This conversation is closed.

Corruption keeps society in the dark

A corrupt society doesn’t want the best people employed by it. This is because thorough people will solve problems and that means digging deep in the dirt, to get to the root of why something isn’t working, hence the hatred of whistle-blowers and protesters. Lazy and cowardly employees (the ignorant) are already corrupt and therefore will only touch the surface of difficulties i.e. treat them cosmetically.

Force is trying to take a short cut, passed the route of understanding. It is kicking open a door, rather than than trying the handle because you don’t think you’ve got the time to figure things out. Criminals use force – the law abiding use patience. Speed is therefore an addiction and tolerance cold turkey.

  • Feb 21 2012: Hi Tony.
    As you posted this in the debates section I'm going to criticize what you wrote in order to involve myself in the discussion.

    "A corrupt society doesn’t want the best people employed by it. This is because thorough people will solve problems and that means digging deep in the dirt, to get to the root of why something isn’t working, "
    Subjective bias; how do you define "best people", and does those people have a higher value compared to others?
    And how do you define if something "is" working or not?

    ", hence the hatred of whistle-blowers and protesters. Lazy and cowardly employees (the ignorant) are already corrupt and therefore will only touch the surface of difficulties i.e. treat them cosmetically."
    Peer pressure and conformity are commonly used to describe the reasoning behind how whistle-blowers can be treated.
    I wonder, how and in what way are the lazy, ignorant and the cowardly employees corrupt?

    "Force is trying to take a short cut, passed the route of understanding. It is kicking open a door, rather than than trying the handle because you don’t think you’ve got the time to figure things out. Criminals use force – the law abiding use patience."
    Your use of "is" confuses me. Generally speaking, law enforcement practice force to uphold the law if perceived as necessary.

    "Speed is therefore an addiction and tolerance cold turkey."
    Upon what is this conclusion based?
  • Feb 29 2012: Another sign of this cowardice in society is loads of paperwork and not enough actual service. By this I mean in the UK at least, people cover their backs because of fear of litigation. The situation has become like a legal minefield, feeding lawyers, rather than helping others in society, less well off than the rescuers are. The police, fire service, ambulance service and health service, were set up to protect the innocent, heal the sick, stop homes burning down, so that society could get on with its life in peace and as efficiently as possible. Nowadays all these practitioners are weighed down with paperwork, rather than going out into the world and doing the practical work they were hired for. The innocent stand in front of the law, while the guilty hide behind it, lying in order to gain an advantage over others, to the detriment of society as a whole. By this I mean that they try to manipulate the facts as well as the minds of others, through twisting the truth, threats and actual violence. It's created a situation where the innocent, trying to protect themselves end up in prison for assault or are murdered and the guilty get light sentences, ending up in prison and being treated better than those who served the community well and are now retired.
  • Feb 28 2012: Robert Kennedy said 'Few men are willing to brave the disapproval of their fellows, the censure of their colleagues, the wrath of their society. Moral courage is a rarer commodity than bravery in battle.' This is because it is harder to stand alone against the crowd as a whistle blower than go with the flow of consensus reality (prejudice is a fashion statement).
    To charge at a pill box with a grenade and a machine gun or conversely to fight in the trenches, despite the inhuman conditions is always easier because your can blend into the background, rather than stand out as a volunteer ('We were only following orders' versus 'I'm not putting up with this any longer!'). The corrupt never stand out or want to stand out (be noticed / 'I am Spartacus!').
  • Feb 24 2012: "I will face my fear.
    I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
    And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
    Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
    Only I will remain." (Frank Herbert’s, ‘Dune”)

    This is the point I was making about addiction and avoidance. If we face our fears, they pass over us like an illusion but if we fight them and run away, they will always appear real and unknown terror's.

    Rhona you're right. The problem is as Ian Leslie points out in his book 'Born Liars,' cynics distrust life so never learn from it and convince everyone else that life cannot be trusted because they know they cannot. He also points out that such people, rather than the open and honest, are more likely to be hoodwinked by equal shysters. People preaching a vengeful God, don't really know God very well do they? The overbearing are suppressive - be it by word or action. Honest people don't try to stop everything and anything but are more permissive, letting evolution take its course - whether its the individual or societal. Plants grow through being left alone - stamp all over them and you damage / kill them ('Consider the lilies of the field' Christ).
  • Feb 23 2012: Glad you raised this important issue. Look at society's well known for corruption. They usually have lots and lots of negativity in every area of the society. I wonder if there is any relationship to the prevalence of overbearing religious leaders and corruption and human misery. I wonder how we can demonstrate the value of honesty in life. It seems to me the shortest route to a healthy, prosperous, happy society is for everyone to acknowledge and express truth all the time. Let's convince humanity to give truth a chance. We can do it. We have lots of power right now.
    • Feb 24 2012: If you don't mind, could you please explain what this topic is about and what you are discussing with Tony in a more strict objective fashion? I honestly have no clue what to make out of all the words in here.
      • Feb 24 2012: Daniel, Many relatively less economically advanced nations are notorious for corruption. I decline to name specific countries, but you may know of some. Those countries that demand bribes, for example of companies wanting to do business there or of citizens who want things, e.g., zoning, official papers required to do things, tend to have low per capita incomes. Countries with large populations that are uneducated sometimes have strong religious insitutions. I decline to name the religions. You may know some. There is enormous hypocrisy among the religious and political leaders in these relatively underdeveloped countries. The USA used to have a huge program of helping these countries develop until they discovered that most of the money was being sent to the Swiss bank accounts of the politicians who got their hands on the money that was intended to build infrastructure and help the general population. Corruption holds people down.
  • Feb 23 2012: My definition of addiction is quite simple - it's what you want more and more of (hunger for/ empty of) as opposed to going cold turkey on because you want less and less of something (sickened by it / had enough of): Think of a car. If it is empty, it needs filling to the brim. If it's full, then trying to force more fuel into it, only leads to it vomiting back the surfeit. Simple logic, not complicated attempts to drag in all kinds of other arguments (historical) to create something that pleases everyone. Back to basics in other words.
  • Feb 23 2012: I don't exclude me from being lazy, cowardly and ignorant at times, over various subjects. The only thing we ever fight is our own ignorance and that means me too. I've had anger management problems for years - not in the form of attacking others physically but in temper tantrums that have scared the life out of my wife and various dogs we've had. It also led to twenty odd years of migraine, with me being in bed, with a blinding headache and throwing up on a regular basis. As someone pointed out to me, it's not just speed that is addictive but anger (Anger is like a car crash that messes up your body - speed isn't as bad for you, as long as you are free from accidents i.e. crashing into other people or your own consciousness as I did).
  • Feb 23 2012: Yes. I am not saying that any of us is free from addiction of one sort or another - life is addictive, death is cold turkey (withdrawal). Alcoholics Anonymous have got it right - once an addict always an addict (the danger of sliding back into old habits is hard to avoid). Isn't speed addictive (exciting) and doing nothing, boring because you are only left with your thoughts and analysing what is going on in your life? Old people (like me) are on their way out - the young on their way in. As a book I'm reading at the moment says 'We don't see others in the world, we only see ourselves reflected back at us. In other words we have no room to judge others because we are just as guilty of stupidity as they are. Fear hides the truth (lies) - courage displays it.

    As an example of what I mean about corruption and avoidance, let me mention the problems we had with our new house and a leaking tap. The young plumber kept coming up with plausible sounding lies about why it was that way and why it couldn't be fixed. In the end we went above his head and the whole sink was replaced. Another example was a leak into the garage which another plumber told us couldn't be from the sink in the kitchen. In the end it was my wife that noticed a strange sound and stuck her head under the actual sink, to discover a part was missing and water was running down the outside of the pipe into the garage. Listening is the problem - the answer is to look, in order to find out what the actual truth is. "Words, words, words..." to quote King Lear by Shakespeare.

    Another case in point but with worse repercussions is the case of Jonjo Bennet case. I saw a documentary about the murder of this young pageant queen. The local police force put it down to the father and didn't investigate further. The family called in a famous detective, who found evidence all over the police that indicated the possibility it wasn't the father but a well known criminal: Laziness, cowardice, ignorance.
  • Feb 23 2012: Can't disagree with that. Part of corruption is divide and conquer as well as lying through your teeth to convince people they are wrong not to believe your lies.
  • thumb
    Feb 22 2012: It seems to me that Tony only talks about one kind of corruption. There is corruption everywhere - trust me. And the lowest in the hierarchy gets the lash.
  • Feb 22 2012: I define best people as those that want to contribute to society as thorough professionals, who love what they are doing and are fascinated by its every detail. By lazy and cowardly I mean those who are reluctant to give their all to the world and their community. It is these who bully others into silence and conformity (Try to shut up the whistle blowers). The lazy, ignorant and cowardly are corrupt in that in the last named, they are reluctant to commit themselves as the ignorant won't open up their minds or the lazy move their bodies. They want something for nothing. By the way there is a lot of emotional baggage around these words, put there by these people as attempts to force others into action (never themselves). Free will belongs to adults who are responsible for their own actions and never blame others for their failures

    Speed is avoidance. Stopping and accepting things as they are is cold turkey. Gary Gilmore for instance accepted that his hot headed action led to someone's death and he regretted, accepting the death sentence for it, even demanding it. Those avoiding guilt will always blame others and try to escape responsibility - that is run away, rather than stop and face the consequences of their actions.

    Your definition of addiction may just include drugs but mine is based upon behaviour as well.

    As for law enforcement - self-defence is one thing but when innocent people are hung for crimes they didn't commit because of lazy, cowardly and ignorant officials wanting to look good rather than be right, get their way is a crime in itself. Stretch your mind - think about these things as I have and maybe you'll come to different conclusions to the ones you've accepted for now. Take nobody's word for anything, including me. Keep up the arguments!
    • Feb 22 2012: Let me see if I understand...

      The lazy, ignorant and cowardly are hot headed, forceful and will avoid consequences. And are also corrupt. Doing this is speed(?), an addiction.

      The best, fascinated, motivated, protestors and whistle-blowers are patient and willingly accept consequences of their actions. Doing this is cold turkey.