Jan 8 2013: I'll research more about Lincoln and his decision with Fort Sumter. I remember slightly but its a blur to me.
The assignment was given back a while ago actually and my teacher said she liked some points but I could have went further. I guess I didn't satisfy her with enough connections between my reasons. In class before we handed in our essays, she gave us a couple of deep causes for the Civil War that was written in someones essay. I didn't want to feel obligated to use all of them but I guess that's what she had wanted.
Sorry for the late reply and I posted a summary not too long ago. I hope it makes sense of everything that was discussed in this debate but I apologize once again. I've been busy with APUSH work and haven't had much time to come back onto Ted.
Jan 8 2013: True, but the choices of a lot of people would have to change in order to make the Civil War inevitable. For example the south's zealous desire for secession, Steven Douglas's choice to pass the Kansas Act for the desire of constructing a railroad passing through Kansas from Idaho and or Lincoln's choice to be more lenient with the south. Many things can be inevitable but I guess what my teacher intended to ask was what made it seem so inevitable. But I still agree with the points you made. It's hard to state or even know the true full, absolute cause of anything.
Jan 8 2013: I was very interested to read about the 1819 Coup d'etat relating to America but I haven't had the time to full find an article about it. However, I'll eventually find the time to find it and read about the anti-federalist and Federalist papers, including the Coup d'eta in 1819.
Lincoln definitely didn't want any secession which would help prove the inevitability of the civil war. Unless Lincoln had a sudden change in mind. Also, even with the inventions of better machinery and tools for agricultural jobs, would they still abandon slavery? Industrial business leaders were able to make huge profits even without slaves, especially in the south, by lowering the wages of their workers.
Jan 8 2013: I highly agree with your point, that wealth and economic power is a huge cause behind many wars. Without economic power, nations would lack the substances needed to preserve their power. Also, I had a debate a while ago with my friends on "religious wars" and their justly cause for completing such a honorable and holy deed. Wars in general do not live up to the justly purposes they claim.
Jan 8 2013: I liked how you replaced the s's with $ in "Textbooks alone would be a ma$$ive undertaking.", unless that was unintentional. Either way, I agree with your point and see where you're coming from on how Lincoln desired a more centralized government. He emphasized the reunification of the Union and keeping that bond tightly knitted even if it requires the removal or acceptance of certain state's rights that are shamed upon in society.
Jan 8 2013: The fact that people resist such knowledge is quite puzzling, don't you think? For some reason many believe "ignorance is bliss."
I agree with your second paragraph as well. History is practically all written by the "victors" as Howard Zinn states it, and is probably written all wrong. We can't know for sure what exactly happened and that fear of not being able to know or understand it is frightening. That's possibly why so many people tolerate and become so gullible to what we are told because we don't know what else to believe in.
Additionally, we should also question everything. We should always remain hungry to know more and to ask about everything. We shouldn't fear the notion of not knowing something or to not be able to find answers, we should accept what we've achieved so far and enjoy the curiosities we're capable of making.
Jan 8 2013: Highly agreed. To answer your question I believe middle schoolers or at least high schoolers should be able to have a certain level of knowledge where they understand more than whats required. Students these days are given test that evaluate their averages which permits them to pass and advance to the next grade. But the subjects and questions on these test are sometimes irrelevant to the actual knowledge students should learn. Students now only temporarily memorize what they need to know to fill in for the questions, rather than knowing and understanding the subject because that's their responsibility.
Jan 8 2013: "Text books that do not support accepted stories will not sell very well."
That is an utterly upsetting reality. If only the world didn't revolve around money and instead focused on the knowledge and development of students so they may excel to be able to comprehend better explanations of the full truth.
Jan 8 2013: On the issue of certain lessons being taught or not taught in early classes or in basic classes, I disappointingly realized, perhaps students truly aren't capable of learning such anomaly. There are many factors to why lessons taught in AP classes or College aren't taught in earlier classes, such as their determination and interest to learn the subject, their capability of comprehending certain amount of knowledge and the text books themselves, which dictate what should or should not be taught.
On another note, we are sadly in a society in which students are categorized and separated as "honor" students or as an average student, rather than a place where all students are pushed to be inspired to become successfully smart and to actually care about what they're doing. Now when most teachers or adults view students who don't care about school, or don’t bother to take that extra step to pass with a better grade than just a passing grade, they disregard them and walk away saying "let it be." I do not believe it’s always the teachers fault, or the school systems fault, but the students and their parents. If only parents would encourage their children and get them determined, then perhaps they would actually care to attempt to learn, to comprehend or to understand the lessons behind every class. It’s depressing that the students give such little devotion and care.
Before I begin to get non sequitur, I’ll conclude that there is simply many faults in education, pertaining to the dictating and restrictive textbooks to the careless students who don’t have the determination or capability to excel and learn something more than “basic education” (although basic education has already been dumbed down.)
Jan 8 2013: Hello Ted debaters, I apologize for not replying to many of your comments or if this debate hasn't been as lively as you all occasionally expect debates to be. I have been occupied lately with an immense amount of school work, but I will attempt to summarize and reply back to most of you before this conversation closes.
Anyhow, I read and saw a couple of very interesting perspectives about both questions. As my APUSH teacher says, matters usually should be argued to a certain extent. It's difficult to claim an argument to be completely true or false, and acknowledge it as the only correct perspective (especially without, in anyway, insulting or stubbornly disregarding the possibilities of other perspectives.) Therefore, we can't say what completely caused the Civil War; we can only state the factors that helped lead to the Civil War. Some argued that the war, like most conflicts in political history, was all about money. We can't say what Lincoln truly desired because we weren't there to read his mind. We can argue our points backed with documents, inauguration and actions passed by Lincoln and his cabinet, but we can never truly claim that's the complete truth. We are only capable of arguing how Lincoln was, to an extent, a dictator, or the Great Emancipator, or someone as vile as Hitler, or as the Savior of the Slaves. Hence, I must say that I agree with most of you, but only to an extent because if I didn't, then I wouldn't be any better than those who only believe in a single possible answer, such as claiming slavery is a cause and not an issue.
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A reply on Conversation: The True Cause of the American Civil War
The assignment was given back a while ago actually and my teacher said she liked some points but I could have went further. I guess I didn't satisfy her with enough connections between my reasons. In class before we handed in our essays, she gave us a couple of deep causes for the Civil War that was written in someones essay. I didn't want to feel obligated to use all of them but I guess that's what she had wanted.
Sorry for the late reply and I posted a summary not too long ago. I hope it makes sense of everything that was discussed in this debate but I apologize once again. I've been busy with APUSH work and haven't had much time to come back onto Ted.
A reply on Conversation: The True Cause of the American Civil War
A reply on Conversation: The True Cause of the American Civil War
Lincoln definitely didn't want any secession which would help prove the inevitability of the civil war. Unless Lincoln had a sudden change in mind. Also, even with the inventions of better machinery and tools for agricultural jobs, would they still abandon slavery? Industrial business leaders were able to make huge profits even without slaves, especially in the south, by lowering the wages of their workers.
A reply on Conversation: The True Cause of the American Civil War
A reply on Conversation: The True Cause of the American Civil War
A reply on Conversation: The True Cause of the American Civil War
I agree with your second paragraph as well. History is practically all written by the "victors" as Howard Zinn states it, and is probably written all wrong. We can't know for sure what exactly happened and that fear of not being able to know or understand it is frightening. That's possibly why so many people tolerate and become so gullible to what we are told because we don't know what else to believe in.
Additionally, we should also question everything. We should always remain hungry to know more and to ask about everything. We shouldn't fear the notion of not knowing something or to not be able to find answers, we should accept what we've achieved so far and enjoy the curiosities we're capable of making.
A reply on Conversation: The True Cause of the American Civil War
A reply on Conversation: The True Cause of the American Civil War
That is an utterly upsetting reality. If only the world didn't revolve around money and instead focused on the knowledge and development of students so they may excel to be able to comprehend better explanations of the full truth.
A comment on Conversation: The True Cause of the American Civil War
On another note, we are sadly in a society in which students are categorized and separated as "honor" students or as an average student, rather than a place where all students are pushed to be inspired to become successfully smart and to actually care about what they're doing. Now when most teachers or adults view students who don't care about school, or don’t bother to take that extra step to pass with a better grade than just a passing grade, they disregard them and walk away saying "let it be." I do not believe it’s always the teachers fault, or the school systems fault, but the students and their parents. If only parents would encourage their children and get them determined, then perhaps they would actually care to attempt to learn, to comprehend or to understand the lessons behind every class. It’s depressing that the students give such little devotion and care.
Before I begin to get non sequitur, I’ll conclude that there is simply many faults in education, pertaining to the dictating and restrictive textbooks to the careless students who don’t have the determination or capability to excel and learn something more than “basic education” (although basic education has already been dumbed down.)
A comment on Conversation: The True Cause of the American Civil War
Anyhow, I read and saw a couple of very interesting perspectives about both questions. As my APUSH teacher says, matters usually should be argued to a certain extent. It's difficult to claim an argument to be completely true or false, and acknowledge it as the only correct perspective (especially without, in anyway, insulting or stubbornly disregarding the possibilities of other perspectives.) Therefore, we can't say what completely caused the Civil War; we can only state the factors that helped lead to the Civil War. Some argued that the war, like most conflicts in political history, was all about money. We can't say what Lincoln truly desired because we weren't there to read his mind. We can argue our points backed with documents, inauguration and actions passed by Lincoln and his cabinet, but we can never truly claim that's the complete truth. We are only capable of arguing how Lincoln was, to an extent, a dictator, or the Great Emancipator, or someone as vile as Hitler, or as the Savior of the Slaves. Hence, I must say that I agree with most of you, but only to an extent because if I didn't, then I wouldn't be any better than those who only believe in a single possible answer, such as claiming slavery is a cause and not an issue.