Tom Budgen

Someone is shy

Tom hasn't completed a profile. Should we look for some other people?

Comments & conversations

Noface
Tom Budgen
Posted about 2 years ago
The Existence of God
(Cont;d)... this is my last one.. Christ claimed to reveal God, which means He obviously attested to His existence in the first place. If God became man, then you would expect him to: 1. Have an unusual entrance into this life (i.e. the Virgin birth - read the early portions of Matt and Luke) 2. Be without sin - John 8:46 and a whole host of other verses 3. Manifest the supernatural in the form of miracles - which were recorded by eyewitnesses (i.e. the Gospels) 4. Have an acute sense of difference - even the Koran refers to him as the greatest above all, even the prophet Mohammed 5. Speak the greatest words ever spoken e.g. I am the way, the truth and the life; "never did a man speak the way this man speaks" (John 7:46) 6. Have a lasting and universal influence - again, millions of people believe in God through Christ across the world 7. Exercise power over death - He rose again from the dead. A true life historical fact. When someone seriously examines the evidence of Christ, and what he did and claimed, and the lasting impression he's had over 2000 years, the existence of God becomes a question that is immediately answered.
Noface
Tom Budgen
Posted about 2 years ago
The Existence of God
(Cont'd) I challenge anyone to consider the person and claims of Christ. Not one recognised religious leader, not Moses, Paul, Buddha, Mohammed, have ever claimed to be God. That is, apart from Jesus Christ. Christ is the ONLY leader who has ever claimed to be deity and the only individual who has convinced a great proportion of the world that he is God. He claimed to be God, He received worship as God and accepted it (Matthew 8:2; John 9:35-39), was affirmed to be God by at least 400 people - including Paul, John the Baptist, Titus, Peter the apostle (and all of them in fact). He claimed he could forgive sins, to be immutable, to be "life eternal" (John 14:6), ascribed himself as Jehovah (which was the reason he was condemned and crucified by the Jews). Either Christ was telling the truth or he wans't. Either He knew his claims were false (in which case he was a liar, a hypocrite, a demon and a fool) or didn't know they were false (in which case he was sincerely deluded and a lunatic) or... His claims were true. Which leaves people with only 2 options: accept or reject them.
Noface
Tom Budgen
Posted about 2 years ago
The Existence of God
Science is a way of knowing about the natural world. It is LIMITED to explaining the natural world through natural causes. Science can say nothing about the supernatural. Whether God exists or not is a question about which science must be neutral. You cannot "prove" God's existence by natural testable, verifiable and falsifiable established methods of natural science because, God, by very definition is someone who is supernatural! One can hypothesise about God's existence: If God does in fact exist the proof will lie in the consistency of what is hypothesized with human experience and observation. The consistency? The millions and millions of testimonies of men and women from all walks of life demonstrate the unity of Christian experience. While each one embraces a different background, profession or culture, each points to the SAME OBJECT as the source of new power for transformed lives - Jesus Christ. Multiply these testimonies by the hundreds and thousands and you begin to approach something like the impact Christ has had on the world in the past 2000 years. So... what is the objective reality or basis for the subjective experiences - a changed, utterly transformed life? Answer: the person of Christ and his resurrection. How many others have had this same subjective experience? Well... the evidence is overwhelming. Truly MILLIONS from all backgrounds, nationalities, professions, cultures have seen their own lives elevated to new levels of peace and joy by turning their lives over to Christ. To say that it is a delusion, then.. Wow!!! what a powerful delusion!
Noface
Tom Budgen
Posted about 2 years ago
The Existence of God
To refute: 1 Samuel 15:3: - The Amalekites, a nomadic people of the desert were already marked people because of their unjustified attack of on Israel in the wilderness after leaving Egypt. As a result, the Amelekites were doomed to annihiliation by God (Exodus 17:14; Deuteronomy 25:19) but it would not be immediate. Here God commanded Saul to destroy them as a severe judgment on those who would destroy His own people. Psalm 135:8 - The Lord killed the Egyptian first born because the Egyptians, years earlier, had issued a holocaust (effectively) as a way of keeping the Jewish population down. Pharoah ordered the firstborn of the Jews to be destroyed with sword. God executed divine vengeance against the Egyptian firstborn, Psalm 137 - Babylon had carried the Jewish people away into slavery. Again, God was going to act for His people. This isnt a huge blind spot. The blind spot on your part is not knowing the context of these verses. Jihad is totally man made and man driven with no authority from God on high. Jihad is performed in the belief killing will result in eternal salvation. The Bible teaches no such thing. Christianity does not make people "accept dumb things" - because personally I cannot rejoice in what my mind rejects. Christ commanded us to love the lord your God with all your heart and with all your MIND" - Matt 22:37. When he said exercise faith, it was not a "blind faith" that causes "people to accept dumb things" but rather an "intelligent faith". Paul said, "I know whom I have believed" (2 Tim 1:12) Faith in Christianity is based on evidence. It is a reasonable faith. Faith in the Christian sense goes beyond reason but never against it. The evidence? Consider the claims of Christ.
Noface
Tom Budgen
Posted about 2 years ago
The Existence of God
This line of thinking is based on the assumption mankind is INNOCENT. Man is created, at the behest of this creator god who then, out of the blue, decides to rain fire and brimstone, orders genocide because he wants to, and basically wants to brainwash people. Thus: God is a cruel tyrant and horrible taskmaster who is evil and loves to play with his creatures as though they were ants. This is rubbish. The Bible teaches God created this world and universe out of nothing by the power of His Word, in the space of 6 days and all very good. It was perfect creation. No death. No suffering. Man was created in the image of God - that is to say, a living soul, in knowledge of God, righteousness, and holiness with dominion over the creatures. He entered into a Covenant with man forbidding him to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, upon the pain of death, as a test of probation to Man. Man rebelled. He disobeyed God's Covenant and violated it. The Covenant was made not just with Adam but his whole posterity. All mankind, descending from our First Parents, by ordinary generation. Therefore we're all treated as having sinned in Adam and fallen in Adam because God reckons that judgment to ALL by virtue of the Covenant he made with Adam. We are all rooted in Adam (we come from Adam who rebelled), so God in his righteous judgement regards mankind as EVIL... We're treated as oathbreakers; violaters. So... coming to the flood, mankind was full of evil. The whole world was filled with violence: "And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth" (Genesis 6:12). "The imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" - Genesis 6:5. God send the flood to destroy the wickedness of man. It wasn't "housekeeping" - like some trivial bits of dust. Man was evil, so God destroyed man, save for Noah and his family.
Noface
Tom Budgen
Posted about 2 years ago
The Existence of God
It's unique in its survival and persecution... Take Voltaire, the noted French critic who died in 1778... he said that in 100 years from his time Christianity would be swept away from existence and passed into history. But what has happened? Voltaire has passed into history, and only 50 years after his death the Geneva Bible Society used his press and house to produce stacks of Bibles! Ironic... No other book has been so chopped, knifed, sifted, scrutinised, vilified, hated. What book on philosophy or science has been subject to such a mass attack as the Bible? with such scepticism and venom? and yet... the Bible is still loved by millions, studied by millions and read by millions... Muhammed never once pointed to any prophecies of the coming of Muhammed hundreds of years before his birth. If I can quote Philip Schaff (the Person of Christ)... "This Jesus of Nazareth, without money and arms, conquered more millions than Alexander, Ceasar, Mohammed, and Napoleon; without science and learning, he shed more light on things human and divine that all philosophers and scholars combined; without the eloquence of schools he spoke such words of life never spoken before or since... He set more pens in motion, and furnished themes for more sermons, orations, discussions, learned volumes, works of art, and songs of praise than the whole army of great men of ancient and modern times..." Think of the effect the Bible has had on secular literature... evoked a HUGE volume of literature.. my own opinion is if you are intelligent, IF you are searching for the truth, read the book that has drawn more attention than any other. True, doesn't prove it's THE TRUTH. But you'd seriously consider its weight and the claims its makes
Noface
Tom Budgen
Posted about 2 years ago
The Existence of God
I wonder what it was that made you think otherwise? I agree... being unique does not prove the Bible is true. But it is VERY UNLIKE the Koran. The Bible was written over a 1600 year span, over 60 generations, by 40 plus authors from every walk of life including kings, peasants, philosophers, fishermen, poets, statesmen, scholars etc. Written in different places (Moses in the wilderness, Paul inside prison walls, John on the isle of Patmos), at different times, different moods, written across 3 continents - Africa, Asia, Europe. The Bible, at first sight appears to be a collection of literature - mainly Jewish. But I can tell you... enquire further and the writers wrote in various lands, and were separated from each other by hundreds of years and miles, belonging to the most diverse walks of life. Written in 2 different languages, by people that included - as I said, kings, herdsmen, soldiers, legislators, fishermen, statesmen, courtiers, priests and prophets, a tentmaking rabbi, a physician (Luke)... For all that, the Bible is not simply an anthology - there is a unity that binds the whole together. An anthology is compiled by an anthologist, but no anthologist compiled the Bible. What is this unity? This unfolding story that progresses as the books progress? God's redemption of man. Take just 10 authors, all from one walk of life, one generation, one place, one time, one mood, one continent, one language and one controversial subject... would all the authors agree?
Noface
Tom Budgen
Posted about 2 years ago
The Existence of God
If He's unthinkable, how does he have the ability to map out our lives? What do yo mean by "religion"? I agree that pretty much every religion apart from what the Bible says is man-made. I personally think Christianity is not a religion. But a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.
Noface
Tom Budgen
Posted about 2 years ago
The Existence of God
...continuing on... When people say "science disproves God" I never know what they mean by that. How do you define "science"? For me there's two types. One is operational science i.e. the things that are observable, repeatable, capable of sensory assessment - good observation makes good science and all that; then "origin science" where scientists take a uniform assumption that because things develop in a certain way in a certain time then it must have always been like that. Evolution and Creationism are explanatory models at best, of course. We can't observe creation nor can we observe macro-evolution happening, either. For the Christian, he has in a way a "time machine" - because he believes God created everything which has been recorded in Scripture. That is MY starting point in thinking and it allows me to interpret facts. Facts are not neutral - it's how you interpret them. Your starting point is the Bible is a myth. And being a myth it cannot be tested legitimately by operational science (which of course a myth can't because its fiction) therefore a God must be a myth so you cannot accept a Creationist argument. Your starting point is altogether different from mine. But is the Bible a myth? The Bible has endured for centuries, is unique, contains historical facts, etc. It's stood the test of time. It paints mankind in a state of sin - (who would write that about their own kind?) and points to salvation outside of man's reach. Hardly the work of men really. God is not a magic being. He is a spirit. And He revealed himself to mankind in the real life person of Jesus Christ. His existence is backed up by historical sources, not just the Bible.
Noface
Tom Budgen
Posted about 2 years ago
The Existence of God
Are all presuppositions equal? Depends on what it is you're assuming, I guess. Some are more fanciful than others of course! As I said, a belief in God is (personally anyway) perfectly rational. I cannot accept the idea that in the beginning there was nothing, and nothing happened to the nothing to create some sort of bang/expansion and over billions of years we're all here. I think that is ludicrous. The Bible teaches God created original animal kinds. So there was a horse kind, wolf kind, bird kind, lion kind - you get the idea. Contained within each "kind" or family, was the potential for great diversification and variation. Thus, from the original wolf kind we get all sorts of dogs. The diversity and variation is amazing. As a Creationist, I believe in micro-evolution - that is to say, variation WITHIN a species. Macro-evolution requires a complete species change - i.e. dinosaur into bird; a dog evolving into a leopard, etc. So when one uses "evolution" yes, I believe in variation within a species, but not outside a species. Underneath a dog is really a wolf kind, albeit with great diversification. So in a sense yes there was an original "parent". Using the Bible as a basis, God created natural laws i.e. gravity. The physics of how things work, natural processes such as grass growing - of course that is natural because there is a natural law. I don't attribute its growth to some "magic being" making it grow. I would add God upholds those laws of nature.