Trevor Rose

Melbourne, Australia

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144075
Trevor Rose
Posted over 2 years ago
Evolving a new system of economic interaction not based on limited supply currency
and it amazes me that you have the utter disinterest in helping this very important discussion by shutting down those comments from people only interested in criticizing who never once attempted to understand enough about it to actually warrant criticism, and you have failed in your responses to me when censoring me but not them... i started this discussion, and you have allowed abusive people onto it, and then shut down the whole discussion instead of censoring them, because i dared criticise your failures in moderating it
144075
Trevor Rose
Posted over 2 years ago
Evolving a new system of economic interaction not based on limited supply currency
AND Pat, since you have blocked me from replying to you directly, I have to reply to you via Kris... and I think that is without doubt quite cowardly of you, which is not name calling TED, it is an OBSERVATION based on evidence he provided himself. Economics IS NOT the study of scarce resources that have alternative uses yaddah yaddah yaddah... economics is the study of the effect of MONEY on & from other things (including the scarce resources you mentioned)... what you said is what economists THINK economics is a study of, because they dont understand real science, and because they think that their comprehension of basic arithmetic & their use of it in counting how much money they made & how they made it, constitutes a science... it is a joke of a science, and every other scientist (and especially the mathematicians) know this. Did you know that economics has to hire real mathematicians to do their maths for them, because the economists cant DO that level of maths for themselves in the first place? Did you know that none of those real mathematicians, nor any other real scientist has ever been involved in developing any of the underlying core principles of economics? ...and so any maths they do, is only counting the numbers of a fundamentally flawed system? ...of course you dont Pat, you believe in it as religiously as a person of faith does believe in their own particular sect or cult.
144075
Trevor Rose
Posted over 2 years ago
Evolving a new system of economic interaction not based on limited supply currency
No Pat, everything you said was assumption about what you think it is I believe, and you are utterly wrong, and I cannot even see where you drew that conclusion from... you certainly havent shown it. Krisztian - have you ever opened your eyes & noticed how TED has a severe character limit & no ability to embed anything? ...did it ever occur to you that for me to explain completely such a complex system in text alone in this minimal space would be an impossibility, and what I was hoping via this supposedly intellectual forum is that I would encounter something other than trolls who do nothing more than look for something to criticize & then do so without bothering to look for anything other than ammunition to criticize with? Both you & Pat have patently failed to be polite, patently failed to take the slightest interest in asking real questions, and patently failed to see the substance of what i have written and thereby determine what sensible questions you could have asked... and I dont know if your comments pass as clever in your own circles, but they certainly do not do so in mine... i do not know anyone who would be anything other than utterly embarrassed to post what you both have... and it says way more about yourselves than anything else. ...and finally TED > I came to this forum in good faith posting a concept which has been worked on for many years by myself and another guy who is an EXPERT in the field of ecological systems modelling, and whom has completed his MASTERS in instrumentation engineering, along with several other post grad degrees at RMIT in Melbourne Australia.... and not only do you ALLOW these people to harass without reason rationality or evidence, but if I am remotely impolite in my responses to their un-researched & un-educated abusiveness, you censor me?? TED, you are either going to rectify this AND publicly post a major apology about all this, OR I am going to publicly post not only a record of this discussion, but your censorship
144075
Trevor Rose
Posted over 2 years ago
Evolving a new system of economic interaction not based on limited supply currency
my logic is not remotely flawed & you havent shown it to be so... your assertion that it is does not make it so. yes i can dismiss money as a fundamentally flawed tool by pointing out its flaws & suggesting we should replace it because these flaws are not fixable because of its fundamental mechanics... your claim that i cannot is nothing but an assertion again... a completely unsubstantiated assertion... where is your evidence, where is your rational discussion, your reasons? nothing i have said is even remotely related to whether I LIKE money coming in limited amounts... my liking or not liking this is irrelevant, and I never stated anything which warrants that comment from you. the only things i said I like or dont like, is the fact that these problems with our existing currency system cause problems for society & the environment... and if you DO like those problems, and you DO like currency as it exists regardless of those problems, and you dont think we should do anything to change it... then i think that speaks volumes about your character. yes i want a world ultimately without this existing form of economic system... because it is a flawed system, and because it can be improved by such a massive amount & it is overdue for it to die... it is obsolete by its inability to become more socially & environmentally sustainable... and I made no effort to hide that, are you serious you needed me to state it? you cant brush me off as a "commie" anymore than I can brush you off as a "right wing fascist" you dont see what I am discussing because it is beyond you... and you have done nothing to attempt to understand it, and if you have, then i am rather underwhelmed by your inability to grasp the concepts, and your inability to explain properly your exact reasons for not agreeing, beyond the very limited way in which you just make unsubstantiated assertions.
144075
Trevor Rose
Posted over 2 years ago
Evolving a new system of economic interaction not based on limited supply currency
i am not saying that the limited supply of money does not have a useful function, it does, and I recognise that... the useful function of the limited supply of money is that it forces people to act... if you want money, there is only a certain amount of it out there, and hence you have to do something to go get some of it... and the potentially positive aspect of this, is that it is supposed to make people contribute towards society as a whole (do something productive)... ...however, this is not the end of the story... The limited supply of money, and some other factors, also have negative effects, and these negative effects are ultimately so negative & so irreversible, that I am arguing that whether we like it or not, there will come a point in time where no matter what technology we develop, there will be nothing we can do to counter these negative effects, unless we have by that stage managed to get off this one planet & spread to other areas to distribute the impact of our society on nature. Yes it is possible that we will one day achieve this... however: 1 - it is less likely we will achieve it while the limiting factors of money continue to undermine human society & stifle our true potential 2 - there is no guarantee that we will develop these abilities for space travel & colonization at that level before the proverbial shite really hits the fan 3 - it may be that we theoretically understand how to do it, but have long since chewed up the resources required to achieve it (particularly energy resources) before we get there 4 - the whole time we keep the existing system, people are suffering through the poverty it is causing, and the environment is suffering from the exploitation it cannot support... this is causing sadness in massive levels for countless people, it is causing the extinction of species at an ever increasing rate... and the only way anyone can justify it, is by having really appallingly low standards. I for one, expect more of us.
144075
Trevor Rose
Posted over 2 years ago
Evolving a new system of economic interaction not based on limited supply currency
I read your reply, but I dont really understand how you came to that conclusion, especially since I see the exact opposite, can you explain your reasoning in a different way? The existing financial systems of the world are extremely flawed... Currency ONLY states its face value; it doesnt care where or how you got it, and this makes theft possible, unfairness possible, & all sorts of things possible ...but I could not list all the flaws of currency here in this forum, that is an article of its own. So far as feedback loops in modelling is concerned, that is actually quite easy, and the problems you raise are no where near as big as you may imagine them to be. but I cannot explain it to you without first giving you a lesson in maths & science, and even then it would be a lot easier done face to face so i can draw you pictures. Could I ask you to accept that some things you will not understand in this discussion? I think you are interpreting a lot of things in entirely the wrong way, and far from being obsolete on installation, this system would create a company very difficult for others to compete with if they were in the exact same industry producing the same or similar products & services - and there are a whole host of reasons for that. Besides all of this, the comparison between what I am proposing & the existing economic systems of the world, really comes down to this: 1 - the existing systems have already failed in delivering sustainability & friendliness to both society & the environment, they are absolutely undeniably destructive & unsustainable, all evidence shows this conclusively & irrefutably. 2 - as the world's population grows, and the earth's already taxed ability to replenish itself shrinks further, doing nothing is not an option. 3 - the existing system is incapable of being part of the solution, because of its flaws... either it has to be redesigned from scratch, or replaced by something without flaws.
144075
Trevor Rose
Posted over 2 years ago
Evolving a new system of economic interaction not based on limited supply currency
One other comment, for those of you who are familiar with the ideas that are being proposed in general that society should be based on a meritocracy, or that our economics should be based on sustainable resource usage, and that there should be social sustainability in the way that the rewards & resources of our activities as a species are distributed. THIS IS A PROPOSAL FOR PUTTING THAT SYSTEM INTO OPERATION, AND THE BASIC PREMISES REQUIRED TO MAKE IT WORK HAVE ALL BEEN DETERMINED... IT JUST NEEDS FUNDING & RESOURCES TO GET IT STARTED. Part of the business strategy around it is a plan for its exponential growth, because every person who gets involved has the maximum possibility of advancing their own projects. ...yes, I am quite serious about this... it is literally ready to go, and once started, will evolve & grow while simultaneously creating projects in every imaginable realm of endeavour, which are all based on creating a more friendly, sustainable, and exciting world. I posted this conversation in the TED forums in the hope that people with resources & connections who are serious about this change taking place, can come forward & put their money where their mouth is, rather than everyone spending the next 5 - 10 years debating how to do it.
144075
Trevor Rose
Posted over 2 years ago
Evolving a new system of economic interaction not based on limited supply currency
no, there is no decisions made by a committee, it is all based on ecological systems modelling & maths... and it is all automated behind the scenes (eventually), because it is not the kind of thing the average person can wrap their brain around 20 times a day... all they need to do, is have their activities & the outcomes & data relating to their activities logged, the system then makes the calculations for them. if decisions were made by a committee, that would make them as arbitrary as the existing financial system which is based on such ludicrous things as emotion, confidence, and bargaining position... none of which is directly tied to any physical phenomena that makes any sense to tie it to, or is in any way anything by highly variable. in brief, the process of ecological systems modelling is to define a boundary for a system you wish to analyse, this could be a pond, an office, or a community next to a forest... the model contains all the resources & elements of that system, and it also contains data about each element, & its interactions with other elements... and there is also data about the inputs & outputs of that system (which means that system once modelled, can then be treated like a "black-box" and its inputs can be mapped from the outputs of another system, and its own outputs can be mapped to the inputs of a system... and sometimes there is feedback from an output back into the same system as an input. this is a universal modelling language which can be applied to any system. what we model, is energy & emergy.. energy is measured in Joules, and emergy (embodied energy) is measured in emjoules (basically the same thing, except they are not free the way energy is)... kind of like the difference between kinetic & potential energy (but still different again). what this system would enable internally for the business which generates it, is an extremely efficient set of processes for its competitiveness against other businesses.