Sep 3 2012: All the Gods you mentioned are restricted by mathematics. We are within finite. Which one of suggested finite Gods created finite. As my whole arguement is from the initial post till now, finite is within the infinite but can not be the other way around.
So which one of these finite Gods is infinite?
Sep 2 2012: We already agree that the number 1 has infinite possibilities and can explain itself and every other type of number in existence. There is no other number that exists.
The misunderstanding of infinite stems from most thinking there could be multiple infinites. Truth is only 1 infinite can exist that everything else is a part of and not Seperate.
In my terminology 1=God. A 100% complete being with infinite possibilities; the Omni.
If God is multiple Gods, or as you state an infinite amount of Gods (any more than 1), then could you really have an infinite? It would not be all encompassing because a Seperately unique infinite would exist.
You do not have to call it God, but we already know thanks to Cantor the infinite possibilities of the only number; this is quite easily seen even with our restricted perception.
The same rules also apply to beyond the brackets.
If 1 is complete (100%) and can explain itself and every other numerical possibility,
Then how can we have any other number?
Now let me ask this religiously,
If God is complete (100%) and can explain himself and every other created possibility,
Then how can we have any other God?
Sep 2 2012: That is exactly my point. Cantor said there is brackets around the infinite and that there are an infinite amount of possibilities within the number 1.
You are just agreeing with me and rejecting Cantors concept of the infinite.
The only possibility of the actual Infinite is outside of finite, then 1, with the infinite possibilities is the infinite in totality.
In all honesty it doesn't bother me if you accept heaven and hell, based on the dicissions you made within the finite, as long as you can see where the mistake of the greatest mathematician in recent history is, I've been successful in promoting my findings.
Aug 28 2012: I apologies for the numerical response
1. Mathematics is restricted by the number 1. As I stated before all we have in our numeric system. It either exists, even for calculating purposes can be created by imagination or it doesn't exist. You can go as far as to say even the things/value/entity we imagine are restricted by what the individual has experienced. This means time becomes another major restriction of what we can contemplate or that exists.
Also Mathematics is the art of deriving a final outcome. It is not the subset. Everything is dependent on Maths.
Therefore It is restricted by time and space. Our current mathematics only exists because of these fundamental properties and the number 1.
2. Cantor stated that we can have infinite possibilities within the finite. What he really was studying was the infinite possibilities within the only number, However my argument is we can only have infinite outside of finite.
3. All this comes solely from me and is not taken from any other. Not wikipedia or any other source.
When it comes to deciphering logic it doesn't matter what your academic background is, look at the greatest mistake from Cantor ( ∞ )
In regards to your comments about contradiction, firstly all those different values are a part of the number 1 or derived from it.
I should state You are correct in your equations. The only problem is all your proving wrong is not me but Cantor. Again my equation shows that the infinite is equal to 1 outside of finite and existed before us and will after.
Cantor ( ∞ )
Me 1 = ∞ outside of ()
In other words all those different variants you mentioned in your examples are again only exaggerating the core, the Number 1 within finite (1) and it restricted by mathematical law (+|-).
Aug 24 2012: I thank you for your response and your criticism.
I do consider the universe and it's restrictions as everything, but not totality.
Anything that is restricted and finite, be it our mathematics or our known universe, even if in future another universe is found, these are a part of that everything.
Outside of the finite however there is an infinite, which I do not consider a part of the restrictions. A creator does not need to be a part of the creator, a simple example is if I draw a picture, I am not a part of the picture even though it is my art.
The way you are describing Totality, as you have titled it, is how Cantor perceived it, that is the infinite possibilities within the finite, hence no bound or end.
My argument is we must come to accept that the infinite can not, in any shape or form be restricted.
We must look before and beyond the Time Space ideology in order to understand how big is the infinite, in totality.
Aug 20 2012: Repeat the same pattern far enough and you will get to the initial creation of finite, what was before finite?
You can't say it was a giant mass or a gaseous glob because these theories are still within the bounds of mathematics. As I stated in my last post, any concept we come up with, imagine or dream is still restricted by the Individuals experiences.
Linda as i stated before i really cant be bothered arguing. lets forget the whole argument and refer our posts back to the related equation, the reason for the initial post
Aug 20 2012: Ok Linda, I really don't have the patience to argue he said she said, if you believe I said God is restricted I apologize, if your referring to my examples of religious beliefs and have confused it I again apologize, I really can't be bothered arguing.
If you wouldC like you can quote me the 3 times I said God was within finite, if it makes you feel happy.
In regards to your infinite universe, your entitled to your opinion and I applaud you for your decision.
I also believe there was something before the big bang, the question then arises what was before that.
You see what your stating is still within finite, it still agrees to our law of mathematics. Using the process of elimination we get to a point where we are left with one initial creation, maybe it was an energy form or a speck of dust, maybe just the higgs by itself but yet again, whatever you believe was before the big bang unless just the governing laws and a creator of the laws, a positive and a negative is required for that entity to exist, hence it is still finite.
quote: "Everything from one single giant mass to some amorphous gaseous glob to the dimensional evolution of the universe."..... All of the examples you gave are calculable, measurable and still restricted by time and space. What was before these?
What I mean is you said ,"the space it occupies will continue to exist. Even if the matter does not". What your referring to is a perfect ideology, please don't misunderstand me, however it is still restricted.
Just to justify my reasoning
Say I die now, your correct my energy remains but I cease to exist in a matter form, how did my energy come to be BEFORE I was born? It means that energy was something else's energy to begin with, and so on and so on,
I'm restricted by requiring earthly bound materials to exist and the earth is older than me, so my initial creation of matter for me to be a physical being must be a part of the earth, what existed before the earth?
Aug 20 2012: There's also one fundamental aspect of the equation about the infinite being OUTSIDE the finite
Whatever we think, dream or imagine is still restricted by our personal experiences even if what we conjured is illogical and impossible.
So we can never understand the deity or try contemplating. Even though I have defined it as 1 and ∞. the deity being outside our boundaries means he can't be contemplated because we are within
(+|-) mathematical boundaries.
In summary, the infinite possibilities we can think about are still finite.
So again Linda I am against the ideology that The deity or any part of the deity can be within boundaries as stated by others.
Aug 20 2012: Mind my crudeness Linda but within your argument there is not only major flaws but what you have interpreted what I have said is disastrously wrong.
Let me intially point out I am not against the concept of multiple universes or other dimensions, however as of current this is an assumption and not based on any substantial evidence. Even if they do exist, the question arises what was before that, as stated by yourself. The other point is if we do find it, it means it can be understood, contemplated, calculated and measured, also subject to time and space, which again would mean it has a beginning and an end or finite.
As I state in the video link, even if we find another universe, we must eliminate them from the list in order to break it down to its core, to find the initial beginning.
Secondly Science and especially Physics has proven we have a beginning and our universe began with a big bang.
Quantum Mechanics says before the big bang we can potentially come from nothing, if laws are in place for nothing to produce something. Now remembering this let's go back to the equation
1 + (+|-) = ∞
The natural law, the laws that Quantum Mechanics states or the governing universal laws is the addition symbol before/outside of the finite. The intial explanation of the finite one (1) is not God. This is what Buddhism and Cantor said, not me.
The earthly bound son, or the divine being on earth is a Christian belief structure and also is related to Cantor and the Buddhism perspective, again not me. It is our numerical system, a creation, a value, an entity that's restricted by mathetical law. Arius at the time of Constantine argued in regards to not believing that the infinite can be within finite, unfortunately Athenicios won the argument and the Nicea council excepted his perspective.
I state specifically the 1 God CANNOT be within finite and inifinite cannot be in finite, it must be outside.
In other words some of our religious structures need tweaking and are slightly wrong
Aug 20 2012: God (1) is not finite, it is outside of our finite, outside the brackets of restrictions. Outside of finite 1= ∞ so God is infinite, but it is one.
I never stated he is within finite, I however showed the different belief structures and how they have understood it to be so.
I sincerely apologize but what is your definition of universe?
The deeper we understand our universe, as present, the more we understand that "our universe" had a beginning from the initial big bang. The further we look, the more it agrees to our logical laws, even if sometimes it might take some time to understand the logic.
Also we can measure our universe, ever heard of light years? If something is measurable and calculable it falls within the vicinity of finite and mathematics.
Einsteins E=mc2 and the theory of relativity helped established the boarders of finite, it's beginning and it's end, or it's boundaries.
In regards to free will, all things in our universe is comprised of positives and negatives, ask a scientist.
When looking at the equation from a scientifical perspective we understand the (+|-) exist.
When we look at it from a morale perspective, we understand we have an option of doing whatever we feel, as long as it is within the laws of mathematics (+|-), as stated before, our option to either emit positive energy or negative energy, follow a positive path, or negative path. On the day of judgement (=) your deeds will be tallied, where you can end up in an infinte positive + ∞, heaven or infinite negative - ∞ hell, respectively. The choice of the afterlife depends on what you chose between the boarders.
Cantor was the one who stated infinity has bounds, hence I call it the greatest oxymoron in existence. I state that infinite can not be within our bounds and what Cantor was looking at was the infinite possibilities within the number 1.
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A comment on Conversation: Georg Cantor was wrong about infinity. Greatest Mistake in History True Infinity explained
So which one of these finite Gods is infinite?
A reply on Conversation: Georg Cantor was wrong about infinity. Greatest Mistake in History True Infinity explained
The misunderstanding of infinite stems from most thinking there could be multiple infinites. Truth is only 1 infinite can exist that everything else is a part of and not Seperate.
In my terminology 1=God. A 100% complete being with infinite possibilities; the Omni.
If God is multiple Gods, or as you state an infinite amount of Gods (any more than 1), then could you really have an infinite? It would not be all encompassing because a Seperately unique infinite would exist.
You do not have to call it God, but we already know thanks to Cantor the infinite possibilities of the only number; this is quite easily seen even with our restricted perception.
The same rules also apply to beyond the brackets.
If 1 is complete (100%) and can explain itself and every other numerical possibility,
Then how can we have any other number?
Now let me ask this religiously,
If God is complete (100%) and can explain himself and every other created possibility,
Then how can we have any other God?
Do you see my point my friend
A comment on Conversation: Georg Cantor was wrong about infinity. Greatest Mistake in History True Infinity explained
You are just agreeing with me and rejecting Cantors concept of the infinite.
The only possibility of the actual Infinite is outside of finite, then 1, with the infinite possibilities is the infinite in totality.
In all honesty it doesn't bother me if you accept heaven and hell, based on the dicissions you made within the finite, as long as you can see where the mistake of the greatest mathematician in recent history is, I've been successful in promoting my findings.
A reply on Conversation: Georg Cantor was wrong about infinity. Greatest Mistake in History True Infinity explained
1. Mathematics is restricted by the number 1. As I stated before all we have in our numeric system. It either exists, even for calculating purposes can be created by imagination or it doesn't exist. You can go as far as to say even the things/value/entity we imagine are restricted by what the individual has experienced. This means time becomes another major restriction of what we can contemplate or that exists.
Also Mathematics is the art of deriving a final outcome. It is not the subset. Everything is dependent on Maths.
Therefore It is restricted by time and space. Our current mathematics only exists because of these fundamental properties and the number 1.
2. Cantor stated that we can have infinite possibilities within the finite. What he really was studying was the infinite possibilities within the only number, However my argument is we can only have infinite outside of finite.
3. All this comes solely from me and is not taken from any other. Not wikipedia or any other source.
When it comes to deciphering logic it doesn't matter what your academic background is, look at the greatest mistake from Cantor ( ∞ )
In regards to your comments about contradiction, firstly all those different values are a part of the number 1 or derived from it.
I should state You are correct in your equations. The only problem is all your proving wrong is not me but Cantor. Again my equation shows that the infinite is equal to 1 outside of finite and existed before us and will after.
Cantor ( ∞ )
Me 1 = ∞ outside of ()
In other words all those different variants you mentioned in your examples are again only exaggerating the core, the Number 1 within finite (1) and it restricted by mathematical law (+|-).
Thank you for your criticism
A comment on Conversation: Georg Cantor was wrong about infinity. Greatest Mistake in History True Infinity explained
I do consider the universe and it's restrictions as everything, but not totality.
Anything that is restricted and finite, be it our mathematics or our known universe, even if in future another universe is found, these are a part of that everything.
Outside of the finite however there is an infinite, which I do not consider a part of the restrictions. A creator does not need to be a part of the creator, a simple example is if I draw a picture, I am not a part of the picture even though it is my art.
The way you are describing Totality, as you have titled it, is how Cantor perceived it, that is the infinite possibilities within the finite, hence no bound or end.
My argument is we must come to accept that the infinite can not, in any shape or form be restricted.
We must look before and beyond the Time Space ideology in order to understand how big is the infinite, in totality.
I again thank you for your response.
A comment on Conversation: Georg Cantor was wrong about infinity. Greatest Mistake in History True Infinity explained
You can't say it was a giant mass or a gaseous glob because these theories are still within the bounds of mathematics. As I stated in my last post, any concept we come up with, imagine or dream is still restricted by the Individuals experiences.
Linda as i stated before i really cant be bothered arguing. lets forget the whole argument and refer our posts back to the related equation, the reason for the initial post
A comment on Conversation: Georg Cantor was wrong about infinity. Greatest Mistake in History True Infinity explained
If you wouldC like you can quote me the 3 times I said God was within finite, if it makes you feel happy.
In regards to your infinite universe, your entitled to your opinion and I applaud you for your decision.
I also believe there was something before the big bang, the question then arises what was before that.
You see what your stating is still within finite, it still agrees to our law of mathematics. Using the process of elimination we get to a point where we are left with one initial creation, maybe it was an energy form or a speck of dust, maybe just the higgs by itself but yet again, whatever you believe was before the big bang unless just the governing laws and a creator of the laws, a positive and a negative is required for that entity to exist, hence it is still finite.
quote: "Everything from one single giant mass to some amorphous gaseous glob to the dimensional evolution of the universe."..... All of the examples you gave are calculable, measurable and still restricted by time and space. What was before these?
What I mean is you said ,"the space it occupies will continue to exist. Even if the matter does not". What your referring to is a perfect ideology, please don't misunderstand me, however it is still restricted.
Just to justify my reasoning
Say I die now, your correct my energy remains but I cease to exist in a matter form, how did my energy come to be BEFORE I was born? It means that energy was something else's energy to begin with, and so on and so on,
I'm restricted by requiring earthly bound materials to exist and the earth is older than me, so my initial creation of matter for me to be a physical being must be a part of the earth, what existed before the earth?
A comment on Conversation: Georg Cantor was wrong about infinity. Greatest Mistake in History True Infinity explained
Whatever we think, dream or imagine is still restricted by our personal experiences even if what we conjured is illogical and impossible.
So we can never understand the deity or try contemplating. Even though I have defined it as 1 and ∞. the deity being outside our boundaries means he can't be contemplated because we are within
(+|-) mathematical boundaries.
In summary, the infinite possibilities we can think about are still finite.
So again Linda I am against the ideology that The deity or any part of the deity can be within boundaries as stated by others.
A reply on Conversation: Georg Cantor was wrong about infinity. Greatest Mistake in History True Infinity explained
Let me intially point out I am not against the concept of multiple universes or other dimensions, however as of current this is an assumption and not based on any substantial evidence. Even if they do exist, the question arises what was before that, as stated by yourself. The other point is if we do find it, it means it can be understood, contemplated, calculated and measured, also subject to time and space, which again would mean it has a beginning and an end or finite.
As I state in the video link, even if we find another universe, we must eliminate them from the list in order to break it down to its core, to find the initial beginning.
Secondly Science and especially Physics has proven we have a beginning and our universe began with a big bang.
Quantum Mechanics says before the big bang we can potentially come from nothing, if laws are in place for nothing to produce something. Now remembering this let's go back to the equation
1 + (+|-) = ∞
The natural law, the laws that Quantum Mechanics states or the governing universal laws is the addition symbol before/outside of the finite. The intial explanation of the finite one (1) is not God. This is what Buddhism and Cantor said, not me.
The earthly bound son, or the divine being on earth is a Christian belief structure and also is related to Cantor and the Buddhism perspective, again not me. It is our numerical system, a creation, a value, an entity that's restricted by mathetical law. Arius at the time of Constantine argued in regards to not believing that the infinite can be within finite, unfortunately Athenicios won the argument and the Nicea council excepted his perspective.
I state specifically the 1 God CANNOT be within finite and inifinite cannot be in finite, it must be outside.
In other words some of our religious structures need tweaking and are slightly wrong
A reply on Conversation: Georg Cantor was wrong about infinity. Greatest Mistake in History True Infinity explained
I never stated he is within finite, I however showed the different belief structures and how they have understood it to be so.
I sincerely apologize but what is your definition of universe?
The deeper we understand our universe, as present, the more we understand that "our universe" had a beginning from the initial big bang. The further we look, the more it agrees to our logical laws, even if sometimes it might take some time to understand the logic.
Also we can measure our universe, ever heard of light years? If something is measurable and calculable it falls within the vicinity of finite and mathematics.
Einsteins E=mc2 and the theory of relativity helped established the boarders of finite, it's beginning and it's end, or it's boundaries.
In regards to free will, all things in our universe is comprised of positives and negatives, ask a scientist.
When looking at the equation from a scientifical perspective we understand the (+|-) exist.
When we look at it from a morale perspective, we understand we have an option of doing whatever we feel, as long as it is within the laws of mathematics (+|-), as stated before, our option to either emit positive energy or negative energy, follow a positive path, or negative path. On the day of judgement (=) your deeds will be tallied, where you can end up in an infinte positive + ∞, heaven or infinite negative - ∞ hell, respectively. The choice of the afterlife depends on what you chose between the boarders.
Cantor was the one who stated infinity has bounds, hence I call it the greatest oxymoron in existence. I state that infinite can not be within our bounds and what Cantor was looking at was the infinite possibilities within the number 1.