Oct 21 2011: Andrea, that video was awful and I completely reject it. However, its source was dailykos; not exactly a reputable source.
Conservative leaders I know are perplexed as to why there are still charges of racism at the Tea Party. I can only suggest that some Tea Party organizers are less diligent than others, but I still have not seen any of that garbage at the ones I have attended.
The Pajamas Media column had a link within the article to the Washington Post, which was the basis for their column. Ann Althouse would not consider herself a conservative blogger. I do appreciate the work that the WSJ does and respect their work, and Ms. Althouse and the Washington Post do stellar work as well.
However, when the Communist Party of America and the Socialist Workers Party of America announce support for an event, that event should be suspect. Which was the original point of why I think OWS is problematic.
We will obviously have to agree to disagree; I also have no interest in debating propaganda.
Oct 21 2011: Andrea,
The compliance discussion will get us off track on our earlier discussions, but I will be happy to continue it later. That could and probably should be a whole 'nother thread.
In respect to your comments of racism from Tea Party groups: the link wasn't active, so I could not review what you claimed was said. I will, however, tell you that at any Tea Party event I attended, whenever I and many others saw ANY kind of sign that was racist or bigoted the person with the sign was either asked to leave or to immediately throw away the sign. Most were embarrassed, some indignant, but all complied or they were walked out of the rally. We simply did not tolerate any of that. I have attended 4 rallies in MO and IN. In one case, a police officer came with me to help remove the individual as he was becoming very abusive and belligerent.
Anti-Semitism proof:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/rnc-asks-top-dems-wheres-the-outrage-on-occupy-wall-street-anti-semitism/
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/10/13/more-anti-semitism-at-occupy-los-angeles/
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2011/10/anti-semitism-at-occupy-wall-street.html
http://www.committeeforisrael.com/
There are more, but the point originally was made regarding the language being used by people at OWS events. My assertion is, still, that one can use the term "money-lenders" for everything said about the people to whom this event is directed. It has long been a code word for Jews.
The CPAC event showed people telling that idiot to go away, just as I and many others have done at Tea Party rallies.
You also made a comment about cash raised from Wall Street corporations and individuals donated to Romney and Perry. The headline from this is that President Obama has raised more than all GOP contenders combined.
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/10/19/occupy-barack-obama-has-raised-more-from-wall-street-than-all-the-gop-contenders-combined/
In another reading of the article from the AP, I noticed the article did not quite match the headline, but there is still wiggle room for China in the comments they made.
Karl Denninger is most notably, however, a founding contributer to conservative blog market-ticker.org and is one of the early members of the Tea Party movement ("I cannot take credit for the idea floated on the forum, but I do like it."), is a quote attributed to him from Wikipedia. Rick Santelli's CNBC mention of a tea party followed Mr. Denninger's Blog entry on January 20th, 2009.
On January 20, 2009 Denninger published an article regarding the suggestion to mail tea bags to the white house and to congress. The title of his post was "Tea Party February 1st?," and it was written in direct response to President Obama's inauguration occurring on the same day, even though he openly voted for Obama. The article took issue with the bailouts, the US national debt and "the fraud and abuse in our banking and financial system" which included the predatory lending practices currently at the center of the home mortgage foreclosure crisis.
I do not mean to quibble, but Denninger had a role in helping found the Tea Party movement, but it is a stretch to call him of the founders of the Tea Party. There are too many diverse Tea Party groups scattered around the country, and they rarely have a coordinated message. That is a similarity with OWS, but still significantly different than the DNC and RNC.
We still go back to the fact that Congress passed the laws, and the banks and others used those laws for their own shareholder return. Congress, starting with the Community Reinvestment Act, forced banks and mortgage companies to give loans to people who could not afford them, under penalty of law if they did not do so. There are CRA compliance officers in every bank to be sure the bank follows the law.
Wall Street and Main Street had to follow the rules promulgated by Congress.
Oct 17 2011: Great points from Andrea and Linda. Thanks.
Andrea: I'm well aware that people of all kinds are at the OWS events. I simply do not believe they know where the funding is coming from so they may not know who started the activity. The website was registered months ago by adbusters.org - a self described anti-consumerist and pro-environment organization. I'm not sure you have to be anti-consumerist to be pro-environment but that is what they state.
http://www.adbusters.org/about/adbusters
"Adbusters has launched numerous international campaigns, including Buy Nothing Day, TV Turnoff Week and Occupy Wall Street, and is known for their "subvertisements" that spoof popular advertisements." - Wikipedia.
I would be very surprised if some Tea Party people were advising OWS. They are at cross-purposes in their held beliefs.
Is there too much money coming from Wall Street officials to Politicians? Of course. President Obama received more support from Wall Street in 2008 than did Senator McCain. President Obama is still receiving a lot of support from Wall Street but at a reduced rate than previously. Wall Street employees and officers can generally read the political tea leaves pretty well and will send more money to those they think can win.
Linda: I'm interested in that broad brush description. No one can find a video or audio of any tea party event where a minority is insulted or harmed. But, the accusation still stands without any foundation on which to build it. However, adbusters.org, the primary funder of OWS, has some history of anti-Semitism, the words used still sound eerily familiar to the insults used for centuries in talking about Jews. There is the mis-perception that Jews control Wall Street. Look at many of the screes that come from parts of the radical Islamic world. More later. Thanks for the discussion.
Oct 17 2011: Hi Andrea,
The Communist Party of America announced support last week, and just this morning there is an article from AP discussing China's support for OWS. The Socialist party of America announced support for it a couple of weeks ago. I can find the link if you wish.
There WAS serious planning by Tea Party people, but for the most part, Republican establishment dollars stayed away. Almost all of the Tea Party rallies were bootstrapped by a group of individuals pooling their own money. A couple of rallies I attended, any individual from any party was prohibited from speaking as a representative of that party. In fact, there were numerous Republican officials in Missouri who insisted that if they were to speak they also were to be allowed to press for their own re-election. The Tea Party organizers refused to allow this. The Tea Party was truly an example of grass roots and my point about OWS is that it is a true example of an astroturf movement. Many of the participants have said on their blogs and on the air that they are being paid by various groups and organizations for showing up. I think that is why many of them have trouble articulating why they are there.
The website was registered months ago by Adbusters.org to plan for this event in September. The Tea Party groups, generally, registered their own websites within a month or less of the event they were planning.
I like the quote from Rand Paul, but OWS is blaming groups who have to live with the laws passed by our elected officials. The elected officials are the ones that should be held accountable for the things they do and what results from their actions. No one within OWS is talking that way - it is just anger at capitalism and big banks.
Oct 17 2011: I am suggesting the OWS crowd is anti-Semitic. They use the same code words that have been used for centuries. They are mis-directing their anger at Wall Street and using it as an opportunity to vent their anti-Semitism by calling people names, when the financial meltdown and the mortgage crisis which precipitated it were caused by laws passed by Congress. Wall Street figured out, for awhile, how to make money with those laws but when the unintended consequences of those laws began to occur, Wall Street was held responsible when no Senators or Congressman were. I do agree that there is some dissatisfaction on different sides of the same coin, however the Tea Party is saying too much control, too many taxes whereas OWS is asking for more control and more regulation.
Oct 17 2011: I hope they don't for the sake of the republic. This movement, based upon video and transcripts, is anti-Semitic, and anti-achievement. The terms they are using are an old code. Can't you just hear "money-lenders" when they speak about big bankers and Wall Street in the manner in which they speak about them? "Money-lenders" has been a code for Jews for centuries. Do we really want to ignore anti-Semitic comments and attitudes in this country, too? And speaking as a conservative/libertarian, the OWS does NOT address a cross-partisan concern. I find it amazingly shocking that many participants want everyone else to pay for their ambitions, loans, schooling, ideas, hygiene, and protection so they can express their rights.
Oct 17 2011: Seriously? There has actually been WAY too much coverage based upon the sheer numbers of people attending the occupy events. These numbers are far fewer than many of the Tea Party Rallies, and the press, the talking heads, and the President have paid far greater attention to them than the grass roots rallies. The occupywallstreet.org website was registered back in May or June. There has been some serious planning and dollars spent on this aberration. It is very anti-Semitic and both the Communists and Socialists have announced support. Even the President has signaled support; to say there is no coverage is a denial of the facts.
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A comment on Conversation: Why is there is little or no mainstream media coverage of the 'Occupy Wall Street' protests?
Conservative leaders I know are perplexed as to why there are still charges of racism at the Tea Party. I can only suggest that some Tea Party organizers are less diligent than others, but I still have not seen any of that garbage at the ones I have attended.
The Pajamas Media column had a link within the article to the Washington Post, which was the basis for their column. Ann Althouse would not consider herself a conservative blogger. I do appreciate the work that the WSJ does and respect their work, and Ms. Althouse and the Washington Post do stellar work as well.
However, when the Communist Party of America and the Socialist Workers Party of America announce support for an event, that event should be suspect. Which was the original point of why I think OWS is problematic.
We will obviously have to agree to disagree; I also have no interest in debating propaganda.
Cheers,
Kevin
A reply on Conversation: Why is there is little or no mainstream media coverage of the 'Occupy Wall Street' protests?
The compliance discussion will get us off track on our earlier discussions, but I will be happy to continue it later. That could and probably should be a whole 'nother thread.
In respect to your comments of racism from Tea Party groups: the link wasn't active, so I could not review what you claimed was said. I will, however, tell you that at any Tea Party event I attended, whenever I and many others saw ANY kind of sign that was racist or bigoted the person with the sign was either asked to leave or to immediately throw away the sign. Most were embarrassed, some indignant, but all complied or they were walked out of the rally. We simply did not tolerate any of that. I have attended 4 rallies in MO and IN. In one case, a police officer came with me to help remove the individual as he was becoming very abusive and belligerent.
Anti-Semitism proof:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/rnc-asks-top-dems-wheres-the-outrage-on-occupy-wall-street-anti-semitism/
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/10/13/more-anti-semitism-at-occupy-los-angeles/
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2011/10/anti-semitism-at-occupy-wall-street.html
http://www.committeeforisrael.com/
There are more, but the point originally was made regarding the language being used by people at OWS events. My assertion is, still, that one can use the term "money-lenders" for everything said about the people to whom this event is directed. It has long been a code word for Jews.
The CPAC event showed people telling that idiot to go away, just as I and many others have done at Tea Party rallies.
You also made a comment about cash raised from Wall Street corporations and individuals donated to Romney and Perry. The headline from this is that President Obama has raised more than all GOP contenders combined.
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/10/19/occupy-barack-obama-has-raised-more-from-wall-street-than-all-the-gop-contenders-combined/
Lots of topics and I am enjoying our discussion.
A comment on Conversation: Why is there is little or no mainstream media coverage of the 'Occupy Wall Street' protests?
In another reading of the article from the AP, I noticed the article did not quite match the headline, but there is still wiggle room for China in the comments they made.
Karl Denninger is most notably, however, a founding contributer to conservative blog market-ticker.org and is one of the early members of the Tea Party movement ("I cannot take credit for the idea floated on the forum, but I do like it."), is a quote attributed to him from Wikipedia. Rick Santelli's CNBC mention of a tea party followed Mr. Denninger's Blog entry on January 20th, 2009.
On January 20, 2009 Denninger published an article regarding the suggestion to mail tea bags to the white house and to congress. The title of his post was "Tea Party February 1st?," and it was written in direct response to President Obama's inauguration occurring on the same day, even though he openly voted for Obama. The article took issue with the bailouts, the US national debt and "the fraud and abuse in our banking and financial system" which included the predatory lending practices currently at the center of the home mortgage foreclosure crisis.
I do not mean to quibble, but Denninger had a role in helping found the Tea Party movement, but it is a stretch to call him of the founders of the Tea Party. There are too many diverse Tea Party groups scattered around the country, and they rarely have a coordinated message. That is a similarity with OWS, but still significantly different than the DNC and RNC.
We still go back to the fact that Congress passed the laws, and the banks and others used those laws for their own shareholder return. Congress, starting with the Community Reinvestment Act, forced banks and mortgage companies to give loans to people who could not afford them, under penalty of law if they did not do so. There are CRA compliance officers in every bank to be sure the bank follows the law.
Wall Street and Main Street had to follow the rules promulgated by Congress.
Kevin
A reply on Conversation: Why is there is little or no mainstream media coverage of the 'Occupy Wall Street' protests?
Andrea: I'm well aware that people of all kinds are at the OWS events. I simply do not believe they know where the funding is coming from so they may not know who started the activity. The website was registered months ago by adbusters.org - a self described anti-consumerist and pro-environment organization. I'm not sure you have to be anti-consumerist to be pro-environment but that is what they state.
http://www.adbusters.org/about/adbusters
"Adbusters has launched numerous international campaigns, including Buy Nothing Day, TV Turnoff Week and Occupy Wall Street, and is known for their "subvertisements" that spoof popular advertisements." - Wikipedia.
I would be very surprised if some Tea Party people were advising OWS. They are at cross-purposes in their held beliefs.
Is there too much money coming from Wall Street officials to Politicians? Of course. President Obama received more support from Wall Street in 2008 than did Senator McCain. President Obama is still receiving a lot of support from Wall Street but at a reduced rate than previously. Wall Street employees and officers can generally read the political tea leaves pretty well and will send more money to those they think can win.
Linda: I'm interested in that broad brush description. No one can find a video or audio of any tea party event where a minority is insulted or harmed. But, the accusation still stands without any foundation on which to build it. However, adbusters.org, the primary funder of OWS, has some history of anti-Semitism, the words used still sound eerily familiar to the insults used for centuries in talking about Jews. There is the mis-perception that Jews control Wall Street. Look at many of the screes that come from parts of the radical Islamic world. More later. Thanks for the discussion.
A reply on Conversation: Why is there is little or no mainstream media coverage of the 'Occupy Wall Street' protests?
The Communist Party of America announced support last week, and just this morning there is an article from AP discussing China's support for OWS. The Socialist party of America announced support for it a couple of weeks ago. I can find the link if you wish.
There WAS serious planning by Tea Party people, but for the most part, Republican establishment dollars stayed away. Almost all of the Tea Party rallies were bootstrapped by a group of individuals pooling their own money. A couple of rallies I attended, any individual from any party was prohibited from speaking as a representative of that party. In fact, there were numerous Republican officials in Missouri who insisted that if they were to speak they also were to be allowed to press for their own re-election. The Tea Party organizers refused to allow this. The Tea Party was truly an example of grass roots and my point about OWS is that it is a true example of an astroturf movement. Many of the participants have said on their blogs and on the air that they are being paid by various groups and organizations for showing up. I think that is why many of them have trouble articulating why they are there.
The website was registered months ago by Adbusters.org to plan for this event in September. The Tea Party groups, generally, registered their own websites within a month or less of the event they were planning.
I like the quote from Rand Paul, but OWS is blaming groups who have to live with the laws passed by our elected officials. The elected officials are the ones that should be held accountable for the things they do and what results from their actions. No one within OWS is talking that way - it is just anger at capitalism and big banks.
Kevin
A reply on Conversation: Let's play a game. Each of us answers the question asked by person before us, then addresses another question for next person to arrive.
A comment on Conversation: Let's play a game. Each of us answers the question asked by person before us, then addresses another question for next person to arrive.
What is your favorite day?
A reply on Conversation: Why is there is little or no mainstream media coverage of the 'Occupy Wall Street' protests?
A reply on Conversation: Why is there is little or no mainstream media coverage of the 'Occupy Wall Street' protests?
A comment on Conversation: Why is there is little or no mainstream media coverage of the 'Occupy Wall Street' protests?