- Manuj Sharma
- Mumbai
- India
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Why do we chase happiness?
If each emotion we experience is for a reason then why do we try to not to experience some of them as they are? Why there is a race for happiness out of the entire range of emotions? Is it a new phenomena or has the happiness always been sought the most? Is it a human need ?
Tomasz Wasiak
I think non-human interaction, such as a human to dog, is different because the dog has more difficulty choosing whether to allow the human to influence it emotionally or not. The dog most likely uses tonality of voice and body movement to decide an emotional response and has more difficulty ignoring certain triggers which would influence their emotional state. If you yell at a dog, it will experience negative emotions. When you yell at a human, they will have similar emotional reactions as the dog, but they can choose to move through these initial emotional reaction and can decide to simply not allow you to influence them emotionally. It's called emotional intelligence.
I think the bottom line is that every second of your life where you are awake, you are broadcasting emotional information for other beings to received. You can choose what to broadcast, but it is not your choice on how these beings will perceive this information.
timber maniac 20+
Thomas Anderson
I recommend the book "The Five Things We Cannot Change: And The Happiness We Find By Embracing Them" by David Richio.
I agree with Mr. Richio that: Our brain is designed for 4 basic emotions: (SAFE) Sadness, Anger, Fear, Exuberance... Not only does our brain crave exuberance, it wants to avoid sadness, anger, and fear...I believe these are the needs of every creature with a central nervous system.
Happiness is a feeling, not an emotion. Happiness comes in many different varieties and flavors, based on the quantity and intensity of the four basic emotions. A Brain is simply trying to reduce SAF, and trying to obtain E.
Humanity will probably never know why...so I am glad we have philosophy.
Christophe Cop 500+
positive emotions feel good
negative emotions feel bad.
We are programmed to seek good experience (and pleasure/benefice) and avoid bad experience (and pain/harm).
So I think the answer lies in evolution.
Our current culture is a bit exaggerating though
Colleen Steen 500+
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Christophe Cop 500+
I think that when I point out exaggerating, I mean (1) that we are currently struggling with a discrepancy between how we evolved to experience good stimuli and how we are creating these super stimuli that have some negative consequences that we are not 'programmed' to face. and that (2) we might be over-stressing the idea that we "need" to be happy.
I don't think we need to. Feeling neutral or a bit negative or pessimistic is not wrong.
As for cultural evolution, and the adaptation of our brains to it: We start to figure out how to elevate happiness, and apply that to ourselves and society in general if we wish to... I think that's not bad. As long as it does not become like "soma" or that it does not divert us from seeking truth and accepting reality.
Colleen Steen 500+
I think we are agreeing? I agree that some people are "struggling" with discrepancies...that is pretty apparent here in TED conversations! I believe that feeling whatever we are feeling at any given time is good:>) I also do not feel that we need to label things/feelings as some of these conversations are trying to do.
You say..."as for cultural evolution, and the adaptation of our brains to it: We start to figure out how to elevate happiness and apply that to ourselves and society in general if we wish to". I agree...that is good:>) Is this similar and/or related to my statement/question..."Do you suppose that the exaggerated feeling is caused from the fact that we retain more information and are exploring that information more than we have in the past?"
It seems like we are saying the same thing? With cultural evolution, we adapt, start to figure out how to elevate happiness, apply to ourselves and society, this intensified use of our brain/thinking/more information sometimes causes a "struggle"? And/or discrepancy in how we were, and what we are evolving to?
Christophe,
I will tell you honestly, that with our interactions, I often feel that we are saying the same things, and your comments seem formed in a way that feels like they are in opposition.
Christophe Cop 500+
Yes, Colleen, I think our opinions are very close to each other...
Maybe our approach is just from another angle, so that the formulation seems more opposing than the actual content.
"Do you suppose that the exaggerated feeling is caused from the fact that we retain more information and are exploring that information more than we have in the past?"
Hmm
I don't know, but I think it is at least a partial cause.
Jack Booton
"Happiness is like a butterfly.
The more you chase it, the more it eludes you.
But if you turn your attention to other things,
It comes and sits softly on your shoulder."
Henry David Thoreau
Fountain Abani 500+
Thomas Jones 100+
You must be speaking metaphorically because, as I am sure you must know, we do not come into the world complete and whole.
Happy?
I'd be interested in hearing how you came to this conclusion.
Our first expressions in the world are (usually) tears of pain and, perhaps, grief.
Manuj Sharma
I tried and could not revive the experiences of the time i came into this world.
Could you both please share how you figured that we came complete & happy (-Fountain) and how our first expressions in the world are tears of "pain" & "grief" (-Thomas)?
Thanks
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Thomas Jones 100+
The grief is a guess. Grief from being "expelled" from an environment that was maintained perfectly for one's comfort and development.
I know of one child whose mother went into labour and gave birth 20 minutes later. The child did not seem to experience much trauma ... she was the mother's third.
I do have memories of my own from about 18 months but my introduction to the world was somewhat unique. I do not think my experience is common.
Do you think being born is a pleasant experience?
Manuj Sharma
Here's a link to both expressions together... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuYhQS4aVdQ
The chase i am questioning is different. This is running away from some memory cells or chasing some memory cells. Ok...if our emotions are stored in memory cells as references and if each memory cell has a limited life span. Then, by remembering good feelings we multiply pleasant memories and by remembering unpleasant memories we multiply unpleasant memory cells? Does that justify the chase for happiness ?
I think i am beginning to find the answer.
Colleen Steen 500+
Perhaps this child is demonstrating what you describe in another comment?
You write..." is a child born with all this ? Or is a child born blank?....and then these emotions get labelled in its mind as per his exposure?"
Could the child in the video be simply "feeling" and reacting to those feelings without labeling? I believe crying and laughing are very connected:>)
Mark Hurych
About that video: I think we have more in common with the infant than we care to admit as adults. Not that they use memory cells or that they pursue happy memories as we might, but all humans have a capacity to synthesize happiness. I believe memory actually gets in the way of our reaching happiness and well-being. The video shows a learning experience for the capacity to synthesize happiness. It is not just an odd behavior. The infant laughs because he is gaining that capacity to create well-being. (synthesized happiness TED talk http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.html )
Find happiness switches, not memory cells.
Happy thoughts,
Mark
Thomas Jones 100+
I am not sure I am following you but, when they are born, babies do have LOTS of "memory cells." They are not a "blank slate" as we used to say. Far from it.
I am told being born hurts. I don't remember my own birth but having witnessed two, I have no difficulty believing that it hurts ... a lot.
You may have heard the expression "neurons that fire together, wire together." So, yes, "remembering good feelings" will strengthen those connections.
I think you would enjoy studying neuropsychology. Amongst other things, it has a lot to say about happiness and "memory cells."
Manuj Sharma
Thomas Jones 100+
Both.
But "blank" isn't really the right metaphor.
Colleen Steen 500+
I agree that when we are born into the human experience we are whole, complete, trusting, honest, happy, content, unconditionally loving. I believe that life experiences often cause us to disconnect from our true selves by building masks and defences which are supposed to protect us from feeling vulnerable and hurt. The challenge is that the protective defenses also keep us from experiencing life to the fullest, so we feel we need to search for those "parts" of our "self" that we are not experiencing...."our real essence", as you say. That may be why so many people are searching outside themselves for happiness. It can be frightening to let go of the defenses and feel vulnerable, and that is exactly what is needed to "know thyself" and experience true happiness/contentment.
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Fountain Abani 500+
It makes a lot of sense that we all listen to others, read some books, watch so many TED videos because in us is a great bank of knowing which is inate but silent and untapped but is staired at the entrance of knowledge. This knowledge we can gain from our experiences or by learning from that of others.
Just as Colleen and myslf said before, when we set out in pursuit of happiness, we often think it is in pursuing so many things but one others point us to ourselves through their teachings we are reawakened to awareness and consciouness.
Manuj Sharma
Thomas Jones 100+
Manuj Sharma
"I agree that when we are born into the human experience we are whole, complete, trusting, honest, happy, content, unconditionally loving." .... is a child born with all this ? Or is a child born blank?....and then these emotions get labelled in its mind as per his exposure?
As far as labeling of emotions is concerned....can we say that there may be many more emotions yet to be explored and labeled ?
Colleen Steen 500+
Manuj Sharma
Mwenjew Wewngwa
Me thinks that we are born as a clean slate - nothingness so to speak, and just as a software developer writes codes for a program, the environment were born into coupled with the experiences we encounter, kind of moulds us along the way.
How do you take this ?
Thomas Jones 100+
We're not born as clean slates. We're born already knowing a lot. (There is a TED talk on this ... does anyone remember what it is called?)
Koen Wesselman
https://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/annie_murphy_paul_what_we_learn_before_we_re_born.html
I believe you're talking about this talk?
Manuj Sharma
Mwenjew Wewngwa
many thanks !
Colleen Steen 500+
Much of this information was available to us 40+ years ago when I was having children. I guess that's when I learned more about babies/children:>) It was well known, scientifically researched and proven way back then, that babies start to be programmed even BEFORE they are born. All of the child's systems are directly connected to the mother, as they are developing. How can we ever think that they would NOT be influenced? When are we, as humans with intelligence, going to start paying attention to so much information that is available to us???
timber maniac 20+
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Colleen Steen 500+
I think I may understand what Tyne is expressing, and hopefully she will pop in to clarify. You say Manuj..."lets forget happiness for a moment. Seek Fear & Anxiety".
Here is another "experiment" I suggest, and it is a way that I live my life. Try embracing the feelings of happiness, fear and anxiety all at the same time. We are multidementional, multi sensory beings, capable of experiencing several emotions/feelings at the same time. I call this being comfortable with discomfort:>) For me, happiness/contentment is a way of life that is part of the foundation of who I am and how I live my life. We can be frightened and anxious, and also realize that it is part of the life experience, so we can, at the same time, be patient, compassionate and unconditionally loving with our "self". This is how the underlying feeling of happiness/contentment can be part of every moment of our lives.
Perhaps Tyne is saying that she focuses on the happiness rather than fear and anxiety? When we focus on fear and anxiety, that becomes the reality in our lives. When we focus on an underlying happiness/contentment that we can tap into, then that becomes the dominating reality:>)
After my head/brain injury/craniotomy, while unconscious, hooked up to life support systems in ICU, they say that I was smiling and giving everyone thumbs up, even when the body was near death. Happiness/contentment is one of the dominant "parts" of the underlying foundation of my life, no matter what is happining in my life...or death:>)
timber maniac 20+
timber maniac 20+
Colleen Steen 500+
I believe emotions/feeling are meant to flow, rather than be held onto, and that's why I like the use of the word investigation Tyne. When you say "cultivate negativity and nervous feelings", you mean focus on them? Hold onto them? I agree that to cultivate and focus on negative, nervous feelings is unhealthy for the body/mind.
Thanks for asking Manuj, what do I suggest? I suggest that it is not helpful to tell another person what s/he "needs" to do.
Manuj Sharma
Colleen Steen 500+
Like I said, it appears that Tyne knows herself pretty well, and can probably teach us if we are open to that possibility:>)
Manuj Sharma
Jean-Pierre Walker 20+
Colleen Steen 500+
You touched on a very important piece of the puzzle:>) "It chases us but we keep on missing it".
I agree!!!
Opportunities for happiness are all around us...the people we love and who love us...the fact that most of us have food in our belly, a safe shelter, clean drinking water, and freedom. To me, these are things I am grateful for, and happy/content with every day of my life. How many people in our world do not have even the very basic needs met? I agree Jean-Pierre, that many times we are missing happiness........ because we are too busy chasing happiness?
Mwenjew Wewngwa
Colleen, Colleen, Colleen !
Thomas Jones 100+
Manuj Sharma
I agree with all of you here. However, i would like to put it bit differently.
I feel that no emotion is chasing us. We are a set of different emotions in different proportions. And mostly, all are caused by us and exist with us all the time. However, we want to have & feel only the pleasurable ones. Its ok (if not good) till this point. I think the problem begins when we think that this art of self deception is the way of life. We keep ourselves/mind busy with the chase of happiness/pleasure so that we dont have to experience self in totality.
Tim Eirich
Happiness = Contentment
If you find you are living your life around, "I will be happy when I get this or I will be happy when we do that..." You will never find happiness because you will continue to look for that something else. Once you put a condition on something or anything for that matter it suggests something as being final and over. Happiness within is never final but is ongoing contentment with the current moment and what is right now. Living in the moment and creating happiness now (as many others have already stated) is the key in my humble opinion.
Deobrat Gupta
you seem to have stormed all kinds of emotion buddy...but you know people battle through the tough times only for a reason which is happiness, if was not there he would have dealt or probably lived with it...so it is the fruit one get or simply a result...and being happy keeps your mid away from aging..
i am too young for all this but have witnessed it a lot and am telling you out of my work life..
Cheers,
Deobrat
Erin Tuncan
Mwenjew Wewngwa
You say, Happiness is ever changing ! - sooo true
Things that made me happy last year dont right now, and the things making me happy right now may not next year. Its been said here, happiness is a way of travel, not a destination and differs from one person to the next !
Why would you say that happiness should not be experienced all the time ??
Erin Tuncan
Thomas Jones 100+
You are mistaking relief for happiness.
Relief from, say, grief may "feel like" happiness by comparison. In other words, if we remove the grief (or sadness) we will feel happy by comparison.
That is like saying if we remove the darkness, there will be light.
You cannot create light by removing darkness.
You remove darkness by shining a light.
Light is something. Darkness is its absence.
Happiness is also something. It is not the absence of another thing.
Happiness is not ever changing. What is ever changing is that which temporarily distracts us from a lack of happiness. Entertainment, enjoyment, pleasure, distractions like TV, movies, and such, often provide pleasant experiences and we interpret this as happiness. We soon get tired of our distractions and notice our "base state" (whatever it is) and it creates the illusion that "happiness is ever changing."
QUOTE: "...we must first find what makes us happy, and only then can we begin to chase it."
This is a contradiction in terms. If we find what "makes us happy" we will have already "caught it" and so there will be no need to chase it.
Of course, the syntax alone will trap us in an endless and futile search: nothing can "make us happy."
Happiness is a choice.
Happiness exists (like light exists) and we choose to experience it or we choose not to.* (We may need to learn how.)
---
* There are exceptions: for example, people with severe mental illness cannot "choose to be happy" and there are certain extreme circumstances where choosing might be as close to impossible as to make it so.
Peder Mortvedt Isager
Landon White
1obsolete : good fortune : prosperity
2a : a state of well-being and contentment : joy b : a pleasurable or satisfying experience
Happiness is different for everyone. What makes you happy may not make me happy. And many people's happiness is either an illusion, or short lasting. Happiness cannot be bought, and in many cases is hard to sustain for long periods of times. Many of our other unpleasent emotions are simply a result of our unhappiness.
Happiness is a human need, and research conducted on babies proves this theory. Being over stressed is unhealthy, as is depression and feelings of anxiety. Everybody needs something to live for, something to look forward to, and something to be happy about.
Mwenjew Wewngwa
Definition 2 sounds more like happiness to me. i.e 2a : a state of well-being and contentment : joy b : a pleasurable or satisfying experience
Definition 1 tags it to materialism which may bring happiness but cannot guarantee it !
But as you said it, happiness is different for everyone. A rich and miserable life may still bring happiness to someone
Uday Pasricha 100+
Colleen Steen 500+
What happens when we DO NOT "keep changing our measure according to society"? What if we have our own measure?
What do you mean when you say..."...can afford to live with integrity"? Are you suggesting that integrity has a cost attached to it? I don't quite understand your statement.
Uday Pasricha 100+
Colleen Steen 500+
Are you saying that living in the "messy urban existence" is NOT happy, while "in a constant state of bliss in some remote island or cave" IS happy? Some people may percieve the opposite:>)
I don't believe that our external circumstances necessarily creates happiness. It is our perception of our circumstances that cause us to be content, or not. As you say, "we must know that happiness is not "something"". It is a feeling we have in ourselves. So, I don't agree that happiness is simply a "fortunate experience", but rather how we percieve the experience. I don't agree that happiness is "almost always because of an external stimulus". External stimulus may cause one level of happiness, and I don't think/feel that it is the underlying happiness we have been talking about here. I don't agree that the "criminal must be thrilled and happy". I worked with criminals in the dept. of corrections for 6 years, and I did not witness "happiness".
Mwenjew Wewngwa
Can you really experience true happiness without integrity ?
Or even other emotions feelings such as joy, love, harmony, contentment, or even success ?
Uday Pasricha 100+
Colleen Steen 500+
Integrity:
"an unimpaired condition; soundness; firm adherence to a code of moral or artistic values; incorruptibility; the quality or state of being complete or undivided; completeness; honesty".
Personally, I could not experience true happiness, which includes all feelings and emotions without integrity. Could someone else? Good question! I don't think so. As Uday points out, however, "evil people derive happiness from evil deeds". I don't agree with that, because although people sometimes may appear to be happy while performing an evil deed, I think that evil deeds adversly impact us on another level. I don't honestly think/feel that evil deeds create happiness.
Mwenjew Wewngwa
I like this word - incorruptibility
Morally degenerate, tainted and not genuine are words that can be used to describe corrupt.
I tend to think that these evil people mistake the rush of adrenalin, and as we learnt of dopamine and seratonin, that they get from doing evil deeds to be happiness !
The question here then is, whatever these evil people are feeling, take a step back, watch them closely. Can you honestly say that they are experiencing true happiness ?
Thomas Jones 100+
And I don't think we "chase happiness" (happiness is an inner emotional state) we chase things we think will make us happy. Usually we are wrong.
For example, many of us "want" children because we think they will make us happy. We are so convinced kids will make us happy, we tell ourselves, and others, we are happy when we do have children. But, it turns out, we are actually happier without children. ("We" is the general "we" ... there are exceptions.)
We may think money, or religion will make us happy only to find they don't.
We chase things we think will make us happy.
Verble Gherulous 20+
However, while I have known people who have indeed had children to try to save a marriage (believing that it would create a bond, and subsequently, bring happiness), I must state that the vast majority of people have children for two reasons: they either are content with their lives and realize that it is time to take that next step in life, or they've had a big "oops!". (yes, I've had children under both condittions).
But I will say that regardless of circumstances, children themselves bring to our lives a happiness that is indescribable, because they bring this happiness along with the stress and the tensions and the worry.
Yes, I have read articles that say the childless are happier, but I disagree with your implication that people in general choose to become parents in order to chase elusive happiness - that chase is more in the realm of chasing money, power, prestige, things, and sex. But not children.
Thomas Jones 100+
Virtually everyone says this (it's a variation on "children are a blessing.") But using different testing methods, when we measure how happy people are with children (not how happy they say they were) it turns out there are not that many things that make us less happy than being with our children (commuting is one.)
QUOTE: "Yes, I have read articles that say the childless are happier, but I disagree with your implication that people in general choose to become parents in order to chase elusive happiness - that chase is more in the realm of chasing money, power, prestige, things, and sex. But not children."
Perhaps it's been a while since you spent time with 18 to 30 year old men and women ... children are often perceived as a source of happiness.
This seems to be true of women everywhere but, here in China, the men also embrace this belief ... more so than in North America.
My last two comments are anecdotal and based on my personal observation.
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It is likely we "choose" to become parents because we are biological organisms and that is what we are programmed to do. If we thought procreating would make us unhappy, it would defeat the purpose. It makes sense that believing children will make us happy would be a thought pattern that would be "selected" for.
Verble Gherulous 20+
I can not comment on Chinese culture, but I can accede to the point that the biological need to procreate might be perceived as a chasing of happiness. However, I interpreted the question to be speaking to what we consciously determine will make us happy - such as buying that car or landing that promotion. Yes, it's been awhile since I've been 18, but i would venture to say that relatively few people say, " I'm unhappy. A kid would certainly solve that!"
As for consciously chasing what we think will make us happy, yes, we do. The sadness is that often we will chase what we think will make us happy, but we either never achieve it, or when we do,we find that it is hollow and empty.
And yes . . . Regardless of what happiness or misery they being, children are a blessing. As cliche as that sounds, they are. We can't often see it, but their blessing is that they force us out of our own selfish need to chase our own happiness, and find that fulfillment though the fulfilling of the needs of others.
Thomas Jones 100+
We seem to be in agreement on several points.
However, I do not think people say, "I am unhappy ... let's have a kid." In fact, most of us would not say we were unhappy at all ... probably because we are not unhappy.
I think the point is, we often think something else will make us happy (or happier) and I do think kids would be one of those things.
I also think it is useful to make a distinction between happiness, pride, and other positive emotions. We do feel pride in our children (usually) ... and we have a justifiable sense of pride in ourselves when our kids turn out to be not too badly damaged. So, sure, having kids is satisfying on some levels (by the way I do have one) but that is not the same thing as saying kids make us happy.
QUOTE: "... [children] force us out of our own selfish need to chase our own happiness, and find that fulfillment though the fulfilling of the needs of others."
I disagree with this statement. "Chasing happiness" is not selfish ... it is what we do. It is our primary responsibility.
For example, Matthew 6:33 says, "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."
And biologically, we are programmed to maintain homeostasis ... if we are "out of balance," we seek balance. (We're just not always right about what will restore our equilibrium.)
We should "chase happiness" until we "catch it." It's just we need to chase it in "the right way." If we are chasing a dog and it goes east, we will not catch it if we go west.
And we cannot fulfill ourselves by fulfilling others. We can, and I think we should, draw pleasure from creating an environment that enables others to fulfill themselves. But we cannot fulfill their needs for them, nor will helping them fulfill their needs, fulfill ours.
You cannot drink water for me. I cannot eat food for you.
Sam Browne
At the moment of her birth, and as I held her, I was overwhelmed with what I can only describe as feeling a deep, unique flood of perfect love and joy, along with disbelief at having become a parent - we had created another human being!
In the months following I definitely had ups and downs, and often wondered what might have been had I not accidentally become a father. But as time has gone on, my child's existence has created a maturity and joy in me that I couldn't have accessed without her being in my life. Her happiness, which is undemanding, innocent and beautiful, is my happiness. Watching her playing at the beach, or dancing to music, or learning something new and wondrous that we, as adults, take for granted (the sensation of a cat's fur, the taste of an olive, an acoustic guitar chord) gives me constant joyous moments, along with a general feeling of emotional warmth and and contentment when I am spending time with her. My life is much, much happier thanks to having my daughter in it. My guess is that the majority of parents would feel the same.
Mwenjew Wewngwa
I also enjoy giving.
As you say, time, mind, energy, complements, hugs, kisses, love, even a smile !
Is it me or do you also get the feeling that these seem to pack more punch than the materialistic things ??
At least no one can say they are too poor to give !
Comment deleted
Thomas Jones 100+
Verble Gherulous 20+
Thomas Jones 100+
It kind of depends on who I am giving to or from whom I am receiving. So in any given situation I might have a preference for giving or for receiving.
But it averages out. So I would have to say I like both equally.
How about you?
Thomas Jones 100+
You disagree with my view that having children, and being a parent, is not a source of happiness.
It is not really "my view" although I do agree with it.
We are actually "designed" to feel euphoric when we have children. It is natural and normal that we do. (It doesn't always work though as we see with postpartum depression.)
I think most of us are "happy" much of the time ... or maybe it is better to say we are not unhappy much of the time. And there are many things that we like.
But, the point is, over time, there is a higher degree of likelihood we will be happier without kids than with kids.
Does that mean you would have been happier without children?
There is no way of knowing.
Are you happy with them? Obviously!
The research will not tell us what a specific individual will experience; it only tells us the likelihood of a given person experiencing this or that. And, at that level of generalization, it is more likely that kids will contribute to our unhappiness.
My personal view is that if you are already happy, you will still be happy if you have kids. If you are not already happy, having kids won't help ... and will likely exacerbate the situation.
And, happy or not, having children is not "fun" ... late night feedings, diapers, financial obligations, concerns for safety, and so on.
Rewarding? It can be.
Fun? Not so much.
---
A large percentage of divorces happen within the first 18 months after the birth of a first child.
Sam Browne
You might have seen the TED speech, however, showing that on average, winning the lottery and losing a limb (at two opposite ends of the spectrum i.e. the happiest you can be and the least happy you can be at the time of the event) are fleeting moments of joy and despair. While we would suspect that these events would result in a permanent massive increase or decrease in happiness, people return, pretty much, to their set happiness point within 6 months of this event. We've all bought some material thing - a car, a pair of shoes, a computer - thinking that it will enhance our lives and make us happier, only to find moments, hours or days afterwards that we are no better off than we were prior to purchasing.
In the research you refer to, the researchers cite the experience of those in their 40s and 50s and beyond with no children as being the happiest. They are well travelled, financially secure, own nice homes and cars and so on. The least happy are those that have children late in life - because they know what they are missing out on now that the kids have put an end to their lives of material success. But my guess is, the perception of lost opportunities to build material wealth (and therefore be happy) is what makes people unhappy. In reality, having that wealth probably would not have made a jot of difference to their level of happiness.
Thomas Jones 100+
No, I am not referring to research that says people believe they would be happier without children. In fact, when asked most people say they believe they would be happier with children (or if they had had children.)
When we "look at our lives" we see them the way we think they should be ... most of us think we should be happy with kids.
The research I am talking about is based on asking people to report on how happy they are ... at the moment. (I don't know how the research was done but I imagine it involved random pages on a beeper of some kind, and a journal.)
When asked to report on how happy they were feeling "in the moment" ... people self-reported one of the lowest levels of happiness when they were with their children. I believe commuting was the only thing that was rated lower than spending time with children.
I think you are right, there is a TED talk on this ... it is also being written up in books like "Stumbling on Happiness" and others. I don't remember which book, or books, I read it in ... if I stumble across it, I'll let you know.
Uday Pasricha 100+
Thomas Jones 100+
I think we may be missing a point or two. The point isn't that children make us miserable (obviously that is not true ... well, most of the time.) The point is we are more likely to be happier if we do not have children.
The research was not based on perceptions or idealism, it was based on what we actually experience. And we experience more happiness more often if we do not have kids (generally speaking) or so the research says.
Our personal experience will not actually tell us much because we cannot have kids and not have kids at the same time. And it's probably a good thing that having kids is rewarding (imagine if it were not so.) We are not really that good at remembering how things (really) were; or anticipating how they will really be, for that matter. We're better at knowing how things are.
So is it wonderful having kids?
Based on our subjective experience; or notionally:
Many, but not all, people would say yes.
Would we be HAPPIER without kids?
Most, but not all, of us would say no.
The research says yes, we would be happier.
But the research findings are generalized and will not apply to everyone. And like I said, for any given individual, the answer is not really possible to know.
As for the giving receiving thing ... true giving and true receiving are, in my opinion, quite rare. When I open myself to either, they are both powerful experiences.
Verble Gherulous 20+
I think that's probably a distinction that he should bring to the main question. Why do we chase happiness? Why do we chase the illusory and temporary happiness when we could be seeking the state of being ("joy")?
Still, though, Iapaet from this tangential exalt of children, what do we think about why we are looking for happiness?
Mary M. 100+
I totally agree with your statement..."We are not really that good at remembering how things (really) were;" You are absolutely right!! How do I know? I'll give you an example:
When my husband and I moved to Miami, and we bought fresh baked bread at a bakery, I was all excited for him to try the bread. After tasting it he goes: this is terrible, the bread back home is much superior.
Well guess what? After one year, he went back home to visit his family. And the first thing out of his mouth when he came back here and got off the plane was: "the bread back home is terrible". We both laughed very much.
Seems like grass is always greener....but then you go over the fence and realize yours is much better.
I'll end with this illustration: A dog holding a bone looked into a pool of water and saw another dog with a bone. Wanting the other dog's bone, he proceeded to try to grab it, and so let go of his own bone. His bone sunk to the bottom of the pool, and of course there was no second bone because he was looking at his own reflection.
People chase what they already have......we can be happy, it is a choice.
You can be happy with children
You can be miserable with children
You can be happy without children
You can be miserable without children
Ultimately, the choice is yours to make...Choose to be happy..
That is my humble opinion
Mwenjew Wewngwa
And can i also add > the same for everything else in this world !
You can be happy as a billionaire but you could also be a miserable one !
Happy as a poor man, but also content with no material wealth.
I have personally experienced this and can say that, going after those things that I think will make me happy doesnt make me happy after I get them !
Bastian Brandt
Sincerely Bastian
Colleen Steen 500+
You presented another reason why happiness seems to be elusive to us! Resistance! I totally agree...when we resist something, it usually persists. When we try to resist circumstances of our lives, it becomes an opposing or retarding force, which you insightfully recognize. I believe this force or resistance prevents us from moving forward. It keeps us from reaching our goal, which could eventually create happiness/contentment in our lives? Good for you for knowing you have the power to change things...Kudos to you:>)
Harsh Bardhan
I chase everyday but at night I see some awkward things happen in My around i just forgot today what we Got ...nothing.
so we just spread Love around each other that is happiness. Now the best thing is happiness is always not come in form of Smile Sometime come in form of Tears if we accept this .... than we say Happiness always with us so I dont want 2 chase happiness. It is always with Me.
Harsh......B
Thank u for this conversation...
Colleen Steen 500+
You talk about a good concept. Happiness does not always come in the form of smiles. Sometimes it comes in the form of tears as well. There are tears of joy, and tears of sadness. Do you know that it is scientifically proven that tears and laughter BOTH release healing chemicals in the body and mind?
Peter Law 30+
I think happiness is bound up in being content with your lot in life.
I have the blessing of only workin in the mornings. After the initial shock of the alarm, I am motivated to go to work. I work with interesting people & enjoy reacting with them. My greatest regret is that they are looking forward to holidays, retirement, or anything that gets them away from work. They are chasing happiness. I like holidays as well, but to be honest, I get more fun out of working with people. That, for me, is happiness.
We need to take a good look at life & acknowledge where happiness lies, instead of believing the stereotypes; work=bad; holidays=good. Maybe we have chased so hard after happiness that we've overshot the target !
:-)
Dean Marc Co
The belief has always been that we pursue happiness.
But I think the pursuit itself is what fulfills us, though we scant recognize this during the chase.
Pursuit equals Happiness.
Colleen Steen 500+
"Remember that happiness is a way of travel, not a destination"
(Roy M. Goodman)
When we "recognize" that we can experience happiness within the life journey, we no longer need to chase/pursue it? Perhaps we need to recognize and acknowledge that it is the journey in which we experience happiness/contentment?
Harsh Bardhan
Thankx..
Colleen Steen 500+
I think it is wonderful that in Hindi language your name..."Harsh" means Happy!!!!
Wherever you are, you are "Happy" all the time...I LOVE it.
I agree with you that we are here to share experiences, and I'm grateful for your presence here on TED Harsh. Thank you for your kind words:>)
Rosemary Call
Colleen Steen 500+
We can "create" our life experiences:>)
Manuj Sharma
Harsh Bardhan
Thomas Jones 100+
Happiness equals happiness.
"Pursuit" often triggers expectation and hope. You may have observed this in yourself: A twinge of "discomfort," in the moment, followed by the anticipation that "something" will make it better. The something could be more money, more recognition, watching TV, eating food, believing in heaven, etc.
Then we do (or pursue) the "something" and the discomfort is replaced with expectation and hope ... but only for as long as we keep on moving. When we stop, we feel the discomfort (which never really went a way.)
We like hope and positive expectation more than we like discomfort so we keep on chasing happiness .... because the pursuit is better than the alternative ... but, as long as we are chasing anything, it means, by definition, we haven't "caught" what we are chasing yet.
If we "caught" happiness we would not have to do or chase anything.
David Grammer
Colleen Steen 500+
You say that we continue to chase happiness, no matter how irrational or dysfunctional the pursuit to avoid facing other emotions? I agree that this concept may be part of the scenario.
I've found that facing all the emotions in myself is the way I recognize happiness/contentment in my "self". Knowing myself because of the exploration in my "self" gives me information which helps me understand myself and others. The exploration and knowledge contributes to my self knowledge, self worth, self respect, which all contributes to my happiness/contentment. When I have that in myself, I can share it with others, which again, contributes to happiness/contentment in myself and others. It feels like a wonderful cycle:>)
So, with the constant pursuit of happiness outside our "self" we may be actually preventing ourselves from experienciing real happiness/contentment? Sounds like a different cycle that prevents happiness/contentment?
Obey No1kinobe 50+
Colleen Steen 500+
Less striving, more appreciating, gratitude and being in the moment NOW contributes to more peace, happiness and contentment:>) Sometimes, we (humans) spend a lot of time and energy chasing something that is in us right here and now:>)
Manuj Sharma
Cheers!
Colleen Steen 500+
Manuj Sharma
Obey No1kinobe 50+
Just like a full stomach feels better than an empty stomach.
From an evolutionary perspective the good feelings rewarded behaviour that enhanced survival, the drive to reproduce and to help our offspring survive - from an individual and group perspective.
The things that give us pleasure or cause our happiness can also have negative impacts if overdone or used/pursued in ways that cause other problems. Problems may also relate to our tendency to give short term pleasure precedence over longer term rewards, and additive natures.
Food keeps us alive - too much reduces our life span
Recreational drugs feel good - too much depending on the drug (some may be immediately damaging or additive others less so). This includes cigarettes, alcohol, caffeine and all the illegal ones.
Sex feels good - but there are issues.
Adrenaline buzzes, sport etc.
Suggest there is a continuum of risk of a downside e.g. Heroin at one extreme perhaps something like meditation at the other. Yes even meditation taken to extreme might have adverse consequences - social disengagement, starvation etc
Colleen Steen 500+
It sounds like you are advocating balance? I agree with that! To find balance in ourselves, it's important to know our "self"...yes? And to know ourself, it's important to face all the emotions? There's that cycle again!!! :>)
Obey No1kinobe 50+
Manuj Sharma
Benjamin Richards
Kathryn Buwalda
Happiness is money or is it? Happiness is the golden rule, or is it?
Money can make life easier, no one can dispute that. We can use money to help others and bring happiness.
Colleen Steen 500+
So, do you agree with David Grammer..."that the question contains the answer"?
Mark Hurych
As an American, I've spent the better part of my life fully believing that it is my inherent right to both pursue happiness (see Thomas' nasty 1776 letter to George III) and derive happiness from my choices in life. Even my brand of soda becomes my propaganda enhancer. All humans want to be good, just, and honest. The cultural message I got was that if I was honest about what I wanted in life, then I had to admit I wanted to be happy. Yet I remember that even as a young child watching Superman shows on TV, it bothered me that this super hero from another planet felt obligated to "fight a never-ending battle for truth, justice, and the AMERICAN way." Somehow my "pursuit-of-happiness" cultural tradition had an internal contradiction! Your other questions may be legitimate starters for some interesting research projects. The last question, whether it is a human need, I think is false. I think we often confuse the comfort of insured survival and safety with our projected image of future happiness.
Aren't you glad you asked this question? [:-)
Mark
Manuj Sharma
Thanks buddy. Will see the letter.
hey Mark, could you please forward me the link to that letter? Thanks
Mark Hurych
I was a bit sly with my reference. I was trying to be funny. Thomas is Thomas Jefferson, the major author of America's declaration of independence, and George is King George III, then being the oppressive monarch we were breaking away from. Actually there was a pleading "we promise to be good" letter of 1775 (see http://www.revolutionary-war-and-beyond.com/olive-branch-petition.html ), and then there was the nasty nagging complaint letter of 1776, the declaration of independence (see http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/ ).
Enjoy the wonderful US History lesson. Here's my mental excerpt from the document from memory: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.
Ta ta
Mark
Manuj Sharma
Cheers!
Kathy Cinquemani
Manuj Sharma
Rene Prins
Everyone has a different opinion about that, but in general there are alot of people that do not know any good reason and therefore try to make the best out of it. People feel that if they aren't happy, their feelings mess with their minds. People want to set goals for themselfs, they want to feel that there is something to live for. Happiness is nothing more than 'feeling good'. People simply want to feel good, so they set happiness as their ultimate goal of life, simply cause they want to feel good and set a goal for themself.
Manuj Sharma
Asgar Fakhrudin