Borna Novak

Webteh, Zagreb
Zagreb, Croatia

About Borna

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Croatian, English

Comments & conversations

Noface
Borna Novak
Posted over 1 year ago
As population increases and voting rates remain extremely low, is it realistic to maintain a capitalistic democratic government economicaly?
Your post is correct on some accounts even though I'm not 100% certain on the relevance of it for the discussion, the ruling body of athens was not quite the elite according to wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy#Citizenship_in_Athens - this article explicitly states that material wealth was not a consideration - just being male, athenian, not slave and passed obligatory military training. Can you cite your source? And what's the relevance? Surely you aren't saying that athenian model worked just because women weren't allowed to vote? :o)
Noface
Borna Novak
Posted over 1 year ago
As population increases and voting rates remain extremely low, is it realistic to maintain a capitalistic democratic government economicaly?
No Bryan, Athenian democracy wasn't better then what we have today just because it was first ;) I consider it better for many today's use cases because it dealt with officials corruption in a pretty interesting way. Think about it: 1. how many senates of the world would be better, how many would be worse of if they had a randomly chosen 200 members of the electorate instead of the "cream members of top political parties" 2. how corruptible would random-chosen members of the population be in their governing duties if they knew that in one year they would be back in their old life and answer to their friends, families, work colleagues and neighbors? This principle had a couple more interesting consequences - such as more interest in politics for the average joe and more drive to make sure everybody is as educated as they can be. I'm not saying "we should all go athens-style" - we shouldn't - introducing that kind of responsibility on members of a nation that has consistently destroyed its education like the US of A would be a disaster, but it may be a place to draw inspiration from for some other parts of the world
Noface
Borna Novak
Posted over 1 year ago
As population increases and voting rates remain extremely low, is it realistic to maintain a capitalistic democratic government economicaly?
That's a hard statement Rodrigo :) And a false one, I'll just throw a couple names by wit that might fit the bill of "dictator with integrity" Joseph II of Habsburg, Suleiman I of Otoman Empire, James I of England, Cyrus II of Persia, Frederic the Great of Prussia, Peter the Great of Russia, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk of Turkey, ....
Noface
Borna Novak
Posted over 1 year ago
What are the alternatives to helping other people?
It's OK Esteban :) it was a loaded question and this actually what I was aiming for when I asked it: > I am happy to learn from the interaction regardless of being proven right or being proven wrong, either way I learn what be right. and it touches the point I was trying to make to Ramon perfectly from different angle, with investing yourself and accepting both outcomes as a positive thing you demonstrate the kind of mindset I was explaining to Ramon, thank you :)
Noface
Borna Novak
Posted over 1 year ago
As population increases and voting rates remain extremely low, is it realistic to maintain a capitalistic democratic government economicaly?
Thing is.. There are alternatives. Dictatorships work a lot better then democracy in the long run when the dictator is person of integrity, but the risks of getting the wrong one are all too known. And "democracy" is a very broad term by itself: what we usually conceive as "democracy" is in fact "electoral democracy", a legacy from the Roman empire in which the senate was conceived so the oligarchy could make mutually satisfying decisions - not to enforce the will of the people and this is what we see today. Actual democracy in Athens did not have an exclusive body into which you could not enter without the approval of the oligarchy structures, in Athens random people were chosen for the disruptive and stressful duty of making operative decisions for the rest of the nation and after 1 year they would be returned back into their old positions - carpenters, fishermen... Actual democracy worked like jury duty - ruling the nation was not something you wished for to get famous or rich or powerful, it was a duty to the people that was imposed on you. Long term decisions were made by popular vote of all the population - we have the technology today to do this at scale btw, but the the oligarchy would not like this one bit. The best ruling system I have so far seen in practice (in a virtual community heh) involved a despot with absolute power and a democratic structure beneath him, the despot rarely ever took action and only to set long term development goals, settle disputes and force people to behave when institutional corruption would start appearing, he kind of behaved like this Lao Tzu quote http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/l/laotzu121709.html Now only if there were a way to export that....