Jan 26 2013: Thank you for sharing your veiwpoints on this very interesting topic. It seems that Africa is much different than south-east Asia. The tribal people here are more self-oriented and in many ways self-destructive.
As an American it was very difficult for me not to interfere in the local "ways of life." When I visit the local hospitals, I see that the main emergency is breathing problems. I can clearly see that this is due to the overabundance of smoking cigarettes and also because the people cook in their houses over an open fire with windows and doors closed to keep out the dogs.
Another situation is the use of polluted water. It is the national custom to throw trash and everything on the ground where the waterways become contaminated and drainage becomes blocked leading to flooding. Being a person who "knows better," I am confused by the term "Local Wisdom." The World Health Organization has studied these things and has offered simple solutions to increase health and the mortality rate of children. Hundreds of millions of dollars every year are given to help reduce poverty.
Yes, the world does need to understand that poverty is relative. $200 per year in one country might be the same as $200,000 in another. So to say that we must take people out of poverty, we need to be aware of their situation first. They may have no money, but they may be healthy and have a place to live.
I agree that we should not push our customs on other peoples, but what should we do about unheathly situations? What about areas of oppression? Should we educate people about corruption and the benefits of law and order?
In Papua, Indonesia, the gold mine is run by an industrialized nation while the natives still wear traditional grass skirts and coconut shells over their "privates." There are hostilities continuously between the local tribes. The fights are usually over land or pigs or women. Many times they just schedule wars that last for a couple days and then they stop and go home.
Jan 26 2013: From my experiences Michael said it clearly 4 days ago: "Poverty could be eradicated if humans really acted like a real family, but..."
And, by the way, there are many people who barter here. To pay for better education, people will pay with chickens or rice or labor. (Yes we do make them pay because it then becomes valuable to them even though I am happy to work for free.)
Jan 26 2013: I live in a country that is full of poverty. The government takes hundreds of millions of US dollars from other countries to fight poverty. Money is given directly to the people. Housing developments are built and people are "transmigrated". The developments are soon abandoned. The aid to this country has increased in the last 10 years and the level of corruption has increased with it. 95% of the people go to school that is paid for by the government, and yet in the last 20 years the poverty level has not changed.
I agree with Gareth and Mandela that education is the weapon of choice. It must be a quality education that promotes respect and responsibility. As a participant in the education system in this "developing" country, I not only see that there is no educating going on, but that most everything in this "education" system is corruption. (I could document it but it does no good.)
Mike said it correctly,
" In every country there is poverty. Governments can not cure poverty. If they could, it would have been done long ago. They can cause poverty, they can maintain people in a level of poverty as to provide political support as you have noted.
"People are impoverished because they do not know to create wealth or they are prevented by outside forces. Capitalism is the easiest way for an individual to create wealth. He does this by taking his stuff transforming it to something that others want and exchanging it for what he needs. He gains wealth through his efforts. It's really simple. The problem is that most people in poverty have lost the desire to escape, they live in despair and I know of no answer to that problem."
I can see that the government wants the people in ignorance so that it can continue taking money that is intended to make the peoples lives better. The natives in the villages who use capitalism are actually making a better life for themselves and others.
I also see the money taken from infrastructure which will help increase capitalism also.
What you are describing is a Glasser Quality School classroom. Here is the main website for the book "The Quality School: Managing Students without Coercion" and "The Competency Based Classroom."
Just "up the hill" from you in Angwin, is Pacific Union College. Several years ago my good friend introduced that school to Dr. Glasser and I think they are teaching teachers the Quality School methods. You might go up there and ask who is teaching Glasser at the school. I have been out of the country for a while now and am not current on what they are doing. However, if you ask the people at wglasser.com for more information, they will be happy to help. There are several Glasser Quality Schools around the US and around the globe. I am here in Indonesia working on a Quality School. It is extremely difficult here because the people's mindset is not really interested in education. In my classroom I try to teach two things: respect and responsibility. With these I also teach choices. Indonesian do not believe in choices. They do what they are told and very little else.
Using the Quality School methods I am slowly helping them learn that responsibility is success. They all want to be successful. I let my students know that they get to choose what grade they get in the class. When I give assignments in class, many of them choose not to do them, and I relate that to their choice to be successful in class. When the student does his assignment, I congradulate him on being successful and they are happy to be successful. This is very strange to the "education" system and to students who are used to being told what to do, or else. I am actually seeing success. I teach the 11 and 12th graders, but I should teach this to the lower grades.
Here are two videos that my students like to watch:
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A comment on Conversation: We of the industrialised countries have a tremendous amount to gain from the tribal peoples of the world, concerning problems of our era.
As an American it was very difficult for me not to interfere in the local "ways of life." When I visit the local hospitals, I see that the main emergency is breathing problems. I can clearly see that this is due to the overabundance of smoking cigarettes and also because the people cook in their houses over an open fire with windows and doors closed to keep out the dogs.
Another situation is the use of polluted water. It is the national custom to throw trash and everything on the ground where the waterways become contaminated and drainage becomes blocked leading to flooding. Being a person who "knows better," I am confused by the term "Local Wisdom." The World Health Organization has studied these things and has offered simple solutions to increase health and the mortality rate of children. Hundreds of millions of dollars every year are given to help reduce poverty.
Yes, the world does need to understand that poverty is relative. $200 per year in one country might be the same as $200,000 in another. So to say that we must take people out of poverty, we need to be aware of their situation first. They may have no money, but they may be healthy and have a place to live.
I agree that we should not push our customs on other peoples, but what should we do about unheathly situations? What about areas of oppression? Should we educate people about corruption and the benefits of law and order?
In Papua, Indonesia, the gold mine is run by an industrialized nation while the natives still wear traditional grass skirts and coconut shells over their "privates." There are hostilities continuously between the local tribes. The fights are usually over land or pigs or women. Many times they just schedule wars that last for a couple days and then they stop and go home.
A comment on Conversation: What can governments do to end poverty in their countries? Is a solution possible under capitalism?
And, by the way, there are many people who barter here. To pay for better education, people will pay with chickens or rice or labor. (Yes we do make them pay because it then becomes valuable to them even though I am happy to work for free.)
A comment on Conversation: What can governments do to end poverty in their countries? Is a solution possible under capitalism?
I agree with Gareth and Mandela that education is the weapon of choice. It must be a quality education that promotes respect and responsibility. As a participant in the education system in this "developing" country, I not only see that there is no educating going on, but that most everything in this "education" system is corruption. (I could document it but it does no good.)
Mike said it correctly,
" In every country there is poverty. Governments can not cure poverty. If they could, it would have been done long ago. They can cause poverty, they can maintain people in a level of poverty as to provide political support as you have noted.
"People are impoverished because they do not know to create wealth or they are prevented by outside forces. Capitalism is the easiest way for an individual to create wealth. He does this by taking his stuff transforming it to something that others want and exchanging it for what he needs. He gains wealth through his efforts. It's really simple. The problem is that most people in poverty have lost the desire to escape, they live in despair and I know of no answer to that problem."
I can see that the government wants the people in ignorance so that it can continue taking money that is intended to make the peoples lives better. The natives in the villages who use capitalism are actually making a better life for themselves and others.
I also see the money taken from infrastructure which will help increase capitalism also.
A comment on Conversation: How do we get students to adopt specific classroom procedures without the use of negative consequences (punishment) or rewards?
What you are describing is a Glasser Quality School classroom. Here is the main website for the book "The Quality School: Managing Students without Coercion" and "The Competency Based Classroom."
http://www.wglasser.com/the-glasser-approach/quality-schools
Just "up the hill" from you in Angwin, is Pacific Union College. Several years ago my good friend introduced that school to Dr. Glasser and I think they are teaching teachers the Quality School methods. You might go up there and ask who is teaching Glasser at the school. I have been out of the country for a while now and am not current on what they are doing. However, if you ask the people at wglasser.com for more information, they will be happy to help. There are several Glasser Quality Schools around the US and around the globe. I am here in Indonesia working on a Quality School. It is extremely difficult here because the people's mindset is not really interested in education. In my classroom I try to teach two things: respect and responsibility. With these I also teach choices. Indonesian do not believe in choices. They do what they are told and very little else.
Using the Quality School methods I am slowly helping them learn that responsibility is success. They all want to be successful. I let my students know that they get to choose what grade they get in the class. When I give assignments in class, many of them choose not to do them, and I relate that to their choice to be successful in class. When the student does his assignment, I congradulate him on being successful and they are happy to be successful. This is very strange to the "education" system and to students who are used to being told what to do, or else. I am actually seeing success. I teach the 11 and 12th graders, but I should teach this to the lower grades.
Here are two videos that my students like to watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5voG3GyaIOY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGuT9-_Y5J4
Most of all, have fun!