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Arie Johannes de Vries

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an interactive government website, REAL democracy by the internet.

if democracy is the will of the people, why is not that the people rule over the government? i think in these days of a false democracy where people can vote on who they want, but in the end knowing far to less of that person and his goals itself.
what if, we had an interactive website with all those dissensions made by the government made by the people of that country itself. what if we all had the chance to think about for example 'the economic crisis' and try to find a healthy solution where everyone involved could look at and vote on our idea. the idea with the most votes could be the best idea for us all.
why is that we vote for people who we don't even know with some great ideas, instead of voting on those ideas itself. We could reward the best idea with some amount of money, instead of paying some person with some good ideas in the start every month until he quits or until the next election campaign. TED.COM proves us how impotent ideas are, and we don't care who it is, who speaks out their idea, but we care about what he/she has to say to us and if we like it.
think about the ability to decide yourself what your country would spend our taxes on. do you think the will of the people can handle this 'heavy' responsibility? i think; YES WE CAN. (if we want this)

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    Jan 16 2012: Arie, first I have to tell you how much I love the spirit that dwells within you. Your words are welcome here all the time. I am anxious to learn more about your government and I will try to do some homework concerning that. Due to my battered soul I am very skeptical and I mean no disrespect to anything you have stated, but this sounds so out of touch to me. I would definitely be thinking that our government was setting me up for the big fall should they ever exhibit compassion as yours has.
    I am afraid our system here is a very mature and sinister state of affairs. We have secret government sponsored organisations which have no other purpose but to disrupt and disperse any and all civil rights movements. One is called cointelpro
    I have to go to my nephews basketball game now. I hope to speak more with you abut this later. Thanks again, Arie, for your spark of life, liberty and respect of creation
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    • Jan 22 2012: wow, great job! the website looks great, and i can find anything i need. i've registered the site, but I ain't an American, I hope you don't mind?
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    Jan 18 2012: Greetings Arie,Pardon me for dropping out of the conversation. I will be happy to speak with you anytime, however, I seem to be suffering under a cloud of cynicism. I think it is the illegal motions by our elected officials with their attempts to destroy our liberties in physical time and space and on the internet. I do not want to bring negativity to this wonderful place we meet, here at TED.com, so I am going to take a sabbatical until I reign in my attitude and begin to feel strengthened, again. Before I take a break, though, I wanted to give this information to you. It sounds a little similar to what you are envisioning so I hope it may provide some direction for you.
    www.the-99-declaration.org
    Your TED friend, Tim
    • Jan 19 2012: i've red all statements of the 99 declaration, but it was a quite hard task for me reading so much in english. but still I think I've understood most of it. a lot of those statements could be used as guide lines for voting on my website.

      i've also did some research about direct democracy. in finland and australie there are already such political movements in the government. the start of this new democracy has already been made. I used to think i was one of the first with this idea. but i think some people got ahead of me, wich is not a problem at all. it even inspires me more for bringing this peacefull voting revolution with politics without politicians in this world/country.

      thanks for your support and interest in this idea, i'm really gratefull for that.
      your ted-mate Arie,

      p.s. don't think to much about the dark future, think about what you can or should do to make it a bright future.
      (although you are doing a great job already by joining the occupy)
  • Jan 17 2012: While I tend to think that you are right in the long term outcome of a global democracy you seem to overlook the importance of the principles to which individuals adhere. Social policy for example with always remain divided between naturalistic and theistic ideals. Moreover, scientific solutions to apparent problems, climate change for example, must remain beyond popular will. Always keep in mind the tyranny of the masses.
    • Jan 17 2012: what if this tyranny of the masses, would be a greatly informend group of masses. now-a-days people don't care actually, but if I give them the power to really change everything in political power. there would be discussions with other people about all te problems of the politics has to keep a hold on at this moment. those discussions give people reason and motivation to know more and more.

      i don't care about difference in ideals, i care about the best idea's comming from those ideals.
      • Jan 18 2012: Ah, OK. So you would be happy with the good ideas of a theocratic majority?
        • Jan 18 2012: theocratic? i've translated it and found something like a god sociaty, (did I mistranslate?) because i don't really know how much religilous people live where you live. but in the Netherlands I think it won't be as theocratic as you think.

          But to answer your question; Yes, even if it would be as theocratic as you say, i would be happy that everyone in this country had the posebility to make a change for the country they live in.
  • Jan 16 2012: It would be interesting to tie the ability to vote on an issue with credentials of experience or education of that issue. That might reduce the amount of emotionally persuasive arguments and leave us with a discussion of quality information. I mean, what am I ever going to know about "nukular" reactor safety?
  • Jan 16 2012: I tend to be labeled an idealist a lot and I definitely have your enthusiasm but here are some very real pitfalls to this idea that if are ignored, you will end up with a government that is as effective as "Occupy". (that's a slam against Occupy, if you weren't sure how to interpret that).


    ""what if we all had the chance to think about for example 'the economic crisis'"""
    Although, we all have a right to an opinion, some peoples opinion have more value than others. You are not going to rely on your very best friends opinion if you have blood coming out of your ear, I hope you'll agree, you'll trust a Doctor. So I'm not sure if having everyone's opinion is what we need.

    ""solution where everyone involved could look at and vote on our idea. the idea with the most votes could be the best idea for us all.""
    The problem you run into here is unintended consequences. You cannot identify a good idea until you look back and observe the effects. No one has a crystal ball. It is very easy to point out the flaws in politics from hindsight and I think we under value many great people who choose politics because they think they can make a difference, when we lump them all together as crooks.(I am guilty too)

    More than all of that, The amount of time I spend in the voting booth is nowhere near the amount of time I spend shopping for all of the things I "need". That is where you are voting on how the world is going to behave. If you just keep buying stuff because you want to, without being concerned about how it got to you, that is the problem. We will run out of everything, chasing that dollar down to perdition. Cheers!
    • Jan 17 2012: ""what if we all had the chance to think about for example 'the economic crisis'"'
      as if you say so that some peoples opinion got more value than others, wouldn't it make sence that the opinion with the most value would get the most votes on my site? would it help if we get some economists (in this example) to underbuild the top 5 best idea's with the most votes. and with their feedback make a revote between those 5 idea's? would that make you more secure?

      ""solution where everyone involved could look at and vote on our idea. the idea with the most votes could be the best idea for us all.""
      bad idea's might happen, but aren't bad idea's to be learned from, and try to make a better more waterproof version the next time? what do you know about bad mistakes made by the government now-a-days? with no disrespect to all the politicians, they can make mistakes also. and when they made a mistake, they get a kick under their ass or maybe fire themselfs under pressure. when that happens someone else jumps in his position, able to make all those mistakes all over again. we don't learn from the mistakes other people make, we can only learn from the mistakes we as an individual make, by thinking it over and over.
      in the country where i live, are living 17 million people on my side. how is it possible the government of 150 seats knows more about any subject in politics, than the 16.999.850 people.
      they may have their view about making a diffence, but i rather think that 'we' as a whole can make far more difference. 'One for All, and All for One.

      democracy is kinda old-facioned now-a-days, back in 1312 the year that the first signs of democracy came to the Netherlands. they could be at all the places at the same time, they wouldn't ever had known something like the internet came across.

      i'd like to think of this idea like Direct Democracy, Aki(va) Orr wrote a book about it, called 'Politics without Politicians'. i haven't red this book YET, i just found it actually.
      • Jan 17 2012: Hi Arie

        First I think you have a great idea here and your intention are absolutely clear and so this an evolution of Democracy. Open source does have merit. What you have here (metaphorically speaking) is some precious metal, let's beat into a work of art.

        Some of the problems we face as a globe require immediate response. There are 300,000,000 people in the US. If We have to go through 300million ideas on the issue of Health Care Reform, I will be dead of old age before we act.

        The 150 politicians (because actually, they are still part of your public) will be able to generate a more informed decision in a timely fashion than the 16.999.850 because of the reason stated above.

        We need to come up with ways to focus the voice of the masses into solid ideas. As I suggested before, We get the masses to go to university and from the perspective of being informed (being a student) evaluate our options.

        @ the world If "YOU" do not take the time to become properly informed about information that "YOU" are putting out, then you are part of the problem not the solution. (This statement does not exclude me)

        I am not making an argument against you here. This is a point you must address in your solution. I also have some solution ideas and am trying to work the kinks out of them before I speak them. I already have some ideas floating around the wwweb that I wish I could pull back and rework so obviously we are not finished yet. Good Luck to yours and I'm watching your developments with interest.
  • Jan 16 2012: TED does not seem to share your opinion of free speech. I have had 2 things removed from post by TED.

    I would love to share with you the content of those posts but it would only be removed by TED.

    If you are interested, I will share our conversation with you.

    lewis,stephen101@gmail.com "letmesee" in the subject line and I will copy paste

    It is short and only in Word.

    I tried to post it on Youtube but I am not internet savy so I don't really know how to get you there and I don't think it went out to the world like I wanted it to.
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    Jan 16 2012: I want to speak with a positive flow and when we speak of dishonest people, apathetic people, or uneducated people it is very difficult to come across as a helpmate without sounding like a doomsdayer. Truth is not always pretty. In the posts prior to my own, people have identied many of the complexities of the existing population, not the existing government. It has been said, the government you have is the government you deserve.
    We have a population that is as dishonest as those who were sworn to represent us and they won't demand transparency for anyone else if they could not exist under the same microscope. Deception for the greater good is taught in our universities.
    We have a population who cares about no one but themselves. They seem to think as long as they are okay then others who suffer must bring it on themselves.
    We have a population who are unable to admit the level of malice within the politicians. They refuse to allow truth into their hearts and minds, then they may have to be responsible for a change in their own lives and that is out of the question.
    We have a population that is more worried about college and professional sports than they are the future of their children, they know more about the history and family of quarterbacks than they do the politicians who represent them in congress, they are passively entertained.
    We have a population unaware that we do not have a vote. The votes are maniplulated.
    The stark reality of a population, one of few in this world who really does have the power and ability to change something, yet, remain apathetic and behave as though they are oppressed. When in contrast, the truly oppressed in this world, the ones without power, money and ability are the ones who take to the streets, sacrificing all that they are and all that they have for a change they dream of for their children.
    Your idea is beautiful and ideal. I think, First; we must end the Federal Reserve. Second; end personhood for corporations.
    • Jan 16 2012: it's true the most people are already so influenced by the television and newspapers and other media. but i'm not scared of uneducated people, or selfish people, i think they won't even got a slight interrest in my website. or if they have, i would appriciate their vote for whatever reason they have voted. my goal is to awaken the people by thinking for the best of the country, and ofcourse a lot of mistakes can happen by the wrong people voting for private reasons. but when we make those mistakes, we will learn from in for the future. i'm not counting on the honest people to make this a succes. i'm counting on the people who think for importence of the majority.

      you think need to end the federal reserve first, but i think we need to starting thinking like a unity, before we can reach endless goals, like ending the banking systems, or before we can even reach some control of the corporations.

      i saw on you're profile that you're from the U.S.
      like claudette cohan earlier said it's quiet unthinkible in the u.s.
      but in the Netherlands where i live it's possible, we got already a political party for the animals (no joke) in our government. we've already had the no-vote party, wich didn't reached the government but still they tryed.
      it's even cheap to be on the voting list, around the 450eu. excluding all the campaign investments.

      i'm thinking about campaigning at Occupy Movements all over the country, do you think the occupy would be a good target group to spread my messenge? are there things i should know about before i'm going there?

      I'll Keep on Dreaming...
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    Jan 11 2012: Here in the US, votes come from familiarity, familiarity comes from visibility, and visibility is bought. I love your idea, though. It would be nice to live in a country where this concept was even thinkable.
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    Jan 9 2012: "the idea with the most votes could be the best idea for us all."

    yes, but it also could be a very bad one. how do you know? i mean, we trusted people to choose leaders, and see what we were able to come up with. disappointment.
    • Jan 10 2012: dissisions made today could also be very bad ones, and offcourse some ideas could be bad. but aren't we learning from the mistakes we make? if leaders today make a mistake they move on and take another job.
      in return we get a new leader, giving him te chance to make the same mistake all over again.
      if we had a chance to comment and talk about it wouldn't that connect the government with the normal people? i don't know how many people in your country vote, but last time in the Netherlands was 75% and it's getting less and less every time.

      what i'm trying to say is, we lose faith in leaders, but we don't need leaders, if we got a hudge amounth of ideas.

      how can people choose leaders without knowing them, or what they are capable off? we don't know anything about them, we just see them on the television and if we like what he/she has to say, we vote for him.
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    • Jan 9 2012: what if, there would be an inlog system with our passports/ id cards. this will reduce te spam / trolling by a hudge amounth. what if, censorship would be censored, just like youtube, you can see it by clicking on it.

      thanks for your comment, maybe you got some more possible problems / issues / tips / etc?
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        • Jan 9 2012: that's where the danger is.

          They can also warn or punish people who are not trolls but who do not further their "policy".

          to be honest i don't see a problem here, what is wrong about when people don't follow the web-policy, to first warn, than tempirally ban, and maybe after that fine people on a government website where chaos may not control the site. nowaday we got cops who try to punish people who are not following the policy of the law. why can't there such a law policy on the internet?
          --

          ---Ted.com is the prove for me that this is possible.

          I've yet to see that, though I'm new to the site and it takes "time" before being able see something like that.

          offcourse something will take a lot of time, i need a lot of thinking about all possible problems, and find solutions for them, whereafter the new solutions bring on other problems etc.

          to make such a thing happen, there is also a need to start a new political party, wich has to promote this idea of a web-based democracy. i'm thinking about a name like (Nederland
          Denkt Zelf) Netherlands thinks self. and eventualy co-operate with other web-based democracy party's all over the world to evolve in the Global democracy for the Global world policy. wich will probably happen anyway.

          Rome has not been built also in 1 day. but once there was a day they just started building over there.
          --

          --every problem got a solution.

          I like your optimism though, reminds me of Lennon :)

          I like your critism, it makes me think about solutions, and i need people like you, to start thinking things over and over.

          Thanks!