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Sunny Qureshi

CEO, IQ Training & Consultancy

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Can we prove Aristotle’s “Prime Mover”:Everything that happens is caused by something else?Then what caused the first cause?

POINTS TO PONDER

The cause of the universe might be eternal, thus eliminating the need for a cause. As people have accepted the Big Bang Theory, so this objection has fallen out of favor.

It is worth pointing out that time is an aspect of the universe,without the universe, there is no time. It has existed at every point in time and that at no point in time has there been no universe.

1.Everything that exists or begins to exist has a cause?
2. Universe began to exist therefore it has a cause "the first cause" or was the matter already present that caused it?
4. If it was the first cause then what caused the first cause?

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Closing Statement from Sunny Qureshi

The Debate was a mixture of philosophical and scientific arguments presented by members.

The question still remains unanswered as both schools of thought were inconclusive on the God or no God debate.

The problem is of the fact that both atheists and theists are both opposed to each others "belief". Even in science, hypothesisation which is a kind of belief that has not been proved exists.

This debate and other debates will remain inconclusive unless and until a Collaborative stance is not adopted by the two.

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    Feb 22 2012: Before answering you I just would like to say that this is a great talk you brought up and is a question that is been "bothering" me for a long time. Sometimes I asked if no one ever tought of that.

    To me it's a very trouble question. I mean, let's face the Big Bang Theory. Where did it come the heat and the material that originated the explosion. We know that material and energy doesn't disappears, it transforms, renovates (Law of Conservation of Matter and the Law of Conservation of Energy).
    If we face the The Circular cycle it stills doesn't answer our question. The Universe didn't started with matter and energy already created.

    I can't even answer my self and I doubt that anyone can. It's very hard to even to talk about it and explain how we think about that.

    I now leave another question;

    Having such a hard question, do we need do know the answer to this problem like many others questions, instead fixing and working for other problems that are real and possible to solve in our own world?
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      Feb 22 2012: Thank you Joao Pinto for your comments in the Debate, I believe we all have a purpose in life, for some it would be fixing problems of the present, and for some understanding life's purpose. And yes this is an unending analogy but understanding the cause can help us learn our purpose of life. I wonder may be this life is just a "Trial" in which at least i do not want to end up on the wrong side.
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        Feb 23 2012: I agree with you about our purposes in life, but I figured it out that we give our own purpose to our lives, we give sense to them. We choose our ways and decide what we want to do and how we give our contribution to mankind.

        And the "trial" in this world you mentioned, that´s quite a problem, I ask myself the same thing.
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      Feb 23 2012: "The Universe didn't started with matter and energy already created."

      And you know this how? What in the experience of your life has led you to believe this? I just want to know how you understand this.
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        Feb 23 2012: I´m just saying that everything has a cause. If we face the first cause, the starting point, what was the cause of that?

        Ex.: It was A that created the universe, and it was B that created A, and it was C that created B, etc, etc.

        Every cause has is own cause. How is it possible that the first cause has been originated with no cause?
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          Feb 23 2012: Thank you Sr. Pinto! This is what I have been saying too. First cause makes no logical sense. The problem is not in the answer, it is that the question is incorrect.

          Whenever you have a cause, you always have an antecedent cause.

          So for instance, the big bang theory. If all matter was glumped together in some gigantic mass that blew apart and became the universe, how did matter get that way? Maybe matter blows apart and re-aggregates in some big bang cycle. Maybe matter just keeps flying into infinity until it runs into some more matter from some other big bang to aggregate once again. Even in the big bang theory, there would have to be an antecedent cause.

          As I said in a previous post for those that believe that God is first cause. As if by magic, it must be God.

          Both explanations (God and big bang) are very similar to a child's response when they do not completely understand yet. Both are part fantasy.
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          Feb 23 2012: No it is written in every bible worldwide in the book of genesis.

          Yes it is a faith position because it gives a singular cause where is all ancient peoples creation stories are built around multiple deities involved,including my own races stories.

          One cause and only one.
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          Feb 23 2012: @ Mr. Brown. So? Those books were written by people with the wrong question too. Just because something got printed doesn't make it true. Just look at tabloid rags.

          Unless, of course, you assign belief to those books and then we are back to the fantasy part.

          From a previous post of mine:
          Jan 14 2012:
          Creation stories have been around since the dawn of man. Because no one was around when the world was created, we can reasonably be sure no one really knows how it all started. Because no one really knows how it all started, humans developed creation stories. These creation stories became a way to explain to outsiders what the values, morals and beliefs were of the people that created the stories. When two groups of people came together in the past, the exchange of creation stories was part of the diplomatic exchange as different peoples got to know one another.
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        Feb 26 2012: Dear linda we understand your "cause and effect theory" being a " Circular theory" meaning that the cause and effect occur on that which has always existed so there is no need for the "first cause theory". This would include time. But there is usually a time delay between cause and effect,. Circular time is such a large circle it only appears linear from our viewpoint. I hope this clarifies people "who believe that God is first cause. As if by magic, it must be God." as per you.

        By the way how can you say/speculate or know the "creation of stories by people" with regards to religious books? Whats faith then? or even Blind faith for that instance?
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          Feb 26 2012: "Whats faith then?" I have been trying to figure that out for a long time. If you find out let me know. I am continually amazed at what people believe. Perhaps it helps them make sense of the world.

          For instance, the idea of circular nature. That is a very ancient understanding of the world and frankly, for me, the only one that makes sense. But for some people, it makes sense that God created the earth in seven days and they believe it.

          I guess faith gives us structure to chaos, the Illusion of control.

          I would not say that I believe in circular nature. It is just a theory and one that makes sense. I am always looking for other theories and enjoy the exploration. Understand also that in the past, creation stories were just stories. Nobody actually believed in any of them. That is a recent phenomena.
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          Feb 28 2012: @ linda “Who wrote the Bible” is a question that can be definitively answered by examining the biblical texts in light of the external evidences that supports its claims. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that “All scripture is inspired by God….” In 2 Peter 1:20-21, Peter reminds the reader to “know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, … but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” The Bible itself tells us that it is God who is the author of His book.

          God does not leave us with just claims of His divine handiwork in the Bible, but also supports it with compelling evidence. The design of the Bible itself is a miracle. Written over more than 1,500 years by vastly different writers, yet every book in the Bible is consistent in its message. These 66 books talk about history, prophecy, poetry, and theology. Despite their complexity, differences in writing styles and vast time periods, the books of the Bible agree miraculously well in theme, facts and cross-referencing. No human beings could have planned such an intricate combination of books over a 1,500-year time span. Bible manuscripts (remember, there were no printing presses until 1455) have survived despite weather, persecution and time.
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          Feb 28 2012: Interesting Franciz. The book itself says that it comes from God. So I can write some stuff down and say that it was inspired holy work coming from God and you would call the exact SAME process blasphemy.

          Oh I agree completely the book is incredibly old. And people were able to copy very accurately because they took their work seriously. A scribe was a pretty important guy to be and had a work ethic.

          And the whole no human can plan a 66 chapter book thing. Actually there were entire counsels that planned the book. The council at Jerusalem. The council at Nicea. Couple more that I forgot. They went through it with a fine tooth comb. 'This we keep, this we get rid of.' In fact, I think there may be some records somewhere documenting the process. I don't follow that closely.

          But Egyptian hieroglyphics were too. So were Mayan. And some of them claim to be from some god too. And they were pretty consistent. I am sorry but your compelling evidence is not so compelling.

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