Feb 29 2012: Yeah farm life aint bad. It can be better than showing up at a cubicle at 8 in the morning every day in my opinion. Sometimes i miss living closer to a city but at least i dont dread my job like some people. It has some pros and cons but mostly pros. Plus i get a lot of free time in the winter since i dont have livestock.
Feb 29 2012: I also dont want to give off the impression that all organic farmers are against conventional farming. Most of them are really not and dont go around preaching against it. Its just a personal choice not to partake for whatever reason
Feb 29 2012: Sorry about that. I missed a few of those things you said. Didnt mean to make assumptions. I had never used this before i stumbled upon your discussion and this is kinda confusing. Agree to disagree i guess.
Feb 29 2012: Sure Jesse, i agree with you that organic certification should truly mean organic and not allow chemicals. That is hardly a reason to say you prefer conventional over organic. Your argument against organic is based on what an expert would call a 'red herring' argument, which you would have learned in logic 101 like i did. A 'red herring' argument is a very weak argument. You keep drifting away and distracting us from the most important points of the entire issue, and draw a conclusion from faulty reasoning. I expect more from a Canadian bcause you cant use the dumb American excuse a? lol! Educate yourself
Feb 29 2012: Like i said, i don't go around promoting organic Lester. I haven't even told a single one of my friends about how i think organic is better because they are just not interested, and i have many friends. I just tell my family that local is better. Sure i go out to eat at normal restaurants when i am with friends, so i guess i should have said i consume about 95% organic total. When people ask me about this farm i recently bought, i just simply call it a farm and im a farmer now. I am hardly ever engaged in this topic because most people don't care or are already convinced. Organic food products probably cater to only 5% of the market depending on where you live. There are many reasons people choose organic. Some for health reasons, some for the environment, some to support local family farms, some know about how unethical corporate farming is, some don't like animal factory farms, some don't like gm crops, etc.. Generally speaking, all of these are true and very good reasons. The other reason i don't like the focus of your argument Jesse is that i am familiar with 50 or so organic farms and i have never heard of these pesticides you claim that organic farmers use. I didn't know pesticides were allowed at all. Your statements misrepresents the vast majority of organic farms. Its more about supporting the principal, idea, and concept that organic is better and should be 100% natural. Its important to have the choice and empower the consumer with the freedom of choosing. I simply prefer organic mostly because i did some research and found that most experts/scientists agree its healthier and better for everything. Hopefully conventional methods improve and corporations like monsanto become more ethical and stop giving caring conventional farmers a bad name. The thing is that you presented a broad question about the general pros and cons and which one is ultimately better, then state you prefer conventional and gave few reasons. Other credible reasons had not been mention
Feb 29 2012: Roundup has many other ingredients than just glycophospate. I don't know any organic farmers who grow soy, corn, wheat, or anything like that. Maybe we need conventional methods to feed the overpopulated world but i don't really care because organic products are not for everyone and organic farmers are not trying to take over the world like monsanto. Although surprised, I was not overly impressed with that scientific article. The article was too specific and not comparative and whenever a scientific article is titled with words like ''may'', they have not come to any conclusions but rather making suggestions. When you claim that organic farming permits harmful chemicals, you are misrepresenting the honest, hardworking, majority of small farmers that want to keep small farms alive and who choose not to suck the c*ck of big chemical corporations. I just read about IPM projects being more environmentally focused and you may be doing a good thing. The apple guy said that organic apples can be worse for the health and i cant figure that one out. Lester is curious about my character, well i actually don't use soap on when cleaning my house or in the dishwasher or washing machine. My cloth and dishes wash very well in just hot water, and hot water is fine for mopping floors as well. I use eco friendly soap in the shower and for my hands. I do however drive a nice car, wear generic cloth and always carry my glock19 pistol since washington allows concealed pistol licenses. I smoke stuff that is apparently semi-organic. Im 26 years old and I believe in good old fashion silver dollars and hard work that we should not hand over to mexicans or supplement with chemical herbicides just to save a buck on a cheeseburger or pound of strawberries.
Feb 28 2012: Here are three articles about the harmful health effects of common pesticides. They are not only talking about how people ingest them from contaminated drinking water caused by agriculture run off but also traces in the foods. Unlike the ONE you posted, these are conclusive studies that are not titled with frivolous, wishy washy words like 'may'. That experiment was also specific to soy beans, which is not a common crop among organic growers. I am open for convincing but you got to do a lot better than that buddy haha! I used to read scientific articles in college so dont think im a complete idiot here. There are hundreds more where these came from. I would take these seriously and drop any predisposition.
Feb 28 2012: Arsenic is an organic chemical/compound. That is a term used in chemistry which im assuming you know but i actually heard some idiot a few weeks ago talking as if organic arsenic had something to do with organic food. I know the study was however referring to certified organic pesticides.
Feb 28 2012: My friends, there is a battle on many fronts and we cant win em all but we need to prioritize our fights and do what we can to help the planet in our own way. Did i mention i have solar panels and am putting up a 3kw wind generator on my 19 acre farm because i disagree with coal power. We organic farmers just want to make a honest living and not get ousted out by the big guns. The reason i can sell my vegetables for far less than conventional is because i payed cash for my farm, tractor, and greenhouse, and dont have any bank loans looming over my head. Can you believe a college educated rich kid from Bellevue Washington would want to pick weeds all day?!-I love doing it and my organic farm ain't going no where. You would be surprised what a 19 acre farm can produce. My friend has a 20 acre organic farm and he sold over $250,000 in veggies last year! I have yet to build such a customer base but im in no hurry. He doesnt care about the posotive aspects of organic farming, he just does it for the money. I could have bought a bigger farm but this is plenty of income for me and a few hired pairs of hands.
Feb 28 2012: I give you guys credit for your diplomatic demeanor and your sincere interest about this stuff. Im glad to hear methods are improving in the apple industry. I apologize for acting like a jerk. Maybe i was perhaps slightly disrespectful. There are some valid points here and i need to take a closer look at that article about the organic fertilizer study but i am a busy guy and will have to get back to this tomorrow or within the next few days.
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A reply on Conversation: Organic Farming vs. Conventional Farming: Why do you favour one over the other?
A reply on Conversation: Organic Farming vs. Conventional Farming: Why do you favour one over the other?
A reply on Conversation: Organic Farming vs. Conventional Farming: Why do you favour one over the other?
A reply on Conversation: Organic Farming vs. Conventional Farming: Why do you favour one over the other?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking_%28fallacy%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring
A reply on Conversation: Organic Farming vs. Conventional Farming: Why do you favour one over the other?
A reply on Conversation: Organic Farming vs. Conventional Farming: Why do you favour one over the other?
A comment on Conversation: Organic Farming vs. Conventional Farming: Why do you favour one over the other?
http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/news/pesticides-block-male-hormones
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/tx800218n
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0300483X09003047
A reply on Conversation: Organic Farming vs. Conventional Farming: Why do you favour one over the other?
A comment on Conversation: Organic Farming vs. Conventional Farming: Why do you favour one over the other?
A comment on Conversation: Organic Farming vs. Conventional Farming: Why do you favour one over the other?