Am I Normal? with Mona Chalabi
What it’s like to live at home with your parents as an adult
October 4, 2023
Mona Chalabi:
Hi, everyone – it’s Mona Chalabi, I’m a data journalist, and I was the host of season one of “Am I Normal”… And today, I have someone else here with me.
Saleem Reshamwala:
Hey, y’all – I'm Saleem Reshamwala, host of the podcasts More than a Feeling and TED's very own Far Flung. I'm a big fan of Am I Normal. And I’m here because I have a pitch for this special season of the show, if you’re down to hear it, Mona.
Mona Chalabi:
I am all ears. I'm always down to hear a pitch.
Saleem Reshamwala:
Okay. So in season one, you got into all these ways that data can be biased or overly simplified or misunderstood… And a lot of times that data is about real people.
So – my idea is to try something different for a few episodes. What if we start with one interesting data point, find someone who fits that data, and then just zoom in on that one person's lived experience? Try to get into that complexity that data can't show on its own.
Mona Chalabi:
That sounds really, really exciting to me. I'm actually working on a book at the moment and the format of the book is actually really in-depth interviews with just one person who may or may not be representative of, like, a specific trend that's going on.
And the reason why that approach is really exciting to me is because, as we found so often in season one, and as I've seen over and over again in my career, data is fantastic at explaining the “what,” like, who is affected by this thing? How is it changed over time? How does it vary by geography?
But it often comes up short at explaining the why. And I think that getting to know a person in all of their kind of messy complexities can get you to a different place of understanding with those kind of more cold clinical numbers. And you can't really understand the world with just one side of that equation.
Saleem Reshamwala:
Oh, I love that this is something that's fitting in with work you're already doing.
Mona Chalabi:
But wait, let me shoehorn in a compliment as well, seeing as you did it. Uh…
Saleem Reshamwala:
Oh, I’ll take it.
Mona Chalabi:
I also wanna say that I love listening to Far Flung, and I really think you are the person to go forward and do this special season, ‘cause I loved how much you drilled down in your conversations with people about the why.
Um, and the other thing that was so great about the podcast was kind of dissecting this idea of otherness and what might at first seem really, really far away, actually being a little bit closer to home than you might think.
Saleem Reshamwala:
This is almost like a mashup of the two shows. We're kind of getting to make a stat-driven, micro-Far Flung episode at the same time.
Mona Chalabi:
Yeah. It's the middle of the Venn diagram, Saleem.
Saleem Reshamwala:
I love being in the middle of a diagram. So let’s talk about our first episode. Is there anything you’ve been interested in lately? Any topics that are on your mind related to data?
Mona Chalabi:
Well, actually, there is! So I've been thinking about this idea of living with your parents as an adult. It's something that we know increased dramatically since the start of the COVID pandemic.
In the U.S., the number of young adults living with their parents is higher than it has been at any time since The Great Depression. So now half of everyone aged 18 to 29 is living with a parent.
Saleem Reshamwala:
You know, it's funny ‘cause I feel like there can be a stigma attached to that, to moving back home in the U.S.
Mona Chalabi:
Mm.
Saleem Reshamwala:
Maybe like, “Oh, you weren't able to make it on your own.” Or some, some idea like that that doesn't seem to necessarily exist everywhere else in the world. I've got cousins who live at home in India, and that was totally the plan from the beginning.
Mona Chalabi:
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I feel like I also have cousins for whom living with your parents is completely standard and expected.
Saleem Reshamwala:
And so what's it like in the rest of the world? How are other cultures positioned in this stat of living at home or not when you're a young adult?
Mona Chalabi:
What I can tell you is the numbers themselves do change from place to place. So one of the stats that kind of really stuck out to me was from a survey done in 2013, where three-quarters of respondents age 18 to 35 in Hong Kong said they lived with a parent. And that is obviously way higher than it is in the U.S.
Saleem Reshamwala:
Yeah.
Mona Chalabi:
I guess I'm kind of interested in that interplay between culture and data, right?
Saleem Reshamwala:
Mm.
Mona Chalabi:
So, does having a higher prevalence of something mean that it's less stigmatized because there's way more people that can relate to that experience? Or does it mean that it's even more stigmatized? 'Cause it's viewed as a national crisis of, “Oh my God, there are so many young people living with their parents. We have to do something about this.”
Saleem Reshamwala:
Yeah. That interplay of culture and data, it’s such a succinct statement of what I wanna get into with this. And I’m also just curious about what living with your parents really looks like… What’s that experience beyond whatever stereotype people might have of it?
So, I will do my best with the squad to find one person in that data set and learn about them.
Mona Chalabi:
I'm excited.
Saleem Reshamwala:
I’m Saleem Reshamwala, and from the TED Audio Collective, this is a special season of “Am I Normal.”
Yves Leung:
So, um, I do have my own room, uh, that's my little space. But then, you know, we share the same living room. So usually, uh, evening time, all three of us will be gathering in this space.
Saleem Reshamwala (VO):
This is Yves Leung. Yves, by the way, is a nickname. She’s 28, she’s a teacher in Hong Kong. And she’s basically always lived with her parents – but she did spend a few years abroad.
Yves Leung:
Yeah, yeah. It wasn't that long. Uh, but it's enough to experience, you know, taking care of things on your own.
Saleem Reshamwala (VO):
She’s back at home with her parents now. And I wanted to know what kind of rhythm she and her parents have settled into at home…
Yves Leung:
I think my day would be, you know, waking up, I have my own breakfast and then I rush to work. And then my entire time would be at work.
But then coming back, um, that's when your second part of your day starts. Uh, normally if I don't have anything to do at night, I'll just sit there and talk. Uh, and I spend probably two hours at dinner. That's too long, I know. But then I just enjoy just sitting there, just chatting with them, just watching television. And, um, that's, you know, my day.
But then weekend is more complicated because you only have two days for your weekend, but then your parents are already expecting you to, you know, help them fix something that you don't have time during the week.
But then of course weekend, I also want to spend day with my partner and my friends. So usually now, Saturday, it's for me to go out, where Sunday, I, you know, stay at home, uh, to help them.
Saleem Reshamwala:
How does so many people living with their parents, how does it affect romance and dating? And how do you even start that conversation?
Yves Leung:
I think, um, so we've been reading different posts, um, on social media, but also, you know, different reports about how, how romance can actually happen, you know, inside a house. I think quite a lot of people actually, uh, live with their parents even after marriage, because they really cannot afford the flat.
Saleem Reshamwala:
Yeah.
Yves Leung:
So they will share one room. Um, but then in the next room, it'll be, you know, parents. Obv–obviously it's, it's gonna be embarrassing. So some couples, um, that I read from the post, they all, they actually have this, you know, capsule thing. Uh, like a, like a hostel but it’s just, you know, inside a capsule where you rent for a few hours, you know, do whatever you want.
And this is, the space that, that couples want. My partner has his own space. So, it's so much easy–it's more comfortable, um, for two of you just, you know, chat, have time, you know, just to get together. Other couples would just be sitting in the park, uh, just to chat after dinner.
Saleem Reshamwala:
And how–does living with your parents mean that your partner meets your parents sooner than they might otherwise? Or is it usually just kind of a separate thing separate thing?
Yves Leung:
Separate thing. Separate thing. Um, to my family, meeting the parents is kind of like the last step before you enter marriage. Haha, it's not like casual dinner–”Oh, hi, uncle.” It's not like that. Okay. It's, it's very official. It's a very formal setting.
But, uh, some friends that I know they're more, you know, chill. Uh, so it really depends.
Saleem Reshamwala:
Yeah. That's really funny. Uh, I feel like, uh, I can't speak for the entire community, but one of the communities that I'm part of is a, uh,llargely Muslim Indian community. And there's a lot of joking about how, like, you know, other folks might meet parents very soon but meeting parents very quickly after dating would seem really, really intense in that community.
Yves Leung:
Yes, exactly.
Saleem Reshamwala (VO):
We were intrigued by Yves’s mention of “capsule hotels,” so we did some reading. Instead of full-sized rooms, these hotels rent out bed-sized pods. Couples can rent a 2-person pod for a bit of alone time.
Hong Kong also has so-called “love hotels” for rent by the hour that are pretty popular among couples… which makes sense! If you don’t really have your own space at home, you’re going to look for it somewhere else.
So much of what Yves is talking about comes back to this idea of privacy. It might be a physical kind of privacy, like checking into a capsule for a few hours…
Or, it might be setting up boundaries in terms of personal time – which is something that affects Yves’s relationship with her parents.
Saleem Reshamwala:
I'm curious – how has your relationship with your parents changed over the years as you've, you know, lived with them as a child, but then also as adult? You know, we came across a survey on parents and adult kids in Hong Kong who were living together. About half of them said they argue at least once a week. Is that number about right for you?
Yves Leung:
Once a week. I, I don't count it. Do they count it?
[laughter]
Saleem Reshamwala:
That’s an excellent follow-up question.
Yves Leung:
Do they do this– this tally on the refrigerator? I mean, for me, um, so first of all, I don't count, but then of course, there are conflicts. But I think the biggest, you know, contrast, it's when I moved back from, um, from the States. The shock, it's bigger. As in, you spend those, you know, two years just completely on your own. uh, compared to here.
And then w-we don't fight for things like, like whether you, you have the television tonight or not. But to me, it's really more about, um, your time, when should you be coming back home or whether you go out too often. Yeah. That's why I said I, I don't count. Because if, if I have to count, I don't know if I should define this as one tally.
Saleem Reshamwala:
Do you remember, maybe, your favorite moment after you moved back home?
Yves Leung:
Yeah. I mean, there are a lot of them, but I think living with my parents, I have this completely cut-off time, uh, from work. Because when I was living on my own, uh, when I was doing my dishes, I kept thinking about, you know, work. “Okay. What's the plan for tomorrow, for tomorrow's meeting?” And there are a lot of issues that you've been thinking really hard, even on commuting. But then it’s just like, like magic, pop! Suddenly, you sit down for dinner and then my mom keeps talking, and then suddenly after two hours you feel like, “Oh, it wasn't that bad.”
So it gives you a fresh start to, uh, the next day, but also to the problem. It's also family warmth, I'll say, um, that someone really, like genuinely care for you, uh, ask how you’re doing.
I mean, even for, like, close friends, you call each other, I think, once a week, but then to the people that you're living with, you see them every day. Of course you have the most, you know, conflicts with them, but they are also, you know, people that you're closest to.
Saleem Reshamwala (VO):
I love that positive that Yves brought up. Having a parent chat with you while you're doing the dishes, yeah, that might be a nice way to enforce some work-life balance. I’d never thought about it that way before. After the break, I ask Yves about the stigma of living with your parents that exists in certain countries. Stick around.
[BREAK]
Saleem Reshamwala:
When you came back to Hong Kong, did you think about moving out on your own?
Yves Leung:
I think I didn't really have a choice. I wil, I will l put it that way. So, it just makes sense to live with them. But I think this is a very cultural thing because in Hong Kong, we're in–I, I, can only represent Hong Kong, right? It has always been very normal for, especially girls to, uh, just, you know, live with your partner after you get married. Um, but then these, I think, this two years I've been having this thought of really, going out just to, you know, have a space of, uh, of my own.
And if you are living with your parents and oftentimes in my case, I will be coming home, you know, fixing this, fixing the light bulb, fixing the pipe, you know? And then it seems that your time has been gone, and it's already 10, and you're off to bed. So you don't really have that space and time just for yourself.
But of course sometimes, I, I also have this ambivalent, um, attitude, whether I should, you know, really go on my own. So my best hope is that okay, for five days I will be living on my own. Weekends, I go back, stay with my parents. So this is ideal case.
Saleem Reshamwala:
Everything you're bringing up is super fascinating to me because not too long ago, I came back from a trip visiting my cousins in Mumbai, in India. And a lot of them live with their parents, but it's almost in part of growing up in a way, because now they help take care of their parents. And that–it's almost like that's the most grown up thing they can do, you know?
So interesting. I, I, you know, it's part of why we were interested in this subject is it's tricky to wrap my head around it, because so much of it does seem so much around cultural norms as to whether moving out is something that makes you feel super independent or whether taking care of your family is a sign of being grown up.
Yves Leung:
Yeah, I agree. No, completely. I agree. Um, I think it's, especially when, um, when your parents are older–so now that my parents are, I think, in their sixties, seventies. So there comes a lot of issues around health that, uh, oftentimes I have to bring them to the doctors for medical appointments.
Saleem Reshamwala:
Yeah.
Yves Leung:
Because the nurses, they speak so fast, I couldn't even catch up. Like me, I couldn't even catch up. So, I feel sometimes it's really your presence there.
'Cause to me, I think, um, one part of me has this very traditional Chinese, family-oriented value where I think your parents, um, it's not about how much money you give them. You know, or, or some attention, some text, uh, WhatsApp messages. It's, it's more than that.
Saleem Reshamwala:
You know, I feel like in the U.S., it's pretty safe to say that there can be a stigma about moving home. Right? It's like a trope in movies, like a, a guy who has to move home with his parents. Why do you think there's a stigma around living with parents in certain cultures?
Yves Leung:
I think this is more an issue in the states, especially because, you know, people are expected to leave home after college. And that's why this, this whole stigma or this contrast of you having to move back to your homeland, it makes people feel that you are, you failed, uh, at work, you know?
Saleem Reshamwala:
Hm.
Yves Leung:
But then I, honestly, I don't think… I think this person when, when he or she is really experiencing this so-called failure, of course family it's, it's always the place that he should turn to. And here, in Hong Kong, I think this stigma is still there. It's just that it has become this reality that of course, because the price is still high outside. So you live with the, with your parents.
But then to me, as a Chinese, I always feel that it's very weird to, to see people from the states only go back home during Thanksgiving, Christmas, like twice in a year. I mean, even for me, if I'm not living with my parents, I'm sure I'm gonna see them every weekend, at, at least once.
Saleem Reshamwala:
Since you have this positive view,what advice would you have for someone who is about to move home and maybe is not from a culture where it’s super normalized and is trying to figure it out… What, what tips or wisdom have you gained from going through it?
Yves Leung:
I mean, everyone is trying to figure out their lives, so, so I think I'll rather give advice to people around him or her not to judge. I mean, this world, it's cruel enough, I would say. So if you are, you know, friend of him or her, give them support. Like, why are you judging them? Of course the stigma is, is there, it exists, but then it doesn't mean that you should reinforce this. So I think, honestly, for the person who decides to whether, you know, coming back, living with their parents, I think, no pressure. Do whatever you want with your life. It's it's your life. It's not another’s life.
Saleem Reshamwala (VO):
Is the person moving home immature or kind of flexing their maturity by switching roles and taking care of their elders? Are they losing their privacy or fixing their work life balance? Or some other interesting combination?
Without understanding the cultural and social context, I might just not understand what a number really means. So that’s something we’re gonna keep coming back to, that context. Until then, like Yves said, the world is cruel enough. Do what you want with your life, y’all.
Am I Normal is part of the TED Audio Collective. This special series is hosted by me, Saleem Reshamwala. This episode was produced by Daphne Chen and edited by Sara Nics. Our team includes JoAnn DeLuna, Constanza Gallardo, Michelle Quint, Banban Cheng, Roxanne Hai Lash, and Jimmy Gutierrez.
Jennifer Nam is our researcher and fact checker. Original theme song by Sasami. Sarah Bruguiere is our mix engineer. And huge thanks, of course, to Mona Chalabi, for bringing me on this data scavenger hunt.