I applaud you (and many others) for having a global mindset.
However, it's still much too difficult for the entirety of Chinese population to achieve that for a long time.
After all, it's still very much a developing country with 20%+ poverty (poverty as in do not own a house, even the poorest in China owns a TV now a days, yes, even in Tibet).
The good thing is that majority of the government has ALREADY achieved the global mindset, in that they are trying to be a good global player, while balancing the domestic situations.
The biggest thing happening now is that the government is spending $100B+ till 2020 in DeNOx, retrofitting power plants and other pollution sources. Remember that NOx are like 5x more damaging than CO2, so this is a much more effective way of saving the environment.
I don't think these are advertised heavily, but it's a part of the 12th 5-year plan. The law come into effect on Jan. 1, 2012. The target is the same as best of international levels.
Granted, average Chinese have no say in this matter. There were no national referendum on this matter, so no we are not free to make these decisions. But, how many average people understand these events anyways?
It's the government's job to make decision like this and it's the right thing they are doing.
And just to be more frank, this is a GREAT way of spending that money, and stimulating domestic green economy. MUCH better than bailing out European banks from their undying greed. lol.
Ya I've read most of your posts and I really appreciate a westerner stand up and defend the country. Thank you! I think it definitely takes a person to live in China for a while to really see what's happening and changed since cultural revolution and 1989.
Sorry for the long post(s), but I'm sure you wrote more than I did lol. Your posts and other people's views motivated me to write something in like an hour. First post here on TED. Fortunately my firm got a huge project for Chinese clients right now (10B+) so lots of my colleagues who visited China are changing their opinion of China from those images imposed upon us by Western Media.
Regarding the topic of "Han" people,
I'm Canadian now and I can say I'm proud to be a Canadian and contribute to this society. But "Han" is such a powerful identity among Chinese that it crosses nations. Even the Taiwanese will identify them as "Han" people without question. Indeed "Han" is a constructed identity, constructed from 2000+ years of History. In fact, most educated Chinese today have extensive knowledge about at least last 1000 years of History (especially the bad ones) and a general knowledge of the 2000+ years. Correct me if I'm wrong but same cannot be said about most Greeks, The Persians (Iranians), the Egyptians, and perhaps the Israelis.
To understand what History to us is, you only need to look at the Holy Bible, which, in part is a History book (hopefully not unintentionally offend anyone).
Yes. The "Han" concept is effectively a religion, constantly being refined and redefined.
I'm off topic here but the Point is that IMO the government is only a tool to advance "Han" interest. The current government has done a superb job in this regard, providing the institutions and security. It's exactly the way that a typical "Han" people would want, given that we know what the history looked like in the last 2000+ years, and the projected future.
This is my definition of "Freedom", not whatever the UN says.
S***, this has been a long essay, because I’m really frustrated by the fact Westerners seems to think Chinese system is so backward. Yet it’s the western system that’s inefficient and dare I to say “non-democratic”, because the elected officials are very much incompetent. Just because you can cast a ballot with a few predetermined choices does not mean it’s a democracy. Democracy means understanding what the people wants and ACT like it. Not just say it. And really the whole system is a marketing show, and those with the deep pocket / most “campaign contributes” will more likely to win because of more air time / advertising etc. People do vote to familiar faces after all.
So China is as much “free” as the western countries, as long as you place our culture to #1 place you will understand the system.
Finally, the central government is not ruled by one person, but by a state council of over 100 people (think US Congress) as well as a Permanent Council of ~20 people (think US Senate). Normal day to day operations are decided by Permanent Council members (mostly are seasoned governors, Department heads etc.). The 100+ “Congressmen” typically hold office in their own province, and only get together once a year or on emergency basis to make large decisions for the country, such as the “Five-Year” plans. In fact, some of these “Congressmen” used to be workers, bus drivers, cleaners etc, but have demonstrated their ability to lead and moved up the ladder to where they are now. They are some of the most respected characters in the country and some are legends.
Each Province, Each City also has their own annual meetings of their “Provincial Congress” or “City Council”. Same principle applies. Average citizens are allowed in City Council meetings. (Not sure about the others but they are all televised, i.e. open to public).
So No, you CANNOT hope to change the government in one day, like those in western countries, or for a long time. But the system is certainly most fair and modeled after corporate systems. You CAN actually influence your local “Congressmen” and voice your opinions directly or through peaceful protests. But most likely, because the officials are sooo seasoned and competent you do not need to do that.
Freedom of Elections
Just where do you think the officials come from anyways? They don’t live forever. Just because the presidents of China typically hold office for a long time (~10+ years) does not mean there is no fair process of election.
There are two election systems in China. One is Western type election, One is “Corporate Ladder”.
For some rural areas, the elections happen in villages and typically done by voice only (i.e. no official ballot). But since everyone knows everyone it’s OK. The elected official can then have a voice in the city hall of a bigger city (which actually governs the villages).
The second source of government officials comes from fresh new people. Each year, the country holds a very stringent entrance test for young professionals. You must pass the test in order to become a government official. The process is very competitive and names are closed from the scorers so no bias (except some under-the-table deals of course). You must pass the entry test, then pass a competency test for the chosen field of government in order to officially be government employee.
Then it becomes a Claim the “Ladder” game. You have to slowly work your way up even to President of China. In fact, the current President of China climbed up the same way as the previous president. No one is from a prestige or rich family (remember it’s only been 60 years since the founding, no family is that powerful yet, unlike the Regans, The Bushes etc.)
What the westerners do not understand is that it’s NOT POSSIBLE for someone random to seek the office. There is NO such thing as career politician because there is no need for those. Everyone who’s in power today have worked their ass off to fend off the competition and achieve their status. It’s much MUCH fair than the Western election system. AND you are guaranteed that the governor of a province has 20+ years of experience managing the cities, government run businesses etc, so they know how to balance a budget
Nov 5 2011: Continued #5
You are free to look for jobs, send in resumes and hold a high-end job. No one is forcing you to work in textile industry. Just because somehow the western media ALWAYS only show those textile or electronic assembly workers does not mean this is forced work. Those people are all uneducated and unskilled workers and those are high-paying jobs for them, which they can then support their family and children. The alternative is that they can work on farm land all year round and make like 1/10 th of what they make now.
It is unfortunate that those people are poor, uneducated and unskilled, and probably will never have the chance to be something different, but through their hard work, their children can go to college and move up in the society. Remember Chinese literacy rate is still much lower than US, but are growing very fast BECAUSE of these hard-working unskilled labors. They in fact CHOOSE to work so their children can have a better future, same as YOUR PARENTS AND YOU.
Also, you are Free to start up on your own. Own a restaurant or shop. In fact that’s a norm. There are still not a lot of Chains in China so many people have a fighting chance. You can of course be an entrepreneur as long as you can. Most people just don’t have the knowledge to do so.
Chinese people are free to go to any country they choose to (and can afford to), such as myself. Applying for Passport is very easy, using your birth certificate or citizenship card and get it in a few days. Much faster than Canadian lengthy process. Applying Visas are much much harder and imposed by Foreign Governments. China is NOT North Korea!!!
A rural area farmer is free to move to the big urban centers such as Beijing or Shanghai, in fact this is the major source of urban workers for tasks such as textiles, construction etc. They are free to purchase a property in Beijing or Shanghai, as long as you can afford it. This is the major reason why Shanghai and Beijing housing prices are ~10x of the national average.
You MAY need a permanent address in Beijing in order to hold a high-end job in Beijing thou. However, this is imposed by the companies themselves rather than a law. Imagine if you are a large firm in Beijing, would a person without a Beijing permanent address pass your background check? Probably not.
On a related note, Education is free for everyone up until Middle school (grade 9). If you pass the high-school entry test you can go to high school for free. Otherwise you can either go to tech school or pay up. College is not free of course but plenty of scholarships.
Some good schools do not accept non-local students, but this is very much true here in Canada. When I was in High school here I was rejected from one school because I’m not living in the area. All Colleges in China accept all students in China as long as you pass the test. You are free to choose your own major, minor, interest what have you.
Nov 5 2011: Continued #3 (Really hate the word limit now :(
2. Violent protest or the appearance of violence, to the public or yourself. Including a tank of gasoline and try to burn yourself to death in front of a crowd. Fa-lun-gong as an example. Are they allowed here in the North America? I don’t think anyone is allowed to bring a tank of gas or firearm into the White House can they?
3. Separatist protests as I discussed in Part 1, which include the “Tiananmen Square” event, “Falungong” event, among others. When you try to divide the country you always need to go against the government. Unfortunately people often mistook “Separatist” as purely “Anti-Government”, and correlate this to think that Chinese government will put anyone in jail for speaking up against government practices such as corruption. The fact is that the Chinese government allows such protests as against corruption, and each year the government’s internal affairs takes down more corrupt officials (this is called “Shuang Gui”, look it up) than all the other countries combined. In United States, the corruption is legal and called “Campaign contributions”. How come no one protest for those?
To sum it up, as ordinary citizen or organization, as long as you are not a separatist, protest peacefully in non-restricted areas, you are allowed to request police assistance (requires city approval of course, same as here in Canada).
The only reason some service sites (Facebook, Google etc.) are blocked by Chinese ISPs is because the internet is too powerful, the government MUST help local businesses to survive. Traditional businesses can be effectively protected by things such as Tariff or Quotas, but because internet is so free, without blocking them the Chinese website companies will not stand a chance. In the grand scheme of things, this is almost a necessity to protect Chinese interest, as practically anything on the Internet can be labeled as “Made in the USA”. When the westerners are always distasteful of the goods “Made in China”, Chinese do not want those internet services to essentially KILL Chinese internet industry. The country’s huge base of internet users represents a HUGE profit for the Chinese sites, without the blockage will all flow to the US. (Come on, these sites are the most profitable things these days, how do you think they make money for offering “Free” services?”
Freedom of Speech Part 3 and final – Freedom of protest
Are you allowed to do a demonstration INSIDE the White House? What about INSIDE the Wall Street? Even those in the “Occupy” movement don’t dare to do these, why? Will you be allowed to try to burn yourself to death in front of the White House without being arrested by the Secret Service Agents?
The fact is that demonstrations happens every day in China everywhere, some are for wages, some are for social securities, these are in fact all legal. Three things are illegal however:
1. Protest in restricted areas, such as Tiananmen Square. In fact Tiananmen Square is NOT a public place, but rather like the front lawn of the White House. Yes you may be allowed in but you are not allowed to protest without being arrested. You are Free to non-violently protest in any other public places, hold a sign, put up a booth, what have you. Police will even help you to control the crowd and direct traffic.
So anything such as separating Tibet or Taiwan or Hong Kong are extremely offensive to All "Han" people, the same way as Canadians are offended by people or speech trying to separate Quebec, or British by separation of northern Ireland.
I do agree that the communist government is a little extreme in jailing people for being a separatist. In North America, the government will not jail you, but will sue you until you are broke, have bad credit history and never be able to find a decent job. And if you are a Muslim, you will be on the FBI watchlist.
Freedom of Speech Part 2 - Freedom of "Internet"
Most Chinese not only do not understand English, but most have no interest in English content, such as Youtube, Twitter, Facebook, and even Google, let alone BBC, CNN among others.
We have Tudou (for Youtube), Weibo (for Twitter), Xiaonei (for Facebook) and Baidu (for Google), as well perhaps over 200 national and regional channels of content. All understands what the Chinese want, not what the Westerners want the Chinese to want (what a mouthful~).
If you believe that the social networks have given people more freedom and better connected, then the Chinese have never been freer before to connect with family, friends etc.
You might even think that the government blockage of western service is for propaganda purposes, you can't be more wrong. Since all western media are allowed in Hotels etc. where Westerners frequent. Things such as BBC, CNN among others. You could go to any big hotel in Beijing or Shanghai and have access to those.
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A comment on Conversation: When will China be free?
I applaud you (and many others) for having a global mindset.
However, it's still much too difficult for the entirety of Chinese population to achieve that for a long time.
After all, it's still very much a developing country with 20%+ poverty (poverty as in do not own a house, even the poorest in China owns a TV now a days, yes, even in Tibet).
The good thing is that majority of the government has ALREADY achieved the global mindset, in that they are trying to be a good global player, while balancing the domestic situations.
The biggest thing happening now is that the government is spending $100B+ till 2020 in DeNOx, retrofitting power plants and other pollution sources. Remember that NOx are like 5x more damaging than CO2, so this is a much more effective way of saving the environment.
I don't think these are advertised heavily, but it's a part of the 12th 5-year plan. The law come into effect on Jan. 1, 2012. The target is the same as best of international levels.
Granted, average Chinese have no say in this matter. There were no national referendum on this matter, so no we are not free to make these decisions. But, how many average people understand these events anyways?
It's the government's job to make decision like this and it's the right thing they are doing.
And just to be more frank, this is a GREAT way of spending that money, and stimulating domestic green economy. MUCH better than bailing out European banks from their undying greed. lol.
A reply on Conversation: When will China be free?
Ya I've read most of your posts and I really appreciate a westerner stand up and defend the country. Thank you! I think it definitely takes a person to live in China for a while to really see what's happening and changed since cultural revolution and 1989.
Sorry for the long post(s), but I'm sure you wrote more than I did lol. Your posts and other people's views motivated me to write something in like an hour. First post here on TED. Fortunately my firm got a huge project for Chinese clients right now (10B+) so lots of my colleagues who visited China are changing their opinion of China from those images imposed upon us by Western Media.
Regarding the topic of "Han" people,
I'm Canadian now and I can say I'm proud to be a Canadian and contribute to this society. But "Han" is such a powerful identity among Chinese that it crosses nations. Even the Taiwanese will identify them as "Han" people without question. Indeed "Han" is a constructed identity, constructed from 2000+ years of History. In fact, most educated Chinese today have extensive knowledge about at least last 1000 years of History (especially the bad ones) and a general knowledge of the 2000+ years. Correct me if I'm wrong but same cannot be said about most Greeks, The Persians (Iranians), the Egyptians, and perhaps the Israelis.
To understand what History to us is, you only need to look at the Holy Bible, which, in part is a History book (hopefully not unintentionally offend anyone).
Yes. The "Han" concept is effectively a religion, constantly being refined and redefined.
I'm off topic here but the Point is that IMO the government is only a tool to advance "Han" interest. The current government has done a superb job in this regard, providing the institutions and security. It's exactly the way that a typical "Han" people would want, given that we know what the history looked like in the last 2000+ years, and the projected future.
This is my definition of "Freedom", not whatever the UN says.
A comment on Conversation: When will China be free?
S***, this has been a long essay, because I’m really frustrated by the fact Westerners seems to think Chinese system is so backward. Yet it’s the western system that’s inefficient and dare I to say “non-democratic”, because the elected officials are very much incompetent. Just because you can cast a ballot with a few predetermined choices does not mean it’s a democracy. Democracy means understanding what the people wants and ACT like it. Not just say it. And really the whole system is a marketing show, and those with the deep pocket / most “campaign contributes” will more likely to win because of more air time / advertising etc. People do vote to familiar faces after all.
So China is as much “free” as the western countries, as long as you place our culture to #1 place you will understand the system.
Cheers,
Guang
A comment on Conversation: When will China be free?
Finally, the central government is not ruled by one person, but by a state council of over 100 people (think US Congress) as well as a Permanent Council of ~20 people (think US Senate). Normal day to day operations are decided by Permanent Council members (mostly are seasoned governors, Department heads etc.). The 100+ “Congressmen” typically hold office in their own province, and only get together once a year or on emergency basis to make large decisions for the country, such as the “Five-Year” plans. In fact, some of these “Congressmen” used to be workers, bus drivers, cleaners etc, but have demonstrated their ability to lead and moved up the ladder to where they are now. They are some of the most respected characters in the country and some are legends.
Each Province, Each City also has their own annual meetings of their “Provincial Congress” or “City Council”. Same principle applies. Average citizens are allowed in City Council meetings. (Not sure about the others but they are all televised, i.e. open to public).
So No, you CANNOT hope to change the government in one day, like those in western countries, or for a long time. But the system is certainly most fair and modeled after corporate systems. You CAN actually influence your local “Congressmen” and voice your opinions directly or through peaceful protests. But most likely, because the officials are sooo seasoned and competent you do not need to do that.
A comment on Conversation: When will China be free?
Freedom of Elections
Just where do you think the officials come from anyways? They don’t live forever. Just because the presidents of China typically hold office for a long time (~10+ years) does not mean there is no fair process of election.
There are two election systems in China. One is Western type election, One is “Corporate Ladder”.
For some rural areas, the elections happen in villages and typically done by voice only (i.e. no official ballot). But since everyone knows everyone it’s OK. The elected official can then have a voice in the city hall of a bigger city (which actually governs the villages).
The second source of government officials comes from fresh new people. Each year, the country holds a very stringent entrance test for young professionals. You must pass the test in order to become a government official. The process is very competitive and names are closed from the scorers so no bias (except some under-the-table deals of course). You must pass the entry test, then pass a competency test for the chosen field of government in order to officially be government employee.
Then it becomes a Claim the “Ladder” game. You have to slowly work your way up even to President of China. In fact, the current President of China climbed up the same way as the previous president. No one is from a prestige or rich family (remember it’s only been 60 years since the founding, no family is that powerful yet, unlike the Regans, The Bushes etc.)
What the westerners do not understand is that it’s NOT POSSIBLE for someone random to seek the office. There is NO such thing as career politician because there is no need for those. Everyone who’s in power today have worked their ass off to fend off the competition and achieve their status. It’s much MUCH fair than the Western election system. AND you are guaranteed that the governor of a province has 20+ years of experience managing the cities, government run businesses etc, so they know how to balance a budget
A comment on Conversation: When will China be free?
You are free to look for jobs, send in resumes and hold a high-end job. No one is forcing you to work in textile industry. Just because somehow the western media ALWAYS only show those textile or electronic assembly workers does not mean this is forced work. Those people are all uneducated and unskilled workers and those are high-paying jobs for them, which they can then support their family and children. The alternative is that they can work on farm land all year round and make like 1/10 th of what they make now.
It is unfortunate that those people are poor, uneducated and unskilled, and probably will never have the chance to be something different, but through their hard work, their children can go to college and move up in the society. Remember Chinese literacy rate is still much lower than US, but are growing very fast BECAUSE of these hard-working unskilled labors. They in fact CHOOSE to work so their children can have a better future, same as YOUR PARENTS AND YOU.
Also, you are Free to start up on your own. Own a restaurant or shop. In fact that’s a norm. There are still not a lot of Chains in China so many people have a fighting chance. You can of course be an entrepreneur as long as you can. Most people just don’t have the knowledge to do so.
A comment on Conversation: When will China be free?
Freedom of Movement, Education and Job
Chinese people are free to go to any country they choose to (and can afford to), such as myself. Applying for Passport is very easy, using your birth certificate or citizenship card and get it in a few days. Much faster than Canadian lengthy process. Applying Visas are much much harder and imposed by Foreign Governments. China is NOT North Korea!!!
A rural area farmer is free to move to the big urban centers such as Beijing or Shanghai, in fact this is the major source of urban workers for tasks such as textiles, construction etc. They are free to purchase a property in Beijing or Shanghai, as long as you can afford it. This is the major reason why Shanghai and Beijing housing prices are ~10x of the national average.
You MAY need a permanent address in Beijing in order to hold a high-end job in Beijing thou. However, this is imposed by the companies themselves rather than a law. Imagine if you are a large firm in Beijing, would a person without a Beijing permanent address pass your background check? Probably not.
On a related note, Education is free for everyone up until Middle school (grade 9). If you pass the high-school entry test you can go to high school for free. Otherwise you can either go to tech school or pay up. College is not free of course but plenty of scholarships.
Some good schools do not accept non-local students, but this is very much true here in Canada. When I was in High school here I was rejected from one school because I’m not living in the area. All Colleges in China accept all students in China as long as you pass the test. You are free to choose your own major, minor, interest what have you.
A comment on Conversation: When will China be free?
2. Violent protest or the appearance of violence, to the public or yourself. Including a tank of gasoline and try to burn yourself to death in front of a crowd. Fa-lun-gong as an example. Are they allowed here in the North America? I don’t think anyone is allowed to bring a tank of gas or firearm into the White House can they?
3. Separatist protests as I discussed in Part 1, which include the “Tiananmen Square” event, “Falungong” event, among others. When you try to divide the country you always need to go against the government. Unfortunately people often mistook “Separatist” as purely “Anti-Government”, and correlate this to think that Chinese government will put anyone in jail for speaking up against government practices such as corruption. The fact is that the Chinese government allows such protests as against corruption, and each year the government’s internal affairs takes down more corrupt officials (this is called “Shuang Gui”, look it up) than all the other countries combined. In United States, the corruption is legal and called “Campaign contributions”. How come no one protest for those?
To sum it up, as ordinary citizen or organization, as long as you are not a separatist, protest peacefully in non-restricted areas, you are allowed to request police assistance (requires city approval of course, same as here in Canada).
A comment on Conversation: When will China be free?
The only reason some service sites (Facebook, Google etc.) are blocked by Chinese ISPs is because the internet is too powerful, the government MUST help local businesses to survive. Traditional businesses can be effectively protected by things such as Tariff or Quotas, but because internet is so free, without blocking them the Chinese website companies will not stand a chance. In the grand scheme of things, this is almost a necessity to protect Chinese interest, as practically anything on the Internet can be labeled as “Made in the USA”. When the westerners are always distasteful of the goods “Made in China”, Chinese do not want those internet services to essentially KILL Chinese internet industry. The country’s huge base of internet users represents a HUGE profit for the Chinese sites, without the blockage will all flow to the US. (Come on, these sites are the most profitable things these days, how do you think they make money for offering “Free” services?”
Freedom of Speech Part 3 and final – Freedom of protest
Are you allowed to do a demonstration INSIDE the White House? What about INSIDE the Wall Street? Even those in the “Occupy” movement don’t dare to do these, why? Will you be allowed to try to burn yourself to death in front of the White House without being arrested by the Secret Service Agents?
The fact is that demonstrations happens every day in China everywhere, some are for wages, some are for social securities, these are in fact all legal. Three things are illegal however:
1. Protest in restricted areas, such as Tiananmen Square. In fact Tiananmen Square is NOT a public place, but rather like the front lawn of the White House. Yes you may be allowed in but you are not allowed to protest without being arrested. You are Free to non-violently protest in any other public places, hold a sign, put up a booth, what have you. Police will even help you to control the crowd and direct traffic.
A comment on Conversation: When will China be free?
So anything such as separating Tibet or Taiwan or Hong Kong are extremely offensive to All "Han" people, the same way as Canadians are offended by people or speech trying to separate Quebec, or British by separation of northern Ireland.
I do agree that the communist government is a little extreme in jailing people for being a separatist. In North America, the government will not jail you, but will sue you until you are broke, have bad credit history and never be able to find a decent job. And if you are a Muslim, you will be on the FBI watchlist.
Freedom of Speech Part 2 - Freedom of "Internet"
Most Chinese not only do not understand English, but most have no interest in English content, such as Youtube, Twitter, Facebook, and even Google, let alone BBC, CNN among others.
We have Tudou (for Youtube), Weibo (for Twitter), Xiaonei (for Facebook) and Baidu (for Google), as well perhaps over 200 national and regional channels of content. All understands what the Chinese want, not what the Westerners want the Chinese to want (what a mouthful~).
If you believe that the social networks have given people more freedom and better connected, then the Chinese have never been freer before to connect with family, friends etc.
You might even think that the government blockage of western service is for propaganda purposes, you can't be more wrong. Since all western media are allowed in Hotels etc. where Westerners frequent. Things such as BBC, CNN among others. You could go to any big hotel in Beijing or Shanghai and have access to those.