- Manuj Sharma
- Mumbai
- India
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Why do we chase happiness?
If each emotion we experience is for a reason then why do we try to not to experience some of them as they are? Why there is a race for happiness out of the entire range of emotions? Is it a new phenomena or has the happiness always been sought the most? Is it a human need ?
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Showing single comment thread. View the full conversation.
Rhona Pavis 50+
I think it is achievable. Using truth in communication - full-time - is one way to achieve it, I think. Using positive words and committing positive acts is another way. We have the power to cause happiness in others and in ourselves. We can use those powers and freedoms we currently possess to generate happiness for ourselves and others.
Manuj Sharma
"Using truth in communication - full-time - is one way to achieve it"....well Rhona, this thought is debatable. The full time truth to self is different from full time truth to other?
Rhona Pavis 50+
Manuj Sharma
Thanks.
Colleen Steen 500+
You ask... "the full time truth to self is different from full time truth to other?"
Can we honestly be truthful with others if we are not truthful with ourselves? Can we honestly be happy or content with ourselves if we do not share that with others? Can we give something to others that we cannot, or will not give to our "self"? Do you think/feel that perhaps those who are happy/content/truthful in themselves are the ones who can honestly give that to others? Perhaps everything has to start within our "self"? Is giving or "being" something with our "self" so much different than giving something or "being" a certain way with others?
Manuj Sharma
Mwenjew Wewngwa
I also think that you have to be before you are.
And you can only be to the extent that you are.
you therefore cannot give sth you dont have,
is it then true that you cannot experience something outside your mentality ??
Eduardo Martinez
Deborah Hoad
Eduardo Martinez
Deborah Hoad
I don't have to trick myself into believing I have a constant, unchanging core. I'm not even the same person I was a week ago. I'm not scared of death (dying, yes, but not of not existing). Not since I left religion and became an atheist, anyway. :)
Eduardo Martinez
Colleen Steen 500+
I thought you were suggesting that truth with our "self" is different than truth with others.
What you meant is that we can choose to be silent with our truth rather than sharing information that might hurt others. So, the truth, as we percieve it, may not really be "different", but we can choose not to express it?.....I agree:>)
Manuj Sharma
Helena Collins
Eduardo Martinez
Deborah Hoad
It is not possible to try to change someone without first judging them, or why would you see the need? It is also rarely possible to accept a need for change in yourself and effect that change without a hit to the ego. But so what? Do our egos need that level of protection? I'm not disagreeing that we should be kind, but in my experience people who attempt to change others without hurting anyone's feelings usually come across as incredibly patronising in the process.
Deborah Hoad
'to be 'honest' is to openly convey the 'facts' without dissemblance.' How does conveying the facts (as we perceive them) with tact or consideration or even analysis make that communication dishonest?
'How can someone possibly hope to live up to such an arbitrary standard.' It is context that renders such a standard arbitrary or not. A request for facts alone from a witness in a law court, for example, is not at all setting a standard of honesty arbitrarily. Also, this seems to argue that we should not expect anyone to be honest, because it is not possible for them to be honest. But that is only true based on your given definition of honesty, which is not at all the way most people define it.
'Honesty presupposes that we understand some 'deeper' truth of the external/internal world.' No, it doesn't. Honesty is not at all defined by how clearly we understand the truth fo the matter. Honesty is reporting the matter as we understand it. Complete honesty means that there is no difference between what we perceive to be the truth of a matter and what we communicate about that matter. We add nothing. We leave nothing out. If we are mistaken, then we are, but if we delivered what we perceived to the truth, then we were not dishonest.
Eduardo Martinez
Deborah: I find the aforementioned statement quite problematic; it presupposes that there is flawless translation in terms of externalizing internal thought processes. This, unfortunately, is not the case--I am referring to linguistic barriers. The constraints of language force us to be "reasonably deceptive". You can never hope to be "honest" with anyone, because language forces us to push our thoughts through the liminal threshold of vocal/written expression. Once an internal abstraction is molded into the metaphorical box of a word, something magical happens: the meaning of your original sentiment takes on a whole new life. In essence, the word's prefigured meaning covertly influences the meaning of your original 'intention'. Therefore, systems of language have their own particular influence on expression--they end up readjusting and re-configuring the original "message".
Deborah Hoad
Does it ever occur to you that fiercely pulling apart words this way is counter-productive to real discussion? Serously, in a discussion on the statement, 'we can only be true to others if we are true to ourselves', a deconstruction of the concept of self is about the least useful distraction I can think of. In order to have the discussion at all, one has to assume (even if only hypothetically) the existence of a self. And that seems a reasonable place to discuss from, seeing as every functioning human being in the world (including you who believes it is delusion) has a sense of self.
Eduardo Martinez
Colleen Steen 500+
I believe we came full circle with part of this topic. I percieve the practice of "reading the silence", as an underlying perception or intuition. When/if we are in tune with all emotions, we have opened the heart and mind to accept more information, which is carried by the energy that flows through our body/mind. So, rather than chasing happiness, we can recognize the energy of happiness/contentment flowing through us?
Manuj Sharma
Practice of reading silence would be very interesting. I feel that more communication happens by the silence between words and letters than by the words themselves. However, one needs to be very very sensitive to read silence even without words. You, ladies, are good at that.
"When/if we are in tune with all emotions, we have opened the heart and mind to accept more information, which is carried by the energy that flows through our body/mind." ..wow, Thanks.
Colleen Steen 500+
So, back to happiness/contentment. Most people on this thread agree that it is something within ourselves, rather than external....correct?
What do you think and feel about this statement?
We can obtain, sustain and experience happiness/contentment to the extent that we are willing and able to explore within our "self"?
Mwenjew Wewngwa
And may I add,.... whatever other emotion and or feeling we would like to experience in our lives both positive or otherwise !
Remember, its the intention & attention that governs the intensity !
This explains why say, two people may go through the same experience whether good or otherwise but experience it on differing levels of intensity.
Manuj Sharma
"We can obtain, sustain and experience happiness/contentment to the extent that we are willing and able to explore within our "self""...well, like i said, there is nothing to be obtained and sustained, we just need to stop and see that what is, is. It can only be experienced with in. The challenge in sustaining it is not in making an effort but in stopping ourselves from making efforts to obtain it....even from with in.
Rhona Pavis 50+
Mwenjew Wewngwa
Ultimately, the choice is yours.Focus on the good and experience it with the intensity of the focus.You may however experience things that you never focused on (read no so good),but these will not afflict you intensly cause your focus was elsewhere.
Choose.
Manuj Sharma
From my experience...a truth is a truth...there are no layers of good/bad or positive/negative. If we begin to layer it, then our power of inner vocabulary takes over and begins to justify every layer of it to ourselves. However, the expression of it to others can be termed as harmful or beneficial in that time and space... thats the only choice we have...to express it or to choose silence.
Colleen Steen 500+
I like this idea that is developing:>) I agree Mwenjew...what we focus on expands:>)
What happens when/if we do not need to label experiences/situations as good/bad/positive/negative? What happens when/if we view a situation from a neutral place in our "self" without labeling it? What if we suspend our "truth", as we may label it, and percieve something from a different level of understanding?
I think of my near fatal head/brain injury and cancer for example. I wouldn't exactly say these were "good" experiences, nor would I say they were "bad" or "negative" experiences. They were simply experiences...life challenges that needed to be met in some way.
As Mwenjew insightfully says..."Ultimately, the choice is yours".:>)
Mwenjew Wewngwa
Am impressed by how you handled the injury and cancer experience, product of elevated thought, where you are the captain of your ship and determine how a certain experience is going to affect you instead of the reverso, being at the mercy of whatever happens to you
Colleen Steen 500+
Me thinks that humans often want to "KNOW" and be able to define the answer NOW, and that is why we sometimes get attached to labeling...as a way to "prove" that we KNOW the answer? And who are we "proving" that to...our "self"? I believe that when we are content/happy in our "self" there is nothing to prove, nothing to label, and we can detach from any attachment to believing we "know" anything:>)
Thanks for your kind words regarding the injury and cancer exploration. The head/brain injury was an excellent lesson in detachment from labeling, detachment from expectations, detachment from "knowing" anything at all!!! Interesting, because at the same time, I was divorcing after 24 years of marriage and my mother and father died around the same time...talk about lessons in detachment!!! LOL:>)
After the head injury and craniotomy though...after living...when they said I would not live ...after being unconscious and hooked up to life support systems for a couple weeks... they told me I would never function "normally" again. One question to myself at the time was..."WHAT THE HECK DOES THAT MEAN"???
At first I could not even walk or talk, so I detached from what I was PRIOR to the injury. I detached from any espectations of what I might be, or how I might function in the future. I detached from anything I had previously known about my "self", and dedicated myself to a new life exploration. I was content/happy in believeing that I would function to the best of my ability at any given time regardless of the circumstances.
This, I believe to be the underlying sense of happiness/contentment that is within all of us. We do not have to chase it. We have that energy flowing through all of us:>)
Mwenjew Wewngwa
I stand here .had to give u a standing ovation, least i could do. speechless, with no right words to express what I feel for you right now as they would seem sooo feeble next to your deeds.
You say, I believe that when we are content happy in our self there is nothing to prove, nothing to label, and we can detach from any attachment to believing we know anything.
This is absolutely amazing. I like this new concept of detachment, as it provides you with the CHOICE of what you would like to reattach to for your benefit. And even after all you went through you still believed that you would function to the BEST of your ability REGARDLESS OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES !
Colleen, I feel humbled and honoured to draw from your fountain of knowledge.
Keep sharing.
Colleen Steen 500+
Thank you for your kind words AND standing ovation:>)
There are, of course, many people in our world who face unbelievable challenges in their lives, and mine seems insignificant. One thing I often do, when facing my own challenges, is read about people who have moved through incredible situations, and it seems to minimizes my challenge. Another thing I often do when challenged, is volunteer to work with people who are much more challenged in his/her life. Change our thoughts, we can change our feelings, and change our lives. My purpose in sharing my life adventures, is to help inspire others in moving through their challenges....it's pretty simple:>)
Yes, I believe that when we are content, there is nothing to prove and we can detach from any attachment. You know this is not a new idea...right? This information has been passed down by teachers, psychologists, philosophers, sages, guides and gurus throughout history. I'd like to claim that it is my original idea, but I cannot:>)
Yes, we can make choices regarding how we accept and deal with the challenge. With my head/brain injury, for example, I did not consciously "choose" the circumstances. And I cannot deny the incredible lessons I learned from being fully present with the situation.
For example, I had the opportunity to move from a child like state to adulthood TWICE in this same body...how cool is that!!! First when I was born and secondly after the head/brain injury.
When I regained consciousness after the injury and craniotomy, I was AGAIN in a child like state emotionally and physically. Somewhere in the back of my mind (such as it was) I remembered that I learned to walk and talk before, and I believed I could do it again. I wasn't sure to what level, but I was going to do the best I could. Interestingly enough, a few months later, cognitive tests indicated that I was high average/superior!!! How the heck did THAT happen??? LOL:>)
Colleen Steen 500+
You write..."The challenge in sustaining it is not in making an effort but in stopping ourselves from making efforts to obtain it". I certainly don't think/feel we need to chase happiness/contentment, and we can stop "chasing" if we choose to.
I agree with Mwenjew's statement however..."Remember, its the intention & attention that governs the intensity !" In that respect, I believe that sustaining happiness/contentment is supported with our intention, attention, mindfulness, awareness, etc., and that takes a certain amount of effort, don't you think?
Edit...
This is what you wrote yesterday:>)
"ohh yes Colleen ! I am trying to explore, so far so good, but Its bloody effortful".
I agree...exploring, attention, intention, awareness, mindfulness, etc. takes effort:>)
Manuj Sharma
There is a very thin line. There is a thought involved even in stopping the mind from thinking. The more we do this mental walk the thinner the rope becomes...and sooner we reach a state of a ropeless walk, the mind gets astonished... gets awakened just to make the bloody rope appear again...and so on and so forth. I dont know what happens after that, haven't gone ahead of this yet.
Mwenjew Wewngwa
>>..."The challenge in sustaining it is not in making an effort but in stopping ourselves from making efforts to obtain it".
I think this is excellent, its a good indication of our true state of being.
Manuj, ROPELESS WALK - love it !
Eduardo Martinez
Colleen Steen 500+
Yes...it may take effort if it is a new concept we are embracing:>)
The more we practice, the less effort it takes and it becomes a natural, normal state after awhile....in my humble perception and experience:>)
Manuj Sharma
That also makes me think, that i am yet to see an alien with extreme emotions in any sci-fi film, except Mars Attack. In ET, the emotions of the alien are very subtle. I think film makers are some of the most important people in shaping societies. What do you think? Do we need a film "In pursuit of nothingness"?
Why TED allows only three layers of dissection of a thought? Cant put fourth thread without breaking continuity of thoughts.
Colleen Steen 500+
I'm honestly not very fond of your "new concept"..."is the humans race becomes emotionless by dissolving all extreme or subtle emotions?" Why would we want to do that to ourselves? I LOVE experiencing all the emotions, because it reminds me that I am alive and living life with gusto!
I agree with you that films contribute to shaping societies. Many times, in sci-fi films, we see things that much later are proven with scientific research:>) Did you see Avatar? Emotions CAN be subtle. Just because we don't express emotions with extreme outward actions/reactions does not mean we don't feel emotions on a very deep level. In fact, maybe it is a deeper level, when we're not "spending" the energy with all the common outward manifestations? That's one reason I keep using the word contentment rather than happiness. The feeling of "contentment" seems to be more subtle and quiet, while the feeling of happiness seems to be more acting/reacting...what do you think?
Yes, TED allows only three layers of comments, and I realize that Rhona will get the notice for this response...oh well....you may get it eventually Manuj:>)
Rhona Pavis 50+
Colleen Steen 500+
I got it by ESP...LOL:>)
The thumbs up are fun, because it reminds me that I'm having discussions with like minded people. That however (discussions with like minded people) creates the pleasure and joy of this TED experience...thank you for that:>)
Rhona Pavis 50+