• Tony C
  • Pickering Ontario
  • Canada

This conversation is closed.

synthetic life: Great is the design that fools the on-looker.

We are all synthetic life forms- made intelligently and non-natural.

If one can't see that, all credit goes the designer for creating machines they can't believe their not living. No you’re not living machines, just machines that "THINK" they are living. Great is the design that fools the on-looker.

DNA is not natural- True living creatures don't require software programming, but you do!

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    Mar 12 2012: I don't understand why there should be a premise that defines life as "without software"

    As from my materialistic perspective, I don't see a reason for either a creator, nor a reason for something non-materialistic.
    Although there is a continuum between non-living and living matter, life inevitably needs information about it's environment in order to survive. Information needs to be stored (an information carrier).
    In our case, DNA, RNA, amino-acids and our neuronal structure are information carriers (and processors)

    As for programming: a program can mutate and evolve in the right environment without needing any programming. The programming happens as an interaction between the life-form and it's environment.

    Synthetic life is, according to my definition, the life that is created by humans (or computers), so those that have a creator. Or did not go through the same way of abiogenensis as we did.
  • Tony C

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    Mar 12 2012: DNA bio-engineering software programming is Intelligence coded on molecules. Both the scale of the information storage and the level of superior intelligence found in the software programming point to a Designer way over our heads.
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    Zack K

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    Mar 14 2012: first of all you cant support the teary of creation with the bible, because first that is circular and second their are many religious doctrine on creation, so the bible is just as valid as us being held up by a turtle. Your confusing what Im saying, I was just saying that if their is a soul then modern science couldn't comprehend or explain it so the current theories on the brain and what we have observed of the brain to date may be just a part of the self.

    And as for the superhuman DNA, i was talking about human DNA, and by the way what does the bible say about God being human or even a physical thing that requires DNA?

    If the bible is their to explain the fringes of gods ways then how could it be written by man?

    Don,t get me wrong i get what your saying, you just have conflicting ideas
    • Tony C

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      Mar 16 2012: Almighty God, that’s the father of all creation, the only real / true God to all. God could never be made into a man.His son, the first of his creations, even to him it was needed to leave most of himself behind just to become a man. How spirit creatures are constructed is not known, and could never be answered by me or you.

      God is not physical, and never could be reduced to such. Bible does say that even the heavens of the heavens could not contain him. Did he create the heavens so big that they would be bigger than he is.

      The bible is one step ahead of science, because science is the act of learning, were as the bible is just passing on the information already known by those in the know. The bible is testable and found to be very good at what it does say, even though the language is so simple for the people of that day.

      In simple language "the fringes of Gods ways" are hinted at, and to talk about them in detail 3,000 years ago to those people would be a waste of time.

      I will give you one that God questioned Job, and see if you even today have the wisdom to answer now.Job 38:19 Please explain light and the mind. Brightness and darkness even though photons never enter into brain. To the brain what is brightness and what is darkness. That is the question asked those that think they know a thing or two.

      Then think - who could ask such a question like that 3,000 years ago and even have an amazing answer even in our day.
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        Zack K

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        Mar 17 2012: How has the bible told of what you speak of, how does it talk about DNA or even proteins or anything that has been discovered by science?

        To know that light is light and dark is the absence of like is the result of observation (or science). There have been many people ahead of their time, understanding things or thinking about things. This doesn't mean that god told them. And if so how exactly did god tell them what to write in the bible, and if god did then does that mean that everything in the bible is communicated from god?
        • Tony C

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          Mar 21 2012: Light is an illusion created from the complex design of the mind!

          Photons are not bright, and they never make it to the brain anyway. The more information you extract from seeing is translated as detail, which to you comes across as "brightness".Darkness is lack of information and so is translated into darkness.

          In that bible book of Job 38: 19 "Where, now, is the way to where light resides?As for darkness, where, now, is its place,".

          Light does not exist; it is an illusion of the mind. It only exists in the brain, where information is projected as if it is BRIGHT LIGHT.

          Darkness is also in the brain, not as lack of light, but lack of information. In universe is awash with photons and so you can't say darkness is something real because photons are everywhere. Darkness does not exist, but only in the mind, because of the lack of information WE might perceive because of our limitations.

          Now most people never knew that, and you could never explain it to them because the level of science is way over their heads to even understand. That is why the bible book is truthful that God spoke to Job as it is written there. The writer and the man Job could not explain the question God asked, and neither can most people today.

          This wisdom had to come from somewhere, and why can it not just come from God. Logic and science says there is superhuman information out there, both in the DNA programming and in the many Illusions of our realities.

          Matter is not natural, nor is life. Nature should not be a function of molecular machinery and DNA intelligent bio-engineering programming.

          They could never be said to be a fluke of nature, for it in itself is so un-NATURAL.You need to think more deeply on this.

          Things are not that simple and not so straight forward. Counter- intuitive is what they call it in Physics. God is there to see with the logical mind’s eye. But is the mind is closed, so are the "EYES" of the mind.
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    Zack K

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    Mar 13 2012: That is based on the theory of creation. And also assuming that we have a machine like brain then that goes against most beliefs of creation.

    DNA is in fact natural it is made up of naturally occurring elements which make the basic proteins and amino acids and all that. And there is proof that it could have occurred naturally

    We don't require programming at all, we observe our surroundings to better adapt to our environment and the social element of our environment as well. The programming isn't necessarily needed, so we don't require it.
    • Tony C

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      Mar 14 2012: Superhuman intelligent DNA programming is not only non- natural, but it is impossible for it to exist in a realm of quantum mechanics for which there ceases to have any meaning. Just as a picture painting has no meaning to the atoms of the paper.

      So to the information coded on the DNA cannot be understood by atoms, molecules, or the machinery the reads it. Does your computer ever "understand" anything it does, or is it just a blind function of a stupid machine. Your computer can never understand reality; it’s all an illusion - made by the programmer, mimicking the human thoughts.

      The bible says the soul that sins, dies.
      Adam became "a living soul".

      Science shows "life" is just a label for that which can function. Death is a non-functioning label.The mind is STORED INFORMATION - and if that information is lost / deleted, the "soul" of the person is lost too.

      So the bad news is you’re a virtual "person" build on information storage and brain information processing systems, which do not always function in normal parameters. We can remove parts of the brain and so delete selected functions of the "mind". Spirit creatures have spirit "bodies". Is the fundamentals still the same? I can't answer that!

      'Let God be "true" even though ever man is a liar'God is truly alive, but as for his physical creation, perhaps just an illusion would suffice for HOW WOULD KNOW THE DEEP THINGS OF GOD? AND HOW COULD EXPLAIN IT WITH UNDERSTANING?
      If none of this makes sense, that's OK, blood and flesh were never meant to understand even the fringes of Gods ways. If you remain the God's memory you can "live" again with rejoicing of heart. What does it matter as long as you enjoy life to the full that God has given you to live under the sun?

      Ecclesiastes 9: 1-12 (try not to cry too much, you'll wet the key board).
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    Mar 13 2012: Hi Tony.
    I agree with you on what our bodies are, we are mechanical machines of mid blowing complexity. As a Christian I have no problem identifying our manufacturer.
    What makes us human however is our spiritual component. This is an eternal non-material element which is the real you. We are promised an upgraded machine in due course that we can play with in eternity. How cool is that ?

  • Tony C

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    Mar 13 2012: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/creation_evolution_debate/messages/322060?m=e&o=0&tidx=1

    - Artefacts of outside intelligence.
    - (Lot2 second law) Second Law- Randy - get your intelligent design GRADE up to speed LOT2 –
    - Abiogenesis is a closed system to carefully regulated energy inputs.

    If you look closely, life is no alive. Physical matter is energy only, with no physical properties.
    Atoms are always dead, for "life" ceases to have meaning at the quantum level. Life is an artistic illusion of an artificial reality that CAN NOT naturally exist. That is why you are a molecular machine running on intelligent bio-engineering programming. Atoms can never improve on themselves, and can never die, so fighting to live is stupid thinking. Without an intelligent outside programmer, purpose and function which have no meaning on the atomic scale. So there would be no need to LIVE and have MEANING and PURPOSE to live and FUNCTION for living if all that - cannot exist on the quantum world. Atoms would not STRIVE to better themselves, if all that is impossible and meaningless. Only an intelligent outside programmer can create the illusion of meaning, purpose, and function for a machine to look as if it were alive. To an atom, meaning, purpose, function and "alive" are not accessible, a closed system to these qualities (lot2) . To be open to these qualities would have to come from outside, an outside source of intelligence for atoms and molecules, and molecular machinery can never be intelligent of themselves, it always must come from outside if it is an open system for information input.

    Sorry about a spelling- it was late.
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      Zack K

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      Mar 13 2012: that is based on current science, we don't have the technology to prove or disprove or even study the soul. Science may one day be able to comprehend and/or define the soul but, because we can't see life (if there is "life" it would be a soul, to me at least) we cannot say it doesn't exist.