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Grace Sabarus

Coach - Life, Creativity, GraceConscious Consulting

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What if there's no consequences associated with choosing and making decision?

There is a research to a tribal society in remote island in Scotland. They don't have rules, procedures, steps, ethics not even law. But the community live in peace and harmony? What's the secret? When there's no consequences, then there's no fear of making mistakes. When there's no fear of making mistakes then everyone doesn't feel obliged to carefully choose. When people don't have to feel the pressure of being measured, they are free mentally and psychologically, the two human instrument for making choices.

They don't compete, not in race, not in comparison, not in self-actualization. They are not afraid of consequences of being punished, condemned, blamed, measured, audited, evaluated, reviewed, assessed or sentenced. And when they are free in this two human instruments, they only make good choices! They choose things that will benefit most. Not only will benefit most for self or for anyone. They observe only what is right, best and benefiting for nobody will say it's not or demand better choices.

Lawlessness.

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      Feb 1 2012: Thanks Varlan. You're right. Reaction is our current mechanism to guard our heart to respond well. For we're born with conscious for consequences. But still wondering, what if we don't have the measuring tape for consequences? How our free-will looks like?
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          Feb 3 2012: Yes, that's it Adriaan! You get the point! I am so thrilled knowing that it is possible to make choices and decisions based on love we received earlier in life from our parents, not based on our fear for their consequences.

          It's really relieving to know that no matter what, our parents will accept us unconditionally, and therefore, we develop self-discipline not for avoiding consequences, but for responding to our parents' love when they taught us what is good. As a bonus, consequences don't have a chance to trap us for we always based our behavior in the good things we know from our parents.

          I would love deepening this research. One of my client is my husband, who never touch drugs while making close friends and spending the night with drug-addict friends during his adolescent years. The secret is this: his mother was so in love with him and always accepted him no matter how naughty he was as a child. He was so aware of her love for him that he chose to respond to his mother's love by not having drugs. Not that he was afraid of loosing his mother's love as a consequence, but because in his sub-conscious mind, he knows his mother would never punish him. Then he chose only good things to please her, not to prevent her from being hurt.

          Isn't it marvelous what we can find in unconditional relationship with no consequences?
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          Feb 3 2012: I totally agree Grace,
          Choices and decisions based on love are important, more beneficial, and it is really important to share unconditional love, which we can learn from children, basing behaviors on the good things we learn and share.
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          Feb 13 2012: WOW Varlan....17 children in your family!!! I'm from a very small family....only 8:>) My brothers and sisters were often caregivers in my family as well, because my father was often on a rampage.

          I relate to what you say about learning how NOT to be. I learned how NOT to be from my father, and learned the prefered way of "being" from my mother. While my father was always a stressed, nervous, frightened angry person, my mother was consistantly calm peaceful and unconditionally loving. I learned more by demonstration, than by anything else. My father ruled with fear, and my mother ruled with love. Of course we did what he wanted because we didn't want to get hurt. We did what our mother wanted because she was loving. I don't even remember her raising her voice once during my whole childhood, nor did she preach, lecture or threaten in any way. We knew there were consequenses with each parent. Our father went into a blaming, abusive, threatening rage. Our mother would calmly say something like...."I am disappointed". Her gentle "disappointment" was much more of a life lesson than the threats from my father.

          I agree heartily Varlan, that the company we keep makes a big difference, and as adults, we have a chance to influence children in a positive way. Many times, children will figure out what the consequenses are if we give them the guidence to do so. Hammering religious doctrine into their heads is not going to empower them to make good, informed decisions.

          Thanks for your insightful comments Varlan:>)
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          Feb 3 2012: Adriaan,
          Children ARE unconditionally loving...they will love a parent no matter how they are treated by that parent. That is a fact which is proven time and time again, and recognized by leading psychologists. It is far more beneficial to encourage a child to develope rather than "shaping" his/her mind. That is also a proven fact. "The Super Nanny" TV show is a reality tv show I believe? It may not be the best example of how to "raise" a child.

          You say..."God is a god of unconditional love". Doesn't it say somewhere in that bible of yours that we are all made in the image and likeness of God? Why do you think children would be excluded from that?

          Adriaan,... "do it from obedience - or else", the next stage is 'obey me because you love me', and finally 'obey me because you love and understand me'.
          are not "normal stages in human motivational development"...those are religious beliefs, and a way to control people.
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          Feb 12 2012: Dear Adriaan,
          I am THRILLED that in just a few days, you have changed your perception and/or method regarding the way in which a child's "mind has to be shaped and developed"

          Above, you write..."The normal stages in human motivational development are from "do it from obedience - or else", the next stage is 'obey me because you love me', and finally 'obey me because you love and understand me'.

          I just read with joy, a comment you posted yesterday Adriaan...
          "A reply on Conversation: can science be linked with god?
          1 day ago: Hi Joanne, My whole point..................
          Sayings like 'believe as I do or else! are not based on love".

          Just like your statement above Adriaan..."do it from obedience - or else", is not based on love.

          This is SO true Adriaan...
          Those kinds of sayings and beliefs are not based on love...very insightful Adriaan:>)
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          Feb 3 2012: Adriaan,
          I do not "hate religions", and I have been very clear about what I think of religions. So, you are again trying to manipulate my words, which is not acceptable.

          Children ARE good people to begin with. It is indoctrination with beliefs like you have expressed above that children become less then confident in themselves. I agree, "we have the tools and free will to become good people".

          Children do NOT become better people when they are told to "do it from obedience - or else", or "obey me because you love me", or "obey me because you love and understand me". Children become empowered when we encourage and support them in their exploration of the life experience.

          Children already KNOW how to share Adriaan. Children KNOW unconditional love.

          I DO unconditionally love you as a fellow evolving human being Adriaan, and I do not agree with many of your teachings, preachings, and attempt to promote your religion......ESPECIALLY, when children can be adversly impacted with what you are trying to preach.
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          Feb 4 2012: I totally agree with your motto Adriaan, and I have told you many times that I respect you and your belief, as long as it does not adversly impact others. So, for you to say.... "Colleen I know, because you said so (so I am not putting words in your mouth) you hate religions...", either you are not listening, not comprehending, or intentionally trying to manipulate what I write. You are the only one who knows that.

          The teachings that you advocate for children DO adversly impact them, their growth and their ability to make good choices for themselves Adriaan, and this has been proven over and over again.

          For the past several years, there have been numerous trials in this area regarding the sexual molestation of young people by catholic priests, and I've heard and/or read much of the testimony. Most of the children were told the same things you advocate above..."obey me because you love me...obey me because I am the representative of god...obey me, or else". You say, Adriaan, that this is "normal stages in human motivational development". That is not at all true. These children who were molested were taught to obey, respect, love that priest and do whatever he wanted them to do. Most of the children KNEW it was wrong, but they were following the teachings of their priest and parents. They wearn't sure if it was ok for them to refuse, even thought they knew it was wrong.

          When we teach children to obey no matter what, or obey or else, or do it because you love me, they lose the ability to make good choices for themselves. Your motto is great Adriaan..."If whatever you believe makes you a better person, believe it". Yes, I'm all for that. I am also, all for empowering children, so in that respect, we need to empower them to be able to make choices for themselves. Maybe telling children to obey...just because you say so, makes you feel like a "better person", but it disempowers the children.
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    Jan 31 2012: Hi Grace!

    First I would love to read about this tribal society you mention, sounds interesting.

    Second, sounds like these group of people is a very small community (in number of members) so anarchy may be easier to implement and maintain than law.

    Regards!

    JB
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      Feb 2 2012: Hey Julian. Your perspective is awesome. Thanks! Our community top leader has the information about this tribal. Let me check with him when I see him again someday. We are currently implementing a newly found community system by our top community leaders. It's "one way love" concept. It means, we are offering love to anyone in the community without expecting reward and without judging mistakes. All we are required to practice forgiveness when someone hurts the other, practice encouragement when they fail showing good behavior or thinking and practice understanding to choose bad choices. We don't apply any consequences, no judgment and nobody has made mistakes for there's no measurement for mistakes.

      We have been applying this for 6 month now. It was very very had in the first place. Now it's about to shape. This is the place I want to be all the time. The "one way love" have flourished into unconditional acceptance. The unconditional acceptance makes bad people turn to be much better person. When nobody judge, bad people turns to have nothing to defend. So, they choose to do good as example set by others.

      Our community concept of "one way love" has been adopted by communities in Brazil and we would love to travel and live for a year or two wherever the world want us to bring this concept into.

      Thanks again Brother Julian. I admire your perspective of goodwill. I really do!
      Grace
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    Feb 23 2012: They look, feel, and do things with Grace... when there is Grace... it melts away The so called LAW... thank you for sharing your thoughts... this clip is awesome.. I am knew wikth TED... I learned about it via my Real Estate Long time friend, mentor, coach... have the best day of your life.. I am very excited to learn an d share ...
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    Feb 9 2012: Good question Grace,

    I believe there is no right or wrong thing, unless we label it so. Consequences in my view are simply labels we put on reactions that we get for actions. I also feel "consequences" is mostly used with a negative connotation, to refer to the repercussions of our actions. are there good consequences ?
    Some old societies in my view had a much more superior way of life than we do at the moment. A strong sense of oneness, responsibility and community with each other, oneness with the environment, flora and fauna and nature in general.
    Just like you put it > They don't compete, not in race, not in comparison, not in self-actualization.
    lets remember, we are all one !
  • Feb 9 2012: Though I do not know what community Grace is referring to nor have I came across such examples, I believe the reason for their peaceful cohabitation may be attributed to enlightened self-interest. This would allow them to help others, knowing the favor will be returned. Although this concept of helping others with the sole motivation of receiving help in return is a flawed ideal, the spirit of reciprocity can actually lead to the formation of such a society. This flawed ideal may then be present only in the first generation which may evolve into a trait, a culture where people do not do it because of enlightened self-interest but because it is a way of life.

    Another factor that may allow such a society to flourish may be that the society is a small society and impact of actions and ultimately consequences will resonate back quickly. Therefore, people avoid "negative karma" by helping one another which leads back to the first point on enlightened self-interest.

    When Grace says that there is no competition, no comparison etc, it gives me an inkling that all of them are similar with perfect equality, which bears striking resemblance to extreme communism. And we all know such extreme measures lead to a very backward situation as exemplified by North Korea. The luxury of having abundance of resources or having a fair distribution of all resources where resources are given a face value and divided equally may be present in such a society. However, this is only possible in a small society. When it is amplified, on a larger scale, miscommunication is inevitable. On a larger scale, where it is possible to disappear in the numbers, people will also be tempted to possess a greater share of the pie and thus it does not seem to be a possible system to be adopted.
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    Feb 3 2012: Freedom from consequence and freedom from outcomes are two different things.

    As Varlan pointed out, the (cultural) use of "consequence" implies a negative.
  • Feb 2 2012: But there are. We all have infinite choice all day long. If we are assertive in choosing positive, we will observe and experience positive consequences. May as well remain within the positive realm as much as we can.
  • Feb 1 2012: Hi Grace,

    You mean consequences from other people, right? Nature will impose it's own consequences and I'd think that they apply especially to a primitive tribe. If you don't plant, you don't eat.

    Best wishes,
    Doug Bell
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      Feb 1 2012: Hi Mohammad:

      So you would rob people if you knew you where not going to go to jail?

      i'll make sure not to leave stuff unattended arrownd you if we meet.

      Regards!

      JB

      PS would you kill, rape, etc if you knew you didn't have to "pay" for it?
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          Feb 1 2012: Hi Mohammad:

          I understand you where taught that without external coercion people will kill each other, etc.

          I view the world in the opposite way, so many things could go wrong and so many abuses could happen, but do not occur due to peoples good will (regardless of the external threats). I choose to trust people and offer my good will.

          I guess people view the world as they view themselves and as the world has treated them. We are all limited in that respect.


          Regards!

          JB


          PS 1 if you want me to “understand” something, you need proof.
          PS 2 I’m rather curious on how my comment can be described as envious.
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          Feb 1 2012: HI Mohammad:

          I think I live in the real world, have a job, raise a family, pay my bills, live in an apartment, face traffic, interact with people every day…
          I have lived in 4 different countries so far, always in very large cities, traveled to a lot of other countries…
          Maybe you have a better perspective on “practical reality” than I do, or maybe it’s just different and a reflection of the environment you interact with. Can that be possible?

          If we were stranded on a desert island, would you seek to collaborate or kill the others and keep all the stuff? I think collaboration and good will are natural (with reasonable caution) and more usefull.

          On the PS 1, that makes no sense, and is Wikipedia.ORG
          Regarding PS 2, Yes, I’m from Argentina, but people and nationalities are different, do you think it’s correct to judge people by their nationality? Is it useful in any way?
          On my comment about robbery, you said that: “This means that if i rob somebody i wont have to go to jail there....hmmm...lets go to scotland Ahoy!!” did I miss interpret?

          Regards!

          JB