Jay Goltz

Wood River, IL, United States

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Jay Goltz
Posted over 3 years ago
Morality is better informed by science than it is by religion
"Your quote proves absolutely nothing" - What is sad is that you are blinded by atheism. You as well as all the others that think that this reality came into existence from nothing and by nothing. Just an accident that life is able to occur and that you deny anything that would posit a God . What is also sad is your unwillingness to follow evidence. That although many highly credited historians, from left to right, admit that John's Gospel was dated within 30-40 years after Jesus's crucifixion you will not accept it. But again, you would not know the truth because you hate the truth. C. Hitchens, Dawkins, and Harris are also blind and have all debated and lost when it comes to morality and God's existence. Never have they come up with why God does not exist nor will they ever. God does exist and again I say, you are blind not to know this. I do not say you are blind to insult you but to make sure you know that this is what Jesus said: “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains." - The truth is right in front of you and you do not see it. In fact the opposite, you think I am blind. How unfortunate. One thing is certain that we can agree on and that is death. What happens the second after our last breath? We will find out sooner or later. Until then, I hope that you continue to seek all sides of truth and that God reveals himself to you. I say all this out of love and not hate. Because, if Jesus is literally everything that he said he was, I would want you and everyone to know and believe in him. Wouldn't you?
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Jay Goltz
Posted over 3 years ago
Morality is better informed by science than it is by religion
@Matthieu: Well the type of slavery that is in the Bible - what I believe to be the word of God, does not support slavery that it against the will of another person, but is not all against indentured servitude etc.... That Bible teaches that all men were created equal under God but it is what we do with this freedom that separates us. And @Phil Thanks for posting that quote from James Madison. Very insightful actually. I wonder if the U.S. has stepped over the "Great Barrier" the he spoke of. Looks like this post is going to end soon but it was a pleasure speaking with you all on these challenging topics.
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Jay Goltz
Posted over 3 years ago
Morality is better informed by science than it is by religion
The philosopher of science Michael Ruse wrote: "The position of the modern evolutionist … is that humans have an awareness of morality … because such an awareness is of biological worth. Morality is a biological adaptation no less than are hands and feet and teeth. …Considered as a rationally justifiable set of claims about an objective something, ethics is illusory. I appreciate that when somebody says ‘Love thy neighbor as thyself,’ they think they are referring above and beyond themselves. … Nevertheless, … such reference is truly without foundation. Morality is just an aid to survival and reproduction, … and any deeper meaning is illusory." Was he mistaken when he wrote this?
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Jay Goltz
Posted over 3 years ago
Morality is better informed by science than it is by religion
Oh and I apologize for an implicit assumption that you may live in the U.S. or only read U.S. history on slavery. I said that because many people relate slavery to the type that happened in the south of the U.S. (Which is forced labor etc...) I enjoy our conversation though! Keeps us thinkin' :)
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Jay Goltz
Posted over 3 years ago
Morality is better informed by science than it is by religion
I have to agree with you that ownership against someones will is immoral slavery and should not be practiced (it is similar to kidnapping). But not all of slavery existed in this way. For example lets say that you and your best friend went out to eat at a restaurant far away from town. You both sit down and order a delicious meal and eat it with much joy. After eating, the waiter brings you the bill which you expected. Only this time, both of you forgot your wallet and tell the waiter that you are unable to pay for your meal. The waiter says, “No problem! We have a load of dishes in the back that need washing. If you wash all of these dishes, we will call it even for the meal. What do you think?” Would you think that this is a fair deal? This is similar to if someone loaned you money and you could not repay them, what should you do? The moral thing to do is to either pay them back or give them something of value (could be goods or manual labor) in order to square the deal. Otherwise, you take and reap the benefits of what was given to you and the other person suffers. Would that be fair?
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Jay Goltz
Posted over 3 years ago
Morality is better informed by science than it is by religion
Concerning what you said about the U.S. meant to be secular - What did the Declaration of Independence mean when it said, ".....for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." ??? Most of everyone that signed this important landmark document were Christian or at least believed in a "Creator" as was written about. Therefore I am wanting to learn more of what you were speaking about concerning secularism. Thanks again Phil! You seem to be a very nice person, regardless of our difference of beliefs, and I hope that you do not mind conversing with me either. Have a great one!
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Jay Goltz
Posted over 3 years ago
Morality is better informed by science than it is by religion
It is called understanding context Jason, not rationalization. You probably wouldn't fully know what I am talking about being that you had to add in the comment "if he ever existed" when referring to Jesus being a real person. His existence as a real person is a fact of history written about by many historians; believers and non-believers. Here is something you probably have never read before: “To sum up, modern critical methods fail to support the 'Christ-myth' theory. It has 'again and again been answered and annihilated by first-rank scholars.' In recent yeas 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non-historicity of Jesus' – or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in diposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary.” Grant (1977) 200
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Jay Goltz
Posted over 3 years ago
Morality is better informed by science than it is by religion
Matthieu Miossec: Matthieu you may want to study the history of slavery from someone taking into account more than just how it was in the U.S. with african americans. You may be surprised to find that so called "slavery" is not all inclusively immoral - rather immoral slavery is immoral. This is why a historiographical approach to such issues is important to gather in the multiple sides, theories, and writer's presuppositions etc... For instance, there were those persons that indebted themselves and servitude was how they paid the debt. Some times servitude was mutually agreed upon in order for the servant to have shelter, food, etc.. and they were even allowed to raise families at their masters house. There are also many written testimonies of how the "slaves" loved their master like family and visa versa. And when I say master, its not some hard brute with a whip cracking the backs of his servants. In this case, the master would be harsh, abusive, and hateful. These have never been acceptable moral qualities; even in the past. Therefore we have never justified abuse and harsh treatment of fellow man so how can you say that we have evolved? The only way to justify slavery, as they did, is if you are the majority power and abuse that power at other peoples expense for your gain; which of course is immoral and the result of subjective thinking.
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Jay Goltz
Posted over 3 years ago
Morality is better informed by science than it is by religion
Russel: I will re-state what you commented because it is a fair assessment: "Few and far between are the Christians who follow the teaching of Christ! i.e. Turn the other cheek , Don't cast the 1st stone, judge not,. Love your enemy. The teachings are a wonderful foundation for morality... however they bear little relationship to what you will hear in a modern so called Christian church." This unfortunately is true of many so called church going Christians. I have personal stories that I could even share that would also fit in with this description. Like those that attend church for image or status etc... and who use it for their means. However Christianity is a living relationship with Jesus who lived and died 2000 years ago. If one intentionally follows and believes in him, their actions should be reflective of their beliefs. Jesus taught to be slow to anger, eager to love, and quick to make peace. Obviously this is harder said than done as we have seen; otherwise we would have much more peace in this world today.