TED Conversations

Ariel Habshush
New York, NY
United States

Electrical Engineering student, The Cooper Union For The Advancement of Science and Art

This conversation is closed. Start a new conversation
or join one »

Our bodies are amazing nano/micro electrical factories!

Did you know that our cells have electric and mechanical systems like the ones you can find inside your electronic devices? For example, the electrical properties of nerve cells (neurons) can be modeled using the same electrical circuit theories! In a way, our bodies are complex biological machines! Let's discuss this in details!

+10

Closing Statement from Ariel Habshush

Throughout this session many examples have been given that depict how our bodies contain electrical and mechanical systems. A specific electrical system example was how the cell membrane can be compared to a BJT and PN junction semiconductor devices (see Andrew and Simon's comments). As an electrical engineering student I find it fascinating that our cells can be compared to circuit components. With regards to mechanical systems, Steven said that the human leg can be modeled as a spring governed by the equation F=-Kx. It amazing how such complex creatures as ourselves can be studied using equations governing physics!

Sort By:

sanghun lee
- 0
Feb 8 2012: Sometimes I thought we can make a robot on the theories. Therefore, GOD is great.
hyunguk CHOI
- 0
Feb 7 2012: Perhaps , we are just machine in matrix world.

The more I learned about buddhism , The more confidence I feel that we are just simulation.

Our biological machine keep lies to us , and we will not able to figure out the truth of truth unless we are free from ourselves.

Who know who we really are?
Tommy Bong
- 0
Feb 7 2012: Ok dear Mr. Ariel, we can discuss that. But what is the aim of the discussion?
To create a new idea, project or just to discuss for the sake of discussing?
Soumya Surya Adhikari
- 0
Feb 7 2012: the idea can be quite helpful in makin robots that can have brain circuitry woth circuits similar to that in case of neurons as explained.then we could be able to create bots that could not only walk like that of humans but also can think,feel and do all the work that a human brain makes a human do!
- Samantha Massengill 50+
  - 0
  Feb 7 2012: Hi Soumya, I agree that it is extremely useful to take inspiration from nature when designing robots. But I have to disagree with you when you say that these bots can do *all* of the work that a human brain can do. Learning algorithms made it possible for Watson to win Jeopardy but I don't think that any artificial system could ever have emotions that humans do. Seeking inspiration from biological systems is important but the capabilities of a bot definitely have an upper bound.
  - Soumya Surya Adhikari
    
    0
    Feb 8 2012: i agree samantha.but now the world is moving at such a pace dat that programming bots for any kind is not a impossible thing anymore. if bots are able to generate ideas,whu knows the next generation bots will be programmed to have human emotions too.
- hyunguk CHOI
  - 0
  Feb 8 2012: Being a robot could be sad thing , but it is reality
Andrew Kiang 50+
- 0
Feb 7 2012: I came across a report about bones and bioelectricity. Following a piezoelectric model, bones can be electrically polarized under mechanical stress and when stimulated with electricity a converse effect, strain occurs. I do not fully understand how this happens, but there is definitely a link between electricity and bone cells that affect growth and repair. This has lead to tests such as for accelerated fracture healing which attempt to create a model of the bone out of its electrical properties.

Take a look:
http://184.168.234.226/Matrix-pdfs/clinical-studies/Current-BoneGrowth-LSU.pdf
Steven Nikolidakis 50+
- 0
Feb 7 2012: To picture our body as just an amalgamation of mechanical and electrical entities is surprisingly a viable approximation. Basic physics and circuit theories can be applied to our bodies to help us both model and understand them to a greater extent. For example, the whole human leg can be approximated as a spring in order to study running or hopping. The simple F=-kx spring approximation has proved useful in finding forces, stiffness properties, and other crucial information about leg biomechanics. This simple model can especially help in comparing forces in the knees of patients who have undergone ACL reconstructive surgery versus patients who have not.

An interesting article I have recently read discusses the possibility that mind alone could be used in order to train certain muscle groups. In this specific experiment, pinky abductor muscle strength was compared in a group of test subjects which was asked only to imagine training the muscle, versus a group which actually underwent muscle exercise. After a certain period, it was found that both groups provided similar results, hinting at the idea that signals from the brain alone might be enough in order to provide physical results. Although it might only be plausible to replicate these results in small muscle groups, this bolsters the idea that our body is an electrical and mechanical masterpiece working in perfect unity.
Harnsowl Ko 50+
- 0
Feb 7 2012: The body itself has so many different mechanical and electrical systems that are ever present in the real world. The system of tendons and ligaments in the knee resemble nothing more than a simple hinge. The heart is simply put, a pump. The shoulder is an ball and socket joint, which can be mimicked by, you guessed it, a ball and socket. Our bodies may not be as mechanical as I've put it, but it has very clear, distinct attributes that make it so. It is amazing to think that something as complex as our bodies can be broken down into simple elements that can be emulated in the future, leading to more viable prosthetics and better quality of life for those with degrading body elements.
Josh Mayourian 50+
- 0
Feb 7 2012: It's amazing how the electric systems in our bodies are understood at the level where measurements of electrical output can be made in certain regions of the body, and as a result we can assess the body's functioning level. For example, it's incredible how analyzing the ECG/EKG, which measures electrical output of the heart, gives us so much. We can see how drugs affect the heart beat, and we can make sure one's pulse is healthy. Electrical output can also be seen in the brain using an EEG. This detection of electrical activity is useful for detecting diseases. We are able to understand the electrical activity so great that we can make diagnosis based on analyzing the electrical output. Even more interesting is that electrical systems are evident not only in humans. For example, insects with antennas use the EAG. From these measurements, we can see how the insect's antennas are stimulated to certain odors. This helps us analyze certain pheromones effects.
- hyunguk CHOI
  - 0
  Feb 8 2012: We never know who we really are, " Word can not explain anything,"
  
  No matter how much we know ,,,,,, we would not be able to understand the meanig relies on Life
  
  Life is beatiful and complex , isn't it?
Maria Georgescu 50+
- 0
Feb 7 2012: It is incredible to think that our movements, for example, of our arms, share at least 80% of the same brain firing patterns. To put it into even more mind-boggling terms, the "initiation sequences" fired by our brains in controlling our arm movements are 80% alike to those of a chimpanzee. In fact, these signals can be and were encoded into electrical signals that a prosthetic for humans can translate into meaningful movement.

What could we do if we set about "decoding" all the main initiation sequences of our movements?
Yu-An Chen 50+
- 0
Feb 7 2012: There are so much to be discovered about our cells and the mechanics of their interactions. The membrane of a cell can be view as a p-n junction or a diode in circuits. I wonder is there anything in a living organ or system that can resemble a BJT or MOSFET ?
- Ariel Habshush 50+
  - 0
  Feb 7 2012: Hi Yu-An,
  Can you elaborate more on how the membrane of a cell can be viewed as a p-n junction?
- Andrew Leader 50+
  - +1
  Feb 7 2012: In a BJT (bipolar junction transistor), a three terminal electrical device, a small voltage at one terminal (the base) is used to control a large current across two separate terminals (the collector and emitter). The type of semiconductor junction between the base and emitter terminals is called a PN junction.
  
  Extending the analogy of the cell membrane as a PN junction, perhaps we can think of the post-synaptic dendritic spines of a neuron as reminiscent of BJTs. While BJTs use a signal (at the base) to control a large current flow (between the emitter and collector), neurons act similarly in that synaptic potentials and the release of neurotransmitters signals the post-synaptic cell, causing a change in membrane potential which propagates along the dendrite. It would be interesting to know if anyone has thought of a way--experimentally or theoretically--to perform functions traditionally performed with transistors with neurons or other material that can be biologically grown. BJT fabrication is expensive, and it has never reached the same Moor's Law rate of scaling as MOSFETS.
Joanna Cruz
- 0
Feb 6 2012: Our bodies are quite fantastic and amazing. They are so complex beyond our imagination. The electrical properties of the entire body must be taken into consideration when detecting and measuring electrical signals of the body, like for EMG and EEG. An important requirement when performing noninvasive EEG or EMG involving passive electrodes is skin prep. Dead skin and hair must be removed and the skin must cleaned abrasively before placing electrodes on the body because they act as artifacts or they are undesired impedances that can distort desire electrical signals.

I think more effort should be placed into biomimicry. We should closely observe natural bodies, phenomena, and habitats and try to emulate the efficient processes that occur or gather information to improve our current technology and methods.
Veronica Shalotenko 50+
- 0
Feb 5 2012: The fact that the cell resembles an electrical circuit (with the cell membrane acting as both a resistor and a capacitor) is certainly very interesting. What’s even more interesting is the complex relationship that has developed between cells and electronics within the scientific and engineering communities. Electronics are currently being used to improve cell culture techniques in laboratories specializing in stem cell research. Through the use of external electrical stimulation, tissue engineers have been able to grow more functional cardiac tissue in a laboratory setting, for example. While it is now common practice to apply electrical principles to cell culture, can we work in reverse and use our knowledge of cellular electricity to design better electronics? It is a well-known fact that the human body is, in some sense, the most advanced machine in existence. Perhaps the research that is currently being conducted in the field of bioelectricity will generate ideas for the design of more efficient and eco-friendly electronics.
Sophie Rand 50+
- +1
Feb 4 2012: the brain is clearly a really souped up version of any processor that we know of, and it is pretty amazing the parallels in processing and how they actually do things similarly, for example accessing memory. computers have levels of cache, with information in each of them based on some algorithm that determines priority. similar to how the brain will store memories with varying ease of accessibility-- meaning some things are easier to attend to, or can be attended to more quickly, if they are in some higher level of memory.

one thing it seems that machines cant do (at least that i know of!) that not only restore energy while they are asleep, but also actively work on stuff that the brain has 'consumed' during the day. human (good) sleep helps learning so much because the brain is somehow processing the stuff we've learned during the day and makes it more...learned...how does it do that?!
- Andrew Leader 50+
  - +1
  Feb 7 2012: It's interesting to read about various ways in which scientists are working towards making computers more 'brain-like.' This concept is part of what the burgeoning field of Neuromorphic Engineering is all about. At Stanford, they're working on designing hardware incorporates some of the same 'fuzzy logic' that our brains use by using smaller transistors which are less reliable, but operate faster and in parallel to produce reliable approximations of calculations. http://www.stanford.edu/group/brainsinsilicon/
  
  At Caltech, Carver Mead (who is credited with coining the term 'Moore's Law') pioneered the use of low-grade silicon instead of traditional high grade silicon for similar purposes. Mead, who is famous for his work in VLSI, also studied neuroscience with Richard Feynman.
  
  At Boston University's Neuromorphics Lab, they're working with HP on developing software that 'thinks' like animals do for use with autonomous robots, or 'animats'. They're also working on developing more efficient better memory for its implementation, made out of a new circuit element called the 'memristor' instead of using MOSFETS. http://nl.bu.edu/
  
  The concept of sleep also fascinates me. Of course, computers may do a range of things when we might think they're 'sleeping,' such as running diagnostics or participating in cluster computing. But can we really call this sleep the same kind of sleep that you or I experience? As far as I'm aware, I don't think we have a very clear understanding of animal sleep, and why we all do it. What is sleep's mechanical, electrical, or chemical purpose? Perhaps some day, we can figure out why we need it, and then see what we can do to incorporate aspects of sleep into our technology, not to mention the health implications of solving this mystery. I encourage you to read the Wikipedia page on sleep if you haven't. It's amazing how little we know!
  - Matthew Wieder 50+
    
    +1
    Feb 7 2012: On the mechanical front, I remember reading an article in the New York Times about researchers who came to the same conclusion as the neuro work mentioned above. The body is an extremely advanced and complex system. While the human brain may be the most advanced of all species, the cheetah has an advantage when it comes to its legs. This fact makes the cheetah a much better model when it comes to energy utilization in the design of prostheses for running applications then a human leg. Basically the researchers said, why not look to the most advance biological systems for any given application for inspiration in the creation of man made machines. This would include modeling the wings of airplanes after those of a bird and the design of a boat based on the shape of fish. As can be seen from the reaction of the Olympic community to the cheetah inspired prosthetic legs giving an unfair advantage to the wearer, I believe that bio-inspired mechanical systems are the way of the future as well as the correct choice of inspiration for mechanical design.
  - hyunguk CHOI
    
    0
    Feb 8 2012: Thw World has changed so dramatically , I can not belong to any of them.
No Way
- +1
Feb 4 2012: Very good points Ariel. I happen to have just found these 2 TED Talks about regeneration, which if you've not seen them are tangential to your points and quite fascinating and exciting:

Anthony Atala on growing new organs:
http://www.ted.com/talks/anthony_atala_growing_organs_engineering_tissue.html

Alan Russell on regenerating our bodies:
http://www.ted.com/talks/alan_russell_on_regenerating_our_bodies.html

Enjoy!
Steven
Francesco Bottai
- 0
Feb 3 2012: Till we would not learn to look at metabolic process and other basic meccanisms as bioelectrical process , relegating the bioelectricity's interest only to organs openly and clearly with an electrical activity we cannot understand how are important and basical the electrical phenomenas and bioelectronic for cells and tissues. For instance the regulatory acid/basic system of is a balance between elctronegative and posivitive charges . Inflammatory process( and chronic disease ) are tipically acid in nature and so low in electrons , the tissue are without the electron's potential ,necessary for living process, via the mythocondria whic are as the batteries of the cells, in all chronic disease more and more is recognised the role of the mithoocondria that changing their rate of activity swithing to a state without a oxygen ( anaerobic state ) lessens their rate production of ATP approxima 30 times. The availability of oxygen in solution is stricly depending from electrons. Thera are study that show how could be reversed a chronical process , giving electrons. Our bodies need electrons ( alcaline support ) for living , and more electrons for repairing tissue , growth and regrowth. If our body can'nt find easily electrons , disrupt the alcaline reserve of electrons in basic tissue. The easy flow of blood needs vitally of electrons. Not only our organs work as electronical device they need a flow of electrons , need to be grounded need to be calibrated at ground; so we are born to be in contact with the earth with his reserve of electrons to avoid cortocircuit for to much protons ( freeradical ). But more and more interest is how the web of interstitial matrix , and intracellular matrix ( BWW , the BodyWide Web) is linked in the process of trasmission of information and olografic conscience in this amazing 2BE 2BC BIOS ( bioelectrical, bioelectronical;biocybernetic, bioconscient; Biosystem ) with the work of the double function , wave and particule of electrons
S.N. Kuntjoro
- 0
Feb 3 2012: since the brain is communicating with all body cells, it is using electric current to pass on information data. neuro-computer science should concentrate more on separating the source codes and the software programs involved. It will be the key science in our future!
Amirpouya Ghaemiyan 50+
- +1
TED Translator

Feb 3 2012: Good subject !
I`m not a neurologist and do not know so much about it ,
but as much as I know about philosophy (which I`m more into it) you`re right.
The human`s actions and reactions have logical rules-
as much as we can predict human`s behavior.
but I think the most important part of this subject is discussing about ghost and its existing .........
ALPHAN VARDARLI
- +1
Feb 2 2012: Hello Ariel,
This is a subject I have been thinking about for the last two years. Modelling from nature is by far the best source, but the question is how far can we go. I found that modelling usually takes only parts of the natural system. The simple reason is that we have no model for a complete system for how nature works.
My project is called Episteme Spacecraft. The idea has many levels; it begins by basic correlation on biological basis and moves up to finding out about gravity of living organisms which in turn I believe to grant us the production of gravitational machines. The idea is that we could take the sound and electrical data of a living organism and correlate it with its DNA and form a database with as many species as possible and in turn when looking at a new organism(even an alien organism) we could program that database to produce a DNA from just the sound and electrical data. Elaborating further I want to give you the idea for a first test: take the electrical impulses and natural sounds and dna sequence of 1000 types of bacteria. When you test a different type for sound and electrical impulse, the correlation data of the 1000 types of bacteria would give you a DNA sequence.
The other possibility would be to include the data of the image of organisms.
I have a blog (no ads) and a fb page and I am looking for scientific criticism.
Thank you for opening this topic.
http://episteme-spacecraft.blogspot.com/
http://www.scribd.com/doc/52022119/How-to-Make-a-Spacecraft
http://tr-tr.facebook.com/pages/How-to-make-a-spacecraft-Uzay-gemisi-nas%C4%B1l-yap%C4%B1l%C4%B1r/110157509055877
With Kind Regards,
Alphan
Zach Padove
- +1
Feb 2 2012: I find it amazing how any organism is able to run efficiently, sometimes with no outside assistance. Specifically what intrigues me is how cells divide, and operate. It is interesting how stem cells can decide what type of cell they will become, as if they were blank CD's on a machine line, waiting for the programmer to imprint the chosen software on them. The only difference is, a burned CD cannot replicate itself, it needs another machine to duplicate it.

It is also interesting how these cells can work together to form such a complex system as the body, almost as if they communicate with each other on an individual level. How much do we really know about how these systems interact?
- Dionne Lutz
  - 0
  Feb 7 2012: Hey Zach,
  I'm excited to say we have only just scratched the surface of cell biology! Scientists have known for decades that electricity stimulates cells to divide (making IVF possible), but now we are exploring the effects of different amounts of currents or voltages have on the cells themselves. The hard part is studying the cells as tissues and their interactions with one another - there really is only so much one could do in the lab.
Nicolette Sinensky 50+
- +1
Feb 2 2012: Yes, these comparisons really show quite how amazing the human body is. For instance, cartilage has coefficient of friction of .001. Compare that to the coefficient of friction for teflon on teflon (.04), and its clear why cartilage damage is hard to repair with manmade materials. Not only does the human body model these electrical and mechanical systems, it does the job much better than anything we can come up with ourselves.
-Nicolette
- Simon Khuvis 50+
  - 0
  Feb 3 2012: Very interesting point -- is the figure you cite, 0.001, applicable to dry cartilage-on-cartilage kinetic friction, or is it specific to situations in which the bursae provide extra cushioning (not that the addition of that lifelong, living self-lubrication mechanism would make the system any less remarkable)?
- George Kong 30+
  - 0
  Feb 3 2012: > Not only does the human body model these electrical and mechanical systems, it does the job much better than anything we can come up with ourselves.
  
  Oh come on. Give us a break. We've only been at this for the last half century. Clearly evolution has had significantly longer to figure this stuff out then we have! :p
Sojung Yun
- +1
Feb 2 2012: Yes human body is really amazing! It works without our concerning it all the time so perfectly. In fact no machine in the world can be as good as human mechanism since it has to be fueled in any way. Well humans need to be fueled by food too but we never fuel our organs or legs individually. Nature is beautiful;
Simon Khuvis 50+
- +1
Feb 2 2012: A good question -- the use of circuit theory to analyze biological systems is well established: the Nernst equilibrium across muscle and nerve membranes is reminiscent of a p-n junction in semiconductors, used to introduce a bias voltage into such common devices as diodes (an equilibrium is reached between the opposing electromotive and diffusive forces on charged particles, ions in the former case, electrons and "holes" in the latter).

Eons of evolutionary pressure have resulted in some creative engineering on nature's part. One of my favorite biomechanical adaptations is the superior oblique muscle in the human eye. This muscle's tendon actually passes through a pulley, allowing it to exert a force at a right angle to its orientation, dispite muscles' inherent limitation of only being able to contract longitudinally.
- Graham Morris
  - 0
  Feb 2 2012: This seems like a total contradiction... a marvellous one though... even though some "scientists" need millions or eons of evilution... to make something like this happen, mathematicians have long proved that for any proteins or organisms to have evolved with this degree of complexity is completely improbable and mathematically impossible no matter how many eons of time you give evilution.
  Lets be realistic and logical, This is incredible "creative engineering" which thankfully points to a precise, wise, and loving ENGINEER! May He bless you Simon!
  - Simon Khuvis 50+
    
    0
    Feb 3 2012: Thank you for your kind comment, Graham. I think you may be surprised to find that we don't disagree on nearly as much as you think, although this wouldn't be the venue at which to discuss it. And may He bless you, too!
Ariel Habshush 50+
- +2
Feb 2 2012: Check this article out! It's about the first biological laser.

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110612/full/news.2011.365.html
- Howard Yee 50+
  - 0
  Feb 4 2012: Very cool. Many Science fiction writers believe that ultimately, androids would be made with biological material, not synthetic. This, along with gene splicing and such seems like it's the first steps to creating man-made/man-designed large scale biological machines. Perhaps the bio-laser can be the ideal interface between a living being and electronics.
Ahmet Yükseltürk 500+
- +2
Host TED Attendee TED Translator TEDx Organizer Associate Language Coordinator

Feb 1 2012: Hi Ariel,

Interesting question.

Here is an introductory article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomechanics

I found some research groups:

- Oscillations in human body: http://www.physics.lancs.ac.uk/research/nbmphysics/research.htm

- http://www2.surrey.ac.uk/postgraduate/taught/biomedeng/

Let's see what others will say.
- Andre Tessmann
  - 0
  Feb 2 2012: I find really interesting this area of research! I would love the see the relation between the oscillations in the different organs and how this is related to many different states like stress, anxiety, etc. And how a permanent dissonance between all the parts could start other illness. I believe that many of problems we face today are because of lack of harmony, not only inside ourselves (body+mind), but within our society as a whole.
  - Ariel Habshush 50+
    
    +1
    Feb 3 2012: Hi Andre,
    Here's an example of the relation between the oscillation of an organ and different emotional states:
    The heart oscillates (beats) at different frequencies. Heart Rate Variability (HRV) is a measurement of the time intervals between heart beats. Studies have shown that daily worry and anxiety are related to low HRV (high frequency beating of the heart).

Showing all 44 comments

Sign In

To join or start a conversation, you'll need to sign in. Not a member? Register Now (it's free and fast).

Live Conversations

Live Conversations are hosted by TED speakers and TED Fellows. Ask your questions and participate in the discussions on the following dates and times: