David:
We are.

[00:06:52] Anne Morriss:
You are 501(c)(3). Great.

[00:06:53] David:
We are.

[00:06:54] Anne Morriss:
Um, so it's you, your brother, and you have some kind of minimal board, I imagine at this stage?

[00:07:00] David:
We do. We do.

[00:07:02] Anne Morriss:
And how are you funding the program today?

[00:07:06] David:
I know when, when we started, both my brother and I, we were coming out of our pockets to ensure that we can do this. So today, we've been very fortunate to have the support of the local foundations in Miami.

[00:07:19] Frances Frei:
Got it. Um, and then in terms of the fundraising has been from foundations or from individuals?

[00:07:27] David:
Both. And so—

[00:07:29] Frances Frei:
Okay.

[00:07:29] David:
We do, just for context, we do two drives a year. We have, like, people who continuously donate and, um, there's a saying that my mom used to tell me when I was younger and it's, um, “A little-little makes enough of nothing.” And, and so whenever we think about our strategy, it's like, well, if we get a little here, a little there, a little here, a little there, then we'll have a lot in the pot for sure.

[00:07:51] Anne Morriss:
Got it. And do you have any employees at this point?

[00:07:54] David:
We don't, we, we don't. We contract some services.

[00:07:56] Anne Morriss:
Yep.

[00:07:57] David:
Every now and then for individuals who we deeply believe our students can benefit from.

[00:08:02] Anne Morriss:
Yep.

[00:08:03] David:
A lot of our workshops are donated in kind, and so the hope is, to, to offload some of the work that we do to one day employees.

[00:08:10] Anne Morriss:
Amazing. All right, Frances.

[00:08:11] Frances Frei:
Okay.

[00:08:12] Anne Morriss:
What did I miss on the diagnosis?

[00:08:14] Frances Frei:
No, I mean it’s… You’ve gotten it so beautifully. I'm gonna take a, a step, which is the generalizable portion of this, David, is that you're doing one, you wanna go from the for-profit world to the not-for-profit world, and you are an entrepreneur in doing it, which is beautiful. And you're doing something that it's so easy to get around, but because you're doing with a little-little, a little-little rarely yields enough for salaries.

It does enough for work, for the supplies and for all of that. So you've probably been underestimating the costs to run this business because the cost to run this business is your salary and your brother's salary, and honestly, and an administrative assistant’s salary.

So if we get to what it costs to run it, you have whatever your costs are and then add those, and then it's a real number, um, that we're gonna want to come up with a plan of how can you sustainably fund that, and I have ideas for how to do that.

[00:09:18] Anne Morriss:
Uh, can I, can I take a swing—

[00:09:19] Frances Frei:
Oh yeah.

[00:09:20] Anne Morriss:
—just to make sure that we are tracking, David? Um, is it fair to say that, I think I'm stating the obvious, but if you don't jump off this cliff, there's not someone else behind you who's gonna do it? Like this, this organization goes away if we don't figure out a way for you to do it sustainably?

[00:09:38] David:
Yeah, I think that's right on the money as well. Both, both my brother and I, and, and so I like, we would jump off the cliff together, or one jumps first and then the other one follows shortly after.

[00:09:49] Frances Frei:
And then, like, one other question. You do 25, uh, students a year. In your, like, most ambitious dream, how many students a year will you be doing?

[00:09:58] David:
I, I love that question, as we, we, we talk about it all the time, and so the, in my most ambitious dream, we'll do multiple cohorts, more individualized center cohorts, like a student-athlete cohort, a tech center cohort. Like, we would do that.

[00:10:13] Frances Frei:
Yeah.

[00:10:13] David:
So in, in my wildest dreams, there's no cap on, on what we could support, but rather categories for the individuals that are there so we can more carefully curate the experience that they get.

[00:10:25] Frances Frei:
Let's move on to some solutions, starting with new ways to raise money. The thing about fundraising is you're asking people for money for a service that they're not actually gonna consume.

It's much different than how we're typically asked for money. Here, I'm gonna give you money and the only thing you can give me is a story about the consumption, a beautiful story about sponsoring a student's scholarship.

[00:10:49] Anne Morriss:
Yes. The, the only investment with the possibility of infinite returns.

[00:10:53] Frances Frei:
So there's a cost per student of a year, and I think you are, currently are radically underestimating what that cost is ‘cause you’re not putting your salaries into it and you're not putting, uh, the executive assistant’s. So if you take all of the students and divide that by all of the money it will cost in addition to your salaries, what's the cost per student, right? And that's one way, and I have an example of that. Um, my favorite school in the world is a school in Peru, and it's called the Innova School. And they take kids, uh, out of poverty and they achieve unbelievable things with them.

And they set up a global program called Peru Champs, and that was for anyone in the world could sponsor a student. So right now, you’re getting the money locally from Miami and that's great, but oh my gosh, are there people beyond Miami that would want to tap into this. And so that would be my first thought is let's figure out the true per-student cost. Let's try, you know, the Miami Champs, whatever you are gonna call, call this one. So that's one way of the fundraising.

[00:11:58] Anne Morriss:
Yeah. Just, I wanna get, I wanna get, David, your reaction to that before we go on.

[00:12:03] Frances Frei:
Yeah.

[00:12:03] David:
You, you’re 1000% right? I can guarantee, right now, that we are wildly underestimating what that cost is. And it, and it's just such a hard place to, to exist, to, to be honest, like how do we, how do we codify, like, our worth? While I guess mentally we're thinking, “Well, are we taking away from what we can do for the students if our dollar amount is too high?” And so we have never put our costs into what it costs to, to run this program.

[00:12:35] Frances Frei:
No. And so what you're doing, which is lovely, but short term is you're building this organization on your own personal exhaustion. Your and your brother's personal exhaustion.

[00:12:44] David:
Right?

[00:12:45] Frances Frei:
So the best thing you can do for the current students and the future students is make it sustainable for you. It might not be the level of your current salary, but it has to be one that you don't have financial anxiety so that you can put all of your attention on this.

[00:13:03] David:
Right?

[00:13:03] Frances Frei:
So and, and it is an emotional obstacle.

[00:13:05] Anne Morriss:
Yeah, and it’s V1. Yeah. I mean, this is V1, so we spend a lot of time helping entrepreneurs start organizations, and you just did something extraordinary, David, which is, so you had this idea, you ran a couple of really smart experiments. You figured out if there was a demand for the service that you were offering. Check, check, check. You have, like, families beating down your door.

[00:13:28] David:
Right. Right.

[00:13:29] Anne Morriss:
Asked you to work with their kids, and you have kids showing up and thriving in your presence. So, like, check on that experiment. You also ran a really personal experiment that every entrepreneur has to run, which is, is this something that you want to be doing?

[00:13:45] David:
Right.

[00:13:45] Anne Morriss:
Like, you didn't know when you started this if, like, your passion and energy was gonna be ignited and it happened. So check, like, those are two really important checks.

[00:13:57] David:
Right. Right.

[00:13:58] Anne Morriss:
The, the third check that you're figuring out is you ran an operating experiment on what it's gonna take to make this company sustainable, and you haven't yet figured that out. There's not a check in that column yet. And so that's, that's what you're doing right now. And I think where Frances, where you're going is, like, let's start working with some hard numbers here. And sometimes there are, like, real emotions in the way of this, but let's get super practical. Does this business wanna be a business?

To me, the answer is, is yes. Because the other experiment you have to run when you're talking about the not-for-profit is “Do we have donors?” And this is what's weird about running a non-profit is you have two sets of customers. You have the students you're serving, but you also have the donors who need to write you a check.

[00:14:41] David:
Right.

[00:14:41] Anne Morriss:
And those are two different entities. You have some data around that as well, is that people are willing to write checks out of their own pocket for services that they're not gonna receive.

[00:14:51] David:
Right. Right.

[00:14:52] Anne Morriss:
That’s what’s, that’s what's weird about being a donor. But where Frances was going is, can we get a real tactical sense of, for version one, like, the minimum viable version of this organization? What is the cost to run it for a year? And have you done that kind of work, like base, a basic business model, this is what it's gonna take?

[00:15:13] David:
Yeah. We, we've, we've done that excluding what it will cost.

[00:15:17] Anne Morriss:
Excluding yours. Right, right.

[00:15:18] Frances Frei:
Excluding the one that has the zeros.

[00:15:20] Anne Morriss:
Which is what you sniffed out.

[00:15:21] David:
Yeah. Right.

[00:15:22] Anne Morriss:
Excluding, I would argue, the most important—

[00:15:25] Frances Frei:
The most important.

[00:15:26] Anne Morriss:
—at the top of this list.

[00:15:27] Frances Frei:
And so here's the calculus I'm doing in my head. Whatever the number is for you, plus your brother, plus half of that for an administrative assistant, that's the number. Um, and then when you divide that by 25, although I think you're gonna get to two cohorts very quickly, so I'm gonna say divide that by 50. And that's the amount you want from each donor. And I would say those are the out-of-Miami donors. The local donors, I would be looking to them for all of the non-salary costs. Right? Because you're, you're getting that now, right?

[00:16:01] David:
Right.

[00:16:01] Frances Frei:
They’re doing all of the non-salary, and that's beautiful and it's probably community building and I would keep doing that, but for the real infrastructure, which is the salaries, I would go beyond Miami for doing that and letting people sponsor a kid. And there'll be a waiting list to offer this curriculum.

[00:16:18] Anne Morriss:
Frances, why are you pushing beyond Miami? Why not go to rich people in Miami?

[00:16:23] Frances Frei:
You can do it, but it's so, like, the world is desperate to be helpful. And so what, while what you need is money, David, so many other people need the opportunity to give money. I wouldn't limit myself, at all, for it. I wouldn’t limit myself at all for it.

[00:16:38] Anne Morriss:
Right. And there's someone on this small team. You, your brother, and this uh, administrative assistant who's gonna own the task ‘cause it's really hard to do now, when you're doing two full-time jobs—

[00:16:49] Frances Frei:
You can't also do this.

[00:16:50] Anne Morriss:
Right. Someone’s gonna own the task of how to find these people.

[00:16:53] David:
Right.

[00:16:54] Anne Morriss:
And you know, social media has made it a lot easier and cheaper than it ever was before. But that's a, that's a, gonna be a serious part of how this operation needs to work.

[00:17:03] Frances Frei:
And that would be a good board member, would be somebody who has already successfully done stuff on social media. And so as member of their board, they can help with that.

[00:17:11] Anne Morriss:
And I, I'm gonna take a little bit of a tangent and come back, but I helped, uh, a friend of ours start an organization called Inner-City Weightlifting. So his model is he was working directly with gang-involved youth. And working on ways to get them off the streets and into a workforce development program. Started very small.

It started with this idea of, uh, the students training to be personal trainers, and it was just this seed of an idea and it's grown into, like, an as-astonishingly successful organization. However you wanna measure impact, this guy has succeeded. One of the coolest parts of the experience is that he would bring donors in to train with the kids, and eventually, he started charging for that privilege, and he stumbled on this impact that he wasn't expecting to be in the business of, which is that the relationships that would build between the student trainers and the donors who were coming in to be trained, who eventually were paying for the privilege, was, uh, a totally radical shift in the, just social dynamics of the way both of these communities saw each other. But the point is that these donors can be an asset to you in lots of different ways.

[00:18:36] Frances Frei:
And so here's the parallel I might make, David. You said in the beginning that these kids can sell water to a well.

[00:18:43] David:
1000 percent.

[00:18:44] Frances Frei:
Like, imagine if some of the donors who were local wanted to tap into that expertise.

[00:18:51] David:
Right.

[00:18:51] Frances Frei:
So I would go first to let's get the real cost structure, which is your salaries divided by the number of kids.

[00:18:59] Anne Morriss:
And then Frances, tell us again why you are dividing.

[00:19:03] Frances Frei:
And I'm dividing ‘cause I want people to be able to sponsor, I want people to give a scholarship for a kid ‘cause I want the sponsor to know. You feel like you're investing, you're making an investment in a person, you're investing in a person's future.

[00:19:16] Anne Morriss:
And I, I'm gonna give you my alternative thesis. David.

[00:19:19] Frances Frei:
Good.

[00:19:20] Anne Morriss:
And then we're gonna—

[00:19:21] Frances Frei:
And then you get to pick one ‘cause we're very competitive, so you gotta tell us who wins.

[00:19:23] David:
Oh man.

[00:19:23] Anne Morriss:
And then we're gonna let you talk about your life. I think Frances's idea is a beautiful way to scale fundraising, but I want you to get seed money that really gets this organization off the ground.

My thesis on where you're gonna find it is with people inside the Miami-Dade ZIP code who, er, really want this city to thrive in all of the ways and are willing to write you a meaningful check to really get to the next level of this program and understand how hard it is to start and scale an organization.

So when you come to these entrepreneurs and you say, “This is where I am in this journey,” they will know exactly what you're talking about. And then you will have a very specific number. Here's what I'm looking for: five seed donors. We're gonna give them a, a really sexy name.

[00:20:16] Frances Frei:
Have the kids come up with the name.

[00:20:17] Anne Morriss:
Have the kids come up with the name.

[00:20:19] David:
Right.

[00:20:19] Anne Morriss:
Um. Maybe when you're pitching them, you bring, uh, one or two students with you—

[00:20:25] Frances Frei:
Maybe an alum.

[00:20:25] Anne Morriss:
—to the meeting to tell the story with you. Um, and you say, “I'm looking for five people. These five people are gonna have a special role in the founding of the organization. They will be part of this story forever. Um, I'm raising $10,000 from each of you. I'm raising 25,000 from each of you.”

I'm planting these numbers in your subconscious, David, because these are not big numbers for the people whose rooms you're gonna be in. “For a hundred thousand dollars, this is what you get to be forever to this organization that I already know is gonna be wildly successful. ‘Cause let me tell you what we'll be able to do on no money.”

[00:21:01] David:
Right. Right.

[00:21:02] Anne Morriss:
On no money. It’s what we’ve been able to do with nothing. Can you even imagine what we're gonna be able to do with a budget of $250,000 for our first year? It’s—

[00:21:11] David:
Right.

[00:21:11] Anne Morriss:
Here’s how we're gonna spend it. Here's exactly how we're gonna use your money. I'm gonna come and tell you about it quarterly with these meetings. And by the way, there's X special program that I'm gonna invite you to help deliver because they could learn so much from you. So we wanna get you involved in delivering the program as well. Okay.

[00:21:31] David:
Yeah.

[00:21:31] Anne Morriss:
David, where's your head?

[00:21:33] David:
Yeah, I, I, when when you say you were planting it into my subconsciousness, I was like, it's, it's there. The seeds are, they're just being watered right now. So I, I'm, I'm locked and loaded and so I can't, too much pressure. I can't pick the idea that was best. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna go ahead and abstain my vote here. I'm not gonna do that. Right? I’m not gonna do that right now.

[00:21:51] Frances Frei:
It’s a smart move, David.

[00:21:52] Anne Morriss:
It's a very smart move, David.

[00:21:55] David:
But, but what, what I, what I will say is, uh, I, I'll say two things. One, this is not only affirming, but confirming. Because I think internally you, you kind of know like you gotta make that turn or you gotta make that pivot at some point. You, you keep playing double Dutch. You go back and forth with the idea and you, and you're asking yourself like, it's the time now where you're asking yourself, “Are they really gonna believe in what it is we have here? Even if we show them these numbers, even if we show them this, like are they really gonna say yes, like I am going to invest in that?”

And, and it, and it's just crazy because the answer is yes. And so I'm, I'm hearing two things. The, the first is we need to, we can still be humble; we can still practice humility. And then the second one is being a little technical in, in the way that we do it, because stories of impact are beautiful, like our success metrics and numbers are beautiful. But, I think that when people start to ask those real questions like “How much does it cost?” So that number truly, it'll never be whole if we, if we don't add our-ourselves in there. So that's where I'm at right now. Like, my mind is just, like, racing right now and just kind of want to hit the whiteboard and just go crazy.

[00:23:07] Anne Morriss:
I want you to be super selfish for this point in the organization, but right now what you really need is people to help you find the financial resources to make this a going concern.

[00:23:17] David:
Yeah.

[00:23:17] Anne Morriss:
When you think about donors, I want you to find the early adopters. You're gonna be able to, like, embrace the whole world once you have a full-time director of fundraising.

[00:23:27] David:
Right.

[00:23:28] Anne Morriss:
They’re gonna be able to get super creative. But right now, who are the donors who are gonna care most about this mission and have access to significant resources? And that's why I keep going back to Miami-Dade County, uh, with people who when you start telling them that story of the barbershop—

[00:23:48] David:
Right.

[00:23:48] Anne Morriss:
—are gonna have tears in their eyes because they started their own version of a barbershop. Yeah, it was a tech company and it was a, you know—

[00:23:55] Frances Frei:
It was a barbershop.

[00:23:56] Anne Morriss:
It was like SaaS software, but for them, it was a barbershop.

[00:23:59] David:
Right.

[00:24:00] Anne Morriss:
You know, I want, and they're gonna know, they're gonna have tears in their eyes cause they're know exactly what that was. And because they're entrepreneurs and they’re investors, they're gonna then start firing questions at you around how are you gonna use the money and how far is this gonna get you. And you know, what's the cost per person calculus that Frances wants and you—

[00:24:17] Frances Frei:
Scholarships!

[00:24:18] Anne Morriss:
And you will have already done that.

[00:24:21] David:
Right. Right.

[00:24:22] Anne Morriss:
Um, but those guys aren't funding a student. Those, those guys are funding, you know, 20 students.

[00:24:27] Frances Frei:
Yeah. Oh no. The seed ones are, that's big money.

[00:24:29] Anne Morriss:
And they're gonna feel like they're standing right next to you, David. And guess what? You're gonna feel like someone is standing right next to you because they are.

[00:24:38] David:
Right?

[00:24:39] Anne Morriss:
And that takes us back to how do you get the energy back to do this? You stop doing it alone.

[00:24:46] David:
Right?

[00:24:47] Anne Morriss:
And you lead with humility.

[00:24:48] Frances Frei:
You do, David.

[00:24:50] Anne Morriss:
So when I say to you, “I want you to bring some swagger into that conversation,” there's no risk that you're gonna go too far.

[00:24:58] David:
For sure. I can, I can do that. I can bring a little bit of that.

[00:25:00] Anne Morriss:
So where, where's your head now?

[00:25:02] David:
My, my head is, I need to go out there and get it. I dig that. I need to execute. One, I’m super grateful to hear the ideas given to me and, and in a space of “Let's get out there and like let's protect this passion so that we don't burn out.” And then ultimately also, so that both my brother and I, we can be satisfied with continuing to do this. That's where my head is.

[00:25:26] Frances Frei:
David, it is just a pleasure to meet you.

[00:25:30] David:
Yeah, I appreciate you both.

[00:25:30] Anne Morriss:
Good luck, David.

[00:25:31] Frances Frei:
Bye.

[BREAK]

[00:25:44] Anne Morriss:
Frances, what surprised you? Where did your mind go about the larger world of work? What's the takeaway?

[00:25:50] Frances Frei:
So for me, the takeaway it, it's an entrepreneurial lesson, which is you have to get product market fit, which is super hard. And he figured that out in a really difficult context for everything but the price. So you have to get the product market fit, you have to do it in a way that you love, right? So it has to, we have to create a good job for, for David and his brother, and then we need a funding mechanism. And that is like, that is what entrepreneurship is about.

[00:26:21] Anne Morriss:
Yeah.

[00:26:22] Frances Frei:
I hadn't ever really applied it to the not-for-profit in that way. Was super eye-opening, uh, to me.

[00:26:29] Anne Morriss:
Yeah. The way I think about it in the not-for-profit world is it's, you actually have to find product market fit for two sets of customers.

[00:26:36] Frances Frei:
Right.

[00:26:36] Anne Morriss:
For the humans that you are trying to serve, but also for the donors who you're also providing a service to.

[00:26:43] Frances Frei:
Yeah.

[00:26:44] Anne Morris:
Like, and in return, they get additional meaning. They get to feel like good people. They get connected to an issue that they care about somehow.

[00:26:52] Frances Frei:
Yeah.

[00:26:52] Anne Morriss:
And I think he figured it. Of course, you know, for the students that he's serving first and now he has to figure out how to do it for the donors.

[00:27:03] Frances Frei:
Yeah.

[00:27:03] Anne Morriss:
And this ride, uh, it can be really exhausting.

[00:27:08] Frances Frei:
Yeah.

[00:27:08] Anne Morriss:
And I think that's the other thing that, um, can take you by surprise when you're building a business. When I was running a company, I started, I, the way I thought about it was I would wake up in the morning and there are hundred ways—

[00:27:23] Frances Frei:
You could spend your day.

[00:27:23] Anne Morriss:
To move the organization forward.

[00:27:25] Frances Frei:
Yeah.

[00:27:25] Anne Morriss:
And on a good day, I got to pick three.

[00:27:27] Frances Frei:
Yeah.

[00:27:28] Anne Morriss:
And I, I think the type A among us gets seduced into thinking of, “Oh, maybe that hundred ways is, is achievable for me.” Maybe the—

[00:27:38] Frances Frei:
Maybe I'm superhuman enough.

[00:27:39] Anne Morriss:
Maybe as you like to say, gravity doesn't apply to me. It applies to all of us.

[00:27:46] Frances Frei:
Thanks for listening, everybody. If you have a problem, we would love to hear from you as, as you realize, we get very attached. You wanna, if you want us to join the family, as David said, and solve a workplace problem together, please get in touch. You can do it at fixable@ted.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 234-fixable. That's 2-3-4-3-4-9-2-2-5-3. Fixable is brought to you by the TED Audio Collective. It's hosted by me, Frances Frei.

[00:28:18] Anne Morriss:
And me, Anne Morriss. Our team includes Isabel Carter, Constanza Gallardo, Lidia Jean Kott, Sara Nics, Jimmy Gutierrez, Michelle Quint, Corey Hajim, Alejandra Salazar, BanBan Cheng, and Roxanne Hai Lash. Ben Chesneau is our mix engineer.

[00:28:36] Frances Frei:
We’ll be bringing you new episodes of Fixable every week, so make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:28:40] Anne Morriss:
And one more thing, if you can take a second to leave us a review, a good review. Make it a great review.