Apr 11 2012: I used the word "valuable" because I feel that it's the next stage of my argument - certain people (should) have intrinsic value, from the point of view of a government or other seemingly objective entity.
Remember, I did not ask why a certain person is less valuable than another - I asked why a certain person is more valuable than another. There is a huge difference - one question would appear in court, and the other would appear on TED.
I'm trying to look at this from the point of view of (as above) a seemingly objective entity, be it a government or corporation.
Apr 11 2012: That's all great and all.. But you are looking at it from the wrong angle.
Is there anyone in the world, present or past, you consider better than yourself? Who is, overall, a better person? Than in my construed use of the word "valuable", that person is more "valuable" than you.
So how do we make ourselves more valuable? This is my question. How do we get certain people to believe that what they're doing would make them appear, in the eyes of a "good" stranger, to be less valuable than they could, potentially, be?
The reform I'm thinking of would involve drafting a number of things that make people great - and allow everyone to aspire to these things, rather than tell people they are already "great" and "special". Yes, everyone is great and special, people really are amazing and awesome, until you meet a racist, a pedophile, or a serial killer who killed his inmate in prison - is it hard for some people to admit that there are "bad" people in the world?
Apr 11 2012: Exactly my line of thinking. I don't think it's OK to say that certain people have value and others don't, but it is how society perceives its members. Every single person I have had the pleasure of getting to know well in my life has turned out to be beautiful - but maybe that's because I generally won't try to get to know people who I don't consider "worth my time", even though many of them are valuable members of society.
I look at it this way - I have a certain amount of time in my life where I will have the pleasure of talking to people, and I might as well talk to people who I "enjoy" talking with. Is this wrong?
Apr 11 2012: Well it isn't evening yet, but more than one evening has passed since you replied.
Like I said in another reply, this question isn't one that can be answered by a few people on a TED conversation. It's just something I'd like people to ponder about more - by saying we're all "the same", we're suggesting no one is better than us. I'll develop this point further in a reply above this.
And in reply to your reply - yes, you are completely correct, and I completely agree with you. I am a very valuable person and all. Lol JK. As in, our value often is derived from how others perceive us. This is definitely how society is run in today's world - but perhaps there is more to being valuable than being valuable to others? Considering one's self valuable? Self esteem? What about that?
Apr 10 2012: Things I feel contribute to our worth; none alone make one valuable/of less worth, but together they do affect how others view us:
- Aristotle's virtues? I am not an Aristotelian, but that's a pretty good list lol
Apr 10 2012: Read some of my other answers - I feel this viewpoint is a very new one, and has not existed in flourishing societies in the past. Yes, when judging other people, we must definitely believe they are valuable, and I do, and most normal people do, I would think.
The question is not whether they're valuable or not valuable - the question is how valuable we are.
John The Ripper as a member of society - do we want more John The Rippers? Do we want more Einsteins?
By shying away from the real answer to these questions, are liberals stunting development? (make everyone feel they're special, and so people don't work as hard anymore)
Again, I'm just experimenting with this. Don't judge me!! :P
Apr 10 2012: Please read the other two answers - and view my question as progressive rather than undeveloped.
Timeline of (some random) society, from (some time in the) past to present-
Society does not think together
People are racist
People hate those of lower social standing, for no reason at all, although they will have excuses (eg, they are dirty, one of them once did such and such, etc)
Reform
Public view is now very against being judgemental, in any way at all
Nobody judges anyone else, for any action they commit, unless the people "know" each other (whatever that means)
Suddenly everyone's a good guy
We turn prisons into "rehabilitation centers", and abolish any punishment considered "too brutal" - prisoners who leave prisons are very likely to return on new charges; very few prisoners are reformed, unfortunately
Crime rates go up for no apparent reason; nobody wants to link crime rates to softer punishments
Society as a whole starts to stagnate; self help becomes a market of its own because when people don't know what they want from others, they don't know what they want to be
^ something like that is my chain of thought.
I don't strongly believe anything I have said in this comment, and it's just a viewpoint that I am experimenting with. AKA let's blame society's problems on the liberals.
Apr 10 2012: ^ I hope whoever reads that gains some insight from it, because I don't really have a conclusion or answer to the question, and most of that is just musing >_
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A reply on Conversation: People are valuable. But are certain people more valuable than others? If yes; can we measure this?
Because I like the idea of a meritocracy :)
A reply on Conversation: People are valuable. But are certain people more valuable than others? If yes; can we measure this?
Remember, I did not ask why a certain person is less valuable than another - I asked why a certain person is more valuable than another. There is a huge difference - one question would appear in court, and the other would appear on TED.
I'm trying to look at this from the point of view of (as above) a seemingly objective entity, be it a government or corporation.
A reply on Conversation: People are valuable. But are certain people more valuable than others? If yes; can we measure this?
Is there anyone in the world, present or past, you consider better than yourself? Who is, overall, a better person? Than in my construed use of the word "valuable", that person is more "valuable" than you.
So how do we make ourselves more valuable? This is my question. How do we get certain people to believe that what they're doing would make them appear, in the eyes of a "good" stranger, to be less valuable than they could, potentially, be?
The reform I'm thinking of would involve drafting a number of things that make people great - and allow everyone to aspire to these things, rather than tell people they are already "great" and "special". Yes, everyone is great and special, people really are amazing and awesome, until you meet a racist, a pedophile, or a serial killer who killed his inmate in prison - is it hard for some people to admit that there are "bad" people in the world?
A reply on Conversation: People are valuable. But are certain people more valuable than others? If yes; can we measure this?
I look at it this way - I have a certain amount of time in my life where I will have the pleasure of talking to people, and I might as well talk to people who I "enjoy" talking with. Is this wrong?
A reply on Conversation: People are valuable. But are certain people more valuable than others? If yes; can we measure this?
Like I said in another reply, this question isn't one that can be answered by a few people on a TED conversation. It's just something I'd like people to ponder about more - by saying we're all "the same", we're suggesting no one is better than us. I'll develop this point further in a reply above this.
And in reply to your reply - yes, you are completely correct, and I completely agree with you. I am a very valuable person and all. Lol JK. As in, our value often is derived from how others perceive us. This is definitely how society is run in today's world - but perhaps there is more to being valuable than being valuable to others? Considering one's self valuable? Self esteem? What about that?
I hope you too have a great day/evening Mary. :)
A comment on Conversation: People are valuable. But are certain people more valuable than others? If yes; can we measure this?
- Aristotle's virtues? I am not an Aristotelian, but that's a pretty good list lol
A reply on Conversation: People are valuable. But are certain people more valuable than others? If yes; can we measure this?
The question is not whether they're valuable or not valuable - the question is how valuable we are.
John The Ripper as a member of society - do we want more John The Rippers? Do we want more Einsteins?
By shying away from the real answer to these questions, are liberals stunting development? (make everyone feel they're special, and so people don't work as hard anymore)
Again, I'm just experimenting with this. Don't judge me!! :P
A comment on Conversation: What do you NOT like about ted?
lol jk
A reply on Conversation: People are valuable. But are certain people more valuable than others? If yes; can we measure this?
Timeline of (some random) society, from (some time in the) past to present-
Society does not think together
People are racist
People hate those of lower social standing, for no reason at all, although they will have excuses (eg, they are dirty, one of them once did such and such, etc)
Reform
Public view is now very against being judgemental, in any way at all
Nobody judges anyone else, for any action they commit, unless the people "know" each other (whatever that means)
Suddenly everyone's a good guy
We turn prisons into "rehabilitation centers", and abolish any punishment considered "too brutal" - prisoners who leave prisons are very likely to return on new charges; very few prisoners are reformed, unfortunately
Crime rates go up for no apparent reason; nobody wants to link crime rates to softer punishments
Society as a whole starts to stagnate; self help becomes a market of its own because when people don't know what they want from others, they don't know what they want to be
^ something like that is my chain of thought.
I don't strongly believe anything I have said in this comment, and it's just a viewpoint that I am experimenting with. AKA let's blame society's problems on the liberals.
A reply on Conversation: People are valuable. But are certain people more valuable than others? If yes; can we measure this?