- Hitesh Paarth
- Jammu
- India
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Is Abortion good or bad???
Plase share your views on this Topic of Abortion.What do you think,are you against it or with it..pls share
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Sarah Lange
Charles Spencer
Kevin Claiborne
but to keep it simple: I believe each woman should have the right to determine whether or not she wants to have an abortion (sad decision, but should ultimately be left up to her and not the law)
secondly, I feel that with the choice of whether or not to have one, people will abuse it, unfortunately, but I would rather have the power to make my own decisions than have someone make them for me on the basis of a law.
I think abortion is "bad" for the unborn child. Possibly good for a rape/incest victim, but the act of killing babies is not good.
I am however glad that my mother did not abort me. but she could have, and she made the right choice.
Daniela Wong Gonzalez
Cat Lever
I don't subscribe to "pro-death" or "anti-life" labels, I advocate for less children in foster homes, women's rights to health and safety, and minimal "backyard abortions".
Allison Martyn
http://www.ted.com/conversations/9596/for_pro_lifers_out_there_do.html
Sara Henderson
chad manderscheid 10+
Is war good or bad? I would say that war is always "bad" but it is still sometimes the only way forward out of a bad situation when you have been attacked. Some people would say that there are good wars. Hard for me to believe if you insist on something being purely good. Essentially it is the same with abortion in that in fact everyone loses to some extent. In abortion however the woman is virtually never the warmonger. So far as I have heard NO woman ever used artificial insemination with the express purpose of having an abortion. The evidence shows that a man is "usually" involved as instigator. If, as some have recently insisted, every fertilized egg is given full human rights and the protection of the law and then we investigate every miscarriage as a possible homicide, how will you prosecute God? Since He who is all powerful allows the majority of such " persons" to die before birth. If the termination of any pregnancy is murder and the majority of such single celled "humans" never implant or die later without human intervention would that not make Him the biggest abortionist of all? Which is really weird since pro lifers insist that He intends every fetus to be born. If you carry the silly idea to its extreme pseudo-logical conclusion shouldn't we jail someone for every onanic loss of sperm? Or are we only protecting those sperm who have accomplished their mission by whatever means, including rape? I fully agree with Colleen and would further suggest that until such time as men get a womb then only real womben should have the veto. Or alternatively if you can make men incapable of rape or deceit, then I would support some form of penalty for those few women who may actually use abortion as their main form of birth control. Isn't it strange that so many pro-lifers also wish to curtail ANY form of birth control when they say it is the "baby killing' they want to stop?
Colleen Steen 500+
Isn't it also strange that those who are against abortion, even when legal, kill innocent people when bombing clinics and shooting OB/GYN doctors and nurses who are not only performing legal abortions, but also providing many other health care services to women? Unfortunately, innocent women who are seeking health care services other than abortion are also the victims of the protesters. Killing people to stop killing is their justification? Doesn't make much sense does it! It seems very hypocritial and contradictory to me.
Branislav Ivkovic 10+
I, however, think that up to the 3rd month of pregnancy women (and only them) should be allowed to decide what they want to do with their body. It is absolutely their choice - and men never seem to understand that.
I am appalled when I see all those horrible posters depicting the procedure often used in political and religious propaganda trying to scare women into not having an abortion. As if deciding to go with it is not difficult enough...
Obey No1kinobe 50+
Firstly I'm a male and this subject should be weighted to female voices - not exclusively, but they are the ones facing reproductive situations/challenges/choices and consequences. The voice of the fetus should also be represented. Thirdly fathers. Lastly other commentators especially male priests, immans etc.
At some point it comes down to the rights of the mother versus the rights of the unborn baby.
I suggest most situations where abortion is being contemplated are undesirable situations - but they happen.
Not all are the same from an ethical perspective.
A severely formed baby is a different scenario to being irresponsible about contraception.
A child of rape. A mother who may die from birth.
There is also a continuum of development. A fertilised egg is not the same as a 9 month old unborn baby - in my view.
Speaking controversially, does a 3 week old fetus have more or less consciousness and ability to suffer than a cow, dolphin or dog. I acknowledge the potentials are different. Just offering a different paradigm.
Perhaps the consequences of not having legal abortion should also be factored in. Underground abortions and unwanted children etc. I wouldn't make it illegal but am all for people taking responsibility for contraception and no rape.
Robert Winner 50+
Hitesh, I speak as an American with limited knowledge of what the problems of abortion are in the country of India. Could you please advise me of the laws, cultural views, and religious thoughts are in India.
Colleen Steen 500+
Your comment is refreshingly wise, insightful and without judgment. I honestly don't understand how anyone can believe s/he can judge, or decide what a woman "should" and "should not" do regarding this very difficult decision. In the years I worked with women who faced this traumatic decision, I often asked myself if I could ever have an abortion? My conclusion, after facing the question with many women, is....I don't know. Thankfully, I never had to make that decision.
I am a woman, who knows what it is like to experience a pregnancy to full term and be blessed with children. I also have witnessed and felt the pain, confusion, frustration, anger, and the gamet of emotions felt by women who had an unwanted pregnancy for various reasons.
I LOVE Jonathan Gronli's comment early on this thread...
" I think the abortion debate itself is bad due to the fact that predominantly it's been held by men who tried to silence the voices of the group who would be directly affected by their decisions - women".
It is, as you say Robert, "abortion has become a religious and political issue", and it really is an issue that is personal and medical... a decision to be made by the woman and her partner if there is one. As a woman who has had children, worked with women facing this decision, I could never decide "yes" or "no" for myself, because thankfully, I was never personally faced with the question for myself.
My perception of those men, who would like to make the decision for women, and who obviously would never have to face the decision for themselves, is that they are simply trying to control something which they cannot ever personally understand.
Hitesh Paarth
I too belong to a small town. And you won't believe that in here people think that a girl child is a big burden for the family because of some marriage customs here in india.. So what they do,they go through the test "Pre birth sex Determination" and if they figure out that the child is female, they go for abortion.
This is not only in some parts of india,but prevalent in most parts of india...
So there are two alternatives either Make Abortion equivalent to murder n who does this should be punished under the trail of murder or To Ban the Pre Birth Sex Determination Test.
Colleen Steen 500+
Is abortion legal in India?
If so, there are reputable doctors who would perform an abortion simply because the developing child was not the prefered sex?
Hitesh Paarth
yes it is legal in india, but the question here is why to murder a girl child only because of her sex.This is bad!!
Robert Winner 50+
Hitesh Paarth
Yes you are right and May be in some upcoming years,if government take this matter seriously,This practice will be reduced..
Colleen Steen 500+
I do not percieve abortion to be murder, nor does the legal system in the USA. I also do not agree that your proposed "two alternatives" are the only solutions.
If it is legal, and some health care professionals are performing the proceedure ONLY to abort the fetus when confirmed to be female, it sounds like education regarding cultural beliefs, and/or regulations for the health care professionals are needed.
Manue M 10+
Said that, i am paradoxically NOT AGAINST abortion. I do celebrate life. But at least before a fetus is viable, (if not weeks before, this is another subject) I believe women should have the right to abort.
There are many different reasons for abortion, and I will only look at a few and on the babie's side.
First of all, to reply to some previous comments, incestuous relationships often has a very negative impact genetically and psychologically on the baby. In some cases, life for the baby will be extremely challenging (with high risk of heavy handicap) and sad.
Second, In some countries, where only one child is the norm, i think people abuse from the right they have to abort. However, I have visited an orphanage in those kind of countries and I can tell you that some sick and handicapped kids have really a very miserable life there. They are imprisoned in their own body and lack of love. Even thus, healthy children often are ok once they are adopted.
I hope society will evolve to the point that every child, who ever he is, and every women (who ever she is) with an unwanted pregnancy can be sure they will find social support, plus love and understanding around them. Also, better education will, I think contribute to diminish the number of unwanted pregnancies. I believe the choice should belong to the woman and no judgement should be done. If the society evolves in a positive way, i believe abortion should decrease.
So, as a conclusion, I would say:
We need to analyze why women in societies find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy. And then ask ourselves how society can change, to contribute to decreasing the number of unwanted pregnancies and the number of abortion WITHOUT causing violence on women, violence on children and without increasing issues with over population.
sanghun lee
Zared Schwartz
Cornelia Coricovac
In this respect any person that really wants to avoid the trouble of an abortion or the commitment to an unwanted pregnancy, should really, really take care to avoid this pregnancies! However I understand that nothing in life is 100% safe, and there are other circumstances to get involved in an unwanted pregnancy (i.e. rape) so it’s good to be prepared to face anything…
To cut the story short, to me the bottom line is that you (and your partner, if there is one) will have to decide if you will take the life of a child or not? So therefore the question would be, is killing good or bad? Society have answered already to this question, it depends very much of the circumstances! In a self defense act in most countries I think you don’t go to jail but you get to live with the consciousness that you have killed a person and the stress that may involve the process. So I take the abortion that equals to an unwanted pregnancy as a human right, a self defense right to an unwanted/ unable/ unqualified/ impossible to undertake a long term commitment. And as long as it’s your decision, you will live with it, not the church, not the relatives, nobody else but you!
Comment deleted
Cornelia Coricovac
I would never say that men don’t have a word in this decision, they are directly involved in the pregnancy act, however I wonder do really men like spreading children around the world? Do they really protect themselves from the unwanted pregnancies in the first place, and secondly are they really so relaxed with the idea of having children with any woman that maybe accidentally they left pregnant? Or maybe we are just talking words here, and the reality is that is ever the case of unwanted pregnancy the partner is the first one to send the woman for abortion?
Branislav Ivkovic 10+
Patient: I don't know what to do.
Doctor: I can't tell you what to do. I can only tell you that it is your choice.
Patient: Maybe it shouldn't be.
Doctor: But it has to be. When it comes to abortion, everybody has an opinion. Everybody is going to want to tell you what to do. If this were 1972 - you wouldn't have a choice. Now you do. But it's still hard. And even after you've made the most difficult and personal decision that there is, it's still not safe because you have some fanatic who claims to value life and can walk into an abortion clinic and blow it up. You are the only one who know if you're ready to have a child. Everybody else's opinion is just background noise. So, if you want to keep the baby - I'll support you. You want to give it up for adoption, I'll help. You want an abortion, I'll do it. I am not here to judge you. I just need you to know that whatever decision you make is for you - not for me or anybody else - but for you.
This is how the conversation between every doctor and woman thinking about an abortion should go.
Peter Law 30+
I remember the bill being passed in the uk many years ago. It was designed to help women in real need & it was a popular bill. It has degenerated into a contraceptive. Apparently there is a 911 type body count every single day among pre-birth children. The mother's womb is the most dangerous place a child can be; quite the opposite of the way things should be.
Colleen Steen 500+
A mother's womb CAN be the most dangerous place a child can be. Because of the very close connection between mother and child, if the mother does not feel "safe", then the child probably will not be safe either. A woman, enduring an unwanted pregnancy, usually does not feel safe or content, which is why, in some instances, abortion may be the appropriate choice, made by that particular woman....the one and only person who has that choice....unless there is a partner who is also sharing that choice.
Before abortion was legal, it was not unusual for women to perform abortions on themselves, or have it done by questionable people under dangerous, unsanitary conditions. It was not unusaul for women to become very ill, and/or die from hemorraging and/or infections. It was not unusual for women to abort after being beaten by the man who fathered the child.
There are many circumstances Peter, that may "turn any stomach", and there are many scenarios that cause the womb to be unsafe for a developing child. Each and every scenario needs to be evaluated with an open heart and mind for the health and safety of all participants. That is why it is a personal/medical decision, rather than dictated by anyone's personal religious or political beliefs.
chad manderscheid 10+
Peter Law 30+
You seem to be saying that if a feutus is not viable it is not a child, I beg to disagree. It is pretty much all there at 6-weeks, it just grows after that. A full time pregnancy isn't viable without a lot of attention; feeding, changing, warmth etc. You wouldn't be viable if thrown overboard at sea; this does not make you any less human.
I am just trying to speak up for those who cannot speak up for themselves, & to be honest it makes me sick that this case has to be made in our so-called civilised society. Of course there are special cases, & great compassion is needed, all I say is that the child should get the benefit of any doubt.
Colleen Steen 500+
Viable:
"capable of living;born alive with such form and development of organs as to be normally capable of living; capable of growing or developing; capable of working, functioning, or developing adequately; capable of existence and development as an independent unit".
What about the viability of very young women, children really, who have been raped Peter? Have you ever seen 10-12 year old girls carrying a child because they were impregnated by an unknown rapist, or a relative rapist? You want to talk about something that makes you sick Peter? Which "child" (the mother or unborn child) would you deny the right to grow and live naturally to be "viable"?
You are correct Peter..."compassiion is needed". When are you actually going to start feeling compassion, rather than following blindly behind some dogma?
chad manderscheid 10+
chad manderscheid 10+
Peter Law 30+
I hope this is out of context; if not then we are further down the slope than I thought.
Colleen Steen 500+
The topic is abortion:
"the expulsion of a nonviable fetus; spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus during the first 12 weeks of gestation".
Peter Law 30+
If you believe that, then you are naive . The goalposts have moved considerably in the last couple of decades & continue to do so. Any way this is why I think abortion is 'generally' a bad idea.
Colleen Steen 500+
Peter Law 30+
Birth control. :- in a perfect world it would probably not be necessary, but that isn't where we live. Sex is for building a bond between mums & dads to strengthen the family unit, as well as procreating. Personally I have no issue with birth control.
It is true that my Christian commitment colours my opinions, however on this issue we can leave that aside if you like. I agree that the woman has the right to decide what to do with her body. What rights then does the child have ? The child doesn't get a vote. As the damage inflicted on the child is immeasurably more serious than that on the woman, this seems unfair.
Colleen makes the valid point that I am a man. I have no control over that; however by far the majority of my close friends are women, I relate to them better than men & they are the majority in church around here. I feel I am sympathetic; many men today are a complete disgrace. Even among my friends there are many in relationships which are soured by the men, to a greater or lesser extent.
It is now very easy to follow the gestation of the human child in the womb. Year on year the age of viability is being lowered. Almost before the woman realises she is pregnant the feutus is a little person. We really have to get to grips with this, it is not bible thumping, it is reality. If you want to abort, then you have to destroy a child. Probably with a lot of pain. These are the facts no-one wants to admit. We try & dress it up in order to make it more palatable, but the child loses out. Someone needs to make the case for the child. I have a wee pal called Eve. Her mum was deserted when she was conceived. Abortion was one option, thank god it was rejected. She's the light of many lives.
:-)
Colleen Steen 500+
You say in the above comment that your christian commitment colours" your opinions, and "on this issue we can leave that aside"? In case you haven't noticed, you have not left it aside.
You agree that the woman "has the right to decide what to do with her body"...that is real progress Peter...Kudos to you my friend!!!
If you are genuinely concerned about the children Peter, it would be helpful to consider what happens to an unwanted child who is born because of incorrect information and religious presure. These are the children I often met at the shelter and as a case reviewer for SRS (the agengy that oversees children in state custody). These were the children I met after they grew up and landed in jail. The damage "inflicted on the child" who is born of a woman because of any external presure is far greater than the trauma of an abortion Peter.....rest assured.
Those men you speak of Peter (your friends), who are "a complete disgrace" and who "sour relationships"...how do you think/feel they are with children they fathered? If they are a disgrace and sour relationships how do you think that is impacting their children?
You are right Peter...I make a valid point that you are a man. I will make another valid point, that as a man, you cannot dictate how a woman's body will be used. There is definitely something to "get to grips with" here Peter...good luck with that. The only one here "trying to "dress it up", to support your own beliefs, is you Peter.
Allison Martyn
"the mother's womb is the most dangerous place a child can be;"
... is SO powerful. I haven't thought of it from that perspective before. If abortion methods are used a simply as birth control - unborn children are definitely the most at risk people in the world. Wow.
Colleen Steen 500+
I agree that it is a very powerful statement, and I'm sure Peter wrote it for that reason. Thankfully, any health care professionals, shelter staff, rape crisis center staff, councelers, family center staff, social services staff, etc. etc., that I have ever worked with DO NOT advocate abortion as birth control. Everything I have ever heard, or seen in writing, including all educational/informational materials, discourage the use of abortion as a birth control.
In my experience, every single woman who is considering abortion is counceled extensively. Are there women who have more than one abortion? Yes...occasionally. We cannot follow them around and try to protect them in every moment of their lives. We can only offer information.
Allison Martyn
Colleen, would you take a look at this and tell me what you think?
http://www.ted.com/conversations/9596/for_pro_lifers_out_there_do.html
Colleen Steen 500+
I KNOW that the issue is "thrown around", often with very little understanding of how traumatic it is for women/girls, and how traumatic the on-going ramifications are. In your comment above Allison, you write..."experience with "moms" who choose abortion...". Many of those who came into the shelter pregnant are "little girs" in my perception...they are NOT moms.
Not only has my experience been in the context of intentional serious conversations, but I volunteered in a shelter, and a family center for over 3 years. In that time, we were interacting with many women/girls, the rape crisis center, and various other social service agencies. I then volunteered with the dept. of corrections for 6 years, working mostly with offenders of rape and domestic violence.
I wrote what I think about your new topic at that site...I've thought a LOT about it:>)
If those who want to insist that every pregnant woman/girl, carry the pregnancy to term REGARDLESS of the circumstances, we should be seeing these people "out there" working with these women/girls and their children, and/or working with the men who raped and impregnated them!!!
Jacob Miller 10+
Colleen Steen 500+
Unless one is faced with this decision personally, or as a partner, It is very difficult to understand and even more difficult to decide. Those who judge, would simply like to be in control of someone else's life.
Verble Gherulous 20+
I heard, in this story, one call that the Counseling Center made. She called a woman who had been considering abortion: she said, "I was just checking to see if you made your decision . . . oh . . . you went ahead with it? OK, then." and hung up. I was shocked by the utter disregard, the casting aside of this person who just made this difficult and painful decision.
That conversation is an example of a society is too emotionally immature to discuss abortion with any sort of logic or composure. Christ calls us to love - even those who make choices we don't like. I wish in my heart of hearts that person would have said, "Can you make sure to have some follow up care? Do you need someone to talk to? We're here to listen."
Yety, we are incapable of reconciling the fact that abortion, while a termination of life, is still a fundemental right of a person's control over their own body. Until we mature enough to love, and not condemn, we can never build a society in which women would never see abortion as a viable choice. However, as for now and in the foreseeable future, it is.
Colleen Steen 500+
I appreciate your wise and non judgemental words. I would like to remind us that those facilities called "abortion clinics", usually are full service OB/GYN clinics, meaning that they provide all services including pre natal care, counceling services, cancer diagnosis and treatment, etc. etc. They do not simply do abortions, and I bristle a little at that label because there are MANY woman going to those clinics for other health services.
In fact, many years ago, when there were protests, picketers, and doctors being shot in and around these OB/GYN clinics, I had cancer, and was trying to attend a follow-up visit with my doctor after a surgical proceedure. Because her office was in the same building as planned parenthood, I, and many other women could not get to our appointments. It didn't make any difference to the protesters that we older women were seeking medical attention.
I have friends who councel women in the OB/GYN clinics, rape crisis center, and I have done that myself in the shelter. We give them ALL information, support them with their decision, and provide follow-up counceling regardless of their decision. It IS a very difficult and painful decision Verble, which you insightfully recognize. It is not taken lightly by anyone that I am aware of.
I would like to see those people who judge women for having an abortion, spend their time and effort working with the men who impregnate women without regard for their mental or physical safety and well being. I would like to see those people who judge, spend some time volunteering in a rape crisis center or shelter.
I think you know Verble that I do not practice a religiion, but I am somewhat familier with the bible:>) As I recall, it says something like...."judge not lest you shall be judged"? And there's something else about people who live in glass houses should not throw stones, or something like that?
Again Verble, I appreciate your wise insight...thank you for that:>)
Verble Gherulous 20+
Personally, i think we have the debate all backwards: if we truly want a world where there is no abortion, then we have to create a society in which every pregnancy is wanted, expected, and is a happy occasion. And no I'm not saying that can be legislated, but I will say that it starts by teaching our young men that young women are to be cherished and respected, not used and left.
Colleen Steen 500+
Comment deleted
Colleen Steen 500+
"...a woman made a choice...No one, no one except her can make that choice".
chad manderscheid 10+
Kevin Brian Carroll
Abortion is the ending of a gestational process. It's not the killing of a viable person. If the termination of that gestational process is detrimental to the host organism (woman or dog or cat or whatever) then the termination of that process is bad. If it is physically beneficial to the host, then the termination of that gestational process is good. Humanity hasn't the accuracy or the inalienable right to define what constitutes an objective standard concerning the preservation or termination of any biological process - even life itself. Ultimately, what is agreed upon within a society is what constitutes the relative good and the relative bad in all cases.
There is no true morality that exists beyond the dictates established by humans who have agreed among themselves and willingly accepted for their own specific cultural community cluster. Imposing such a dictate upon a defined group of people who do not share in that specific cultural agreement is akin to an invasion by the offending community cluster, and is itself a violation of the invaded groups own established morality. War - or armed insurrection - is usually the result of such invasion, depending on the relative strength, one group versus the other. In that case one group's good is the other group's bad, and nothing good comes from what develops from there.
Gerald O'brian 50+
Carlos Carvalho
Let's take the entity "abortion" aside for a little moment, let's face pregnancy. Pregnancy is the result of a human interaction, a very specific interaction that can be made at any moment in life, sometimes it is between two well established people that make this choice.
Very often it's not, it's the result of a lack of reasoning from people too young, too poor, too unadjusted or it could even be forced.
In the first case, the choice to have offspring (or I like to see it, the full expression of humanity, the reasoning in choosing the moment to procreate), the interruption of this process is a deep and sad trauma for whatever the reason is, so, it's not this kind of pregnancy we have to care about at this moment, right?
Now, when this result comes from the second hypothesis, what really differentiates this unwanted, unbearable pregnancy from an infection?
Thinking in a strictly logic way: At this situation we have a foreigner being using this woman's resources to grow. It's not her (half of the genes aren't) and the outcome is not the intended at first.
I really do believe that in those cases, the situation is of an infection by a potentially highly intelligent life form, but an infection nevertheless as in the sense of an unwanted, detrimental form of life growing from the resources of another being.
If we let aside any emotional or cultural weight, the decision is somewhat simple. And I know this is not the more popular view around, but as a father, I'm really convinced that any even slightly unwanted pregnancy should not be allowed to go forward for I shiver just imagining one of those little, fragile creatures in the hands of someone who utterly hates them or blames them for their own failure.
Colleen Steen 500+
Are some moral judgements causing the birth of little fragile, vulnerable, children into the hands of someone who utterly hates them and/or blames them for their own situation? Perhaps, and that is sad.
Research shows us that from the time of conception, babies are influenced by the mother and the environment around them. So, even if the plan is to give the baby up for adoption, the moral judgement imposed on women by moral leaders to NOT have an abortion, is often causing the baby to live for at least 9 months in challenging circumstances, and often they are drug and/or alcohol addicted when they are born.
Are we honestly doing the child a favor by forcing the pregnancy to go to term? Or does this belief feed someone's own moral judgements? I say it is the latter. It is not, in any way a gift to the child.
Ehis Odijie 10+
I wouldn’t call myself religious by any standard. I think religion is an unfortunate distraction in this debate - advocated sometimes mix-up abortion and gay right as one whole moral debate which to me is a huge disservice to this commonsense issue.
Colleen Steen 500+
You ask..."What if there was no mechanism to terminate pregnancy until birth..."'
There ARE mechanisms to terminate pregnancy, which have been in use since the beginning of time for humans, so that question does not seem relevant.
Also, I do not see any connection between abortion and gay rights, so that also seems like a totally different question.
Ehis Odijie 10+
I do not doubt that abortion has been around for a long time. In fact there is a long history of abortion that has no starting point . . the knowledge was esoteric hence there was this other practice of Infanticide which disappeared after abortion revolution.
You are correct that i tried to address a different question, that is because i think the debate is not conducted in the proper manner. If you agree on my definition of abortion then the question of 'unintended pregnancies' will appear more like a fancy term for Unwanted Child. Then we can have a proper debate . . .
Colleen Steen 500+
I am aware of infanticide. If you do not think the debate is "conducted in the proper manner", I suggest you start your own debate.
The question, as presented, is simple and uncomplicated.....
"Is Abortion good or bad???Plase share your views on this Topic of Abortion.What do you think,are you against it or with it..pls share".
Colleen Steen 500+
I was trying to keep us on topic with the question as presented in our previous exchange. The author/facilitator of this discussion (Hitesh Paarth) has brought your concern into the conversation, and states:
"The Reason i put this question in light because i want to present the condition of small towns in india...... here people think that a girl child is a big burden for the family because of some marriage customs here in india.. So...,they go through the test "Pre birth sex Determination" and if they figure out that the child is female, they go for abortion".
I wanted to let you know in case you did not notice that your issue was brought into the conversation by the facilitator, so in my perception, that offers an opportunity to address the issue.
Ehis Odijie 10+
Colleen Steen 500+
We seem to be in agreement with the fact that there is no simple answer to the question, especially without a given context. Those who would like to answer yes/no/good/bad/right/wrong simply do not have all appropriate information, and may be so "stuck" in their own preference that they do not want to have all information.
While I am aware of infanticide, I was not aware of the use of abortion to terminate a pregnancy when it was determined that it was a female, until Hitesh explained this practice in this thread. Every day....every moment is an education. Thanks for your patience with me Ehis:>)
Hitesh Paarth
thanks a lot........
E G 10+
Colleen Steen 500+
I do not believe abortion will go away, so it is better, in my perception, to be legal, and done in a safe, sterile environment rather than what has often happened in the past. Women will take charge of their/our bodies, which we have a right to do.
That being said, education is important when dealing with abortion. For example, I do not think it is a good birth control practice, which is what some women use it for. This practice definetely adversly impacts the health and well being of the woman.
For those who are against abortion for any reason, I'll tell you about a young woman of 17, who came into the shelter pregnant by her father for the 3rd time. Would you demand that she carry that pregnancy to term and live with the constant reminder of the abuse and violation of her human rights by a person who was supposed to love and cherish her as his daughter?
I appreciate Jonathan Gronli's comment on this thread...
" I think the abortion debate itself is bad due to the fact that predominantly it's been held by men who tried to silence the voices of the group who would be directly affected by their decisions - women".
Seth Powell 10+
"I do not believe abortion will go away so it is better in my opinion that it be legal..."
Opponents of abortion often equate it with murder.
Interestingly, murder does not seem to be a eradicable behavior either.
Should we legalize it (common law murder) as well?
The basis of the legal system is how society responds to reoccuring harmful activities. Your reasoning seems faulty here. Not that I necessarily equate abortion with common law murder, but I am interested in hearing why you think your reasoning is sound in one case and not the other.
In response to your story of the poor girl who was abused and impregnated by her father - I think the difference in opinion on the topic of abortion arises from the same place all disagreements arise from: a difference of perspective.
When viewing it from the mother's side, it seems awful to make her carry it to term. From the child's side, it seems awful to deny her the gift of life because of the circumstances of her conception. I do not think the life of a baby girl conceived of two consenting adults is any more valuable than that of one conceived by an incestuous rape. Life is a secular miracle that I, for one, can raise a glass and shed a tear for.
I cannot fathom the emotional stress involved in the type of situation you describe, but I do not think our legal framework ought to be based on an emotional sentiment - or else we would probably legalize the murder in many revenge scenarios (cheating spouse/business partner, etc.), as well as theft by the very poor.
SEP
*If abortion were to be criminalized, I think we would have to make it possible for a person in a situation as such as you describe would be able to bring a civil suit against her abuser for emotional distress in carrying said child. Of course, the girl could put the baby up for adoption immediately, and the child could be shielded from knowledge of the civil suit and the circumstances of her biological mother, if so preferred.
Colleen Steen 500+
You are absolutely correct..."The basis of the legal system is how society responds to reoccuring harmful activities". Which is why abortion was legalized.
You are absolutely right again..."the difference in opinion on the topic of abortion arises from the same place all disagreements arise from: a difference of perspective".
The topic here is not about cheating spouses, business partners, theft, or civil suits, etc. It is about abortion, which is legal...at least in the state where I reside.
Colleen Steen 500+
Your first question..." OK, so why is murder not legalized?".
This is an issue you can address with your legislative representatives.
It appears that you want to talk about domestic violence, homicide resulting.
You have twice brought this into your comments... "legalize the murder in many revenge scenarios (cheating spouse/business partner, etc.)", "murder in the case of a cheating spouse also seems justified".
It is not surprising that you do not understand my comments. I am on topic:>)
Comment deleted
Verble Gherulous 20+
The distiction between abortion and murder is this: the fetus is a part of the woman's body, and until such time as it is viable without that womb, the woman has full decision making rights, imho. We tend to try to paint women with the same brush as Gacy, Colombine, or Islamic extremists, and it is simply an improper comparison.
Colleen Steen 500+
*You miss quoted me again...what I wrote in my first post is:'
"I do not believe abortion will go away, so it is better, in my perception, to be legal, and done in a safe, sterile environment rather than what has often happened in the past".
That statement, of course, goes along with my knowledge of what was done in the past, which I clearly express.
*The question, as presented, does not ask us to compare abortion with murder, and although I realize that some people consider abortion murder, depending on what his/her personal opinions are, that is not the topic question. You apparently think it "should" be the question, and if so, you can start that conversation. You apparently are not content with abortion being legal, and if so, I suggest you talk with your legislative representatives. An argument with me is not going to change the fact that abortion is legal.
,
*My original comment does not defend anything, but rather, offers my perceptions and preferences, based on my life experiences, including, but not limited to, volunteer work wth women and children in shelters, family center, work with offenders of domestic assault/sexual crimes who are incarcerated, and my experience opening my home as a "safe house" for women for years.
Seth, this conversation with you is finished. It feels, at this point like harrassment because you simply want to say what you want to say without listening. You don't need to try to create an argument with me to express yourself.