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Religion or science?

Fairly enough this has been debated so manny times but i feel the need to bring this back up for a reason. I love logic and reasoning but both science and religion meet their end at obious points. To me religion is just a stroy to guide people in the right direction as science tries to find answers. Now im going to give credit to science and then a brief idea. Science maps out our existance Heres how. Dose it really make sence some one superior and all powerful created every single species in this world and the universe? That he created every species the way they are and they have not changed? I mean Religion dosent meet its solid facts at any point, If you think evolution is dumb and that thres no way it could of happened then your telling me all the spicies stayed the same for the past million years? Now for the idea what if god did create every thing and it evolutionized over time........ Dose this make more sence? i belive so but science has the upper hand. If you think im wrong or exagerationg post on comments about why with solid proof.


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    Joe B.

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    Jan 4 2012: I think there is little doubt that King Solomon and the people of that time had a significant amount of what we call scientific knowledge. It took scientific knowledge to build temples, to obtain gold and other metals from the Earth, to create the paints used to decorate those ancient marvels that amaze us to this day and the many other abilities for which we have archeological proof.

    According to the estimates I've seen Adam and Eve lived on Earth around 3000 to 4000BC or about 5000-6000 years ago. In contrast, evolution estimates the first structurally modern humans appeared around 200,000 years ago with the first behaviorally modern humans appearing around 50,000 years ago.

    If we assume Adam and Eve received basic knowledge of how to survive from a divine being, is it possible they and their subsequent generations were able to gain enough knowledge and a large enough population in 1400 to 2400 years to do and build all the things I mentioned above? How could they have built all the temples and pyramids of Egypt and Mesopotamia?

    What about genetic diversity? How could one couple produce all the genetic variations and belief systems we see in recorded human history and today? I think this has been scientifically proven to be impossibleā€¦unless there was divine intervention.

    Perhaps, this divine intervention only happens when we aren't looking. Kind of like the double-slit experiment that demonstrates the quantum characteristics of light. With recent developments in theoretical physics with String Theory and 11-dimensions of space-time, it becomes difficult to discredit the existence of a divine power. This is due to the fact these theories are in their infancy and partially because most people don't understand them.

    Only time will tell how this all turns out. In the meantime, enjoy the journey!
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      Jan 9 2012: Joe, a literal interpretation of any religion with roots in the bronze age is hardly worthy of debate. Especially one that suggests the Earth is 6000 years old. I mean even the light from the most distant stars and galaxies we see took millions and billions of years to reach us. We are looking back in time with Hubble. It's an error factor of 2 million. Even a lot of Christians who believe Jesus is part of the god trinity, was resurrected etc don''t think the world is 6000 years old.

      I recall Peter saying that the common elements in DNA life forms were economy of design rather than evidence of evolution. To think the gods created a universe with matter and energy spread over inconceivable distances, with huge empty spaces, just to focus initially on some desert tribes. Bit of redundancy I suggest.

      I kind of understand the drivers that allow people to still believe this. Some are really smart and well educated and informed. Still I think the dots are there to be joined if people start excepting that for most of history your religion was an accident of birth, time and location. If they look at other religions and see how they developed without the real god, there isn't much difference in the development of their own.

      Every fundamentalist believer believes their version is the right one. Over the thousands of years we've had so many different literal belief systems and yet some people continue to believe they have the truth.

      Even if the earth was 6000 years, for 4100 years god was just concerned with perhaps a million Hebrews living in a small portion of the globe and a relatively insignificant portion of the universe.
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        Joe B.

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        Jan 10 2012: I agree GM. I believe science is correct that the universe was created 13.7 billion years ago, the Earth was created 4.54 billion years ago and that the first humans emerged from apes around 200,000 years ago. I also believe that without widely accepted belief systems (aka religions) throughout human history the world would be very different for better or worse. Religions are a part of our human history and many people still rightfully respect those religions and the traditions of their ancestors.

        The one thing that keeps me wondering about a divinity is "me". Beyond a physical body, there seems to be something that keeps "me" looking though the same eyes, hearing through the same ears, etc. Are we all just unique, complex chemical reactions that will dissolved into the Earth after death? Is there some aspect of our existence that crosses into other dimensions or another part of the "multiverse"? Are we an attempt by the Universe to understand itself?

        If we saw God would we know we saw God? I doubt God is a white haired old man sitting on a throne among the clouds. Perhaps we have been looking at God all our lives. Perhaps, God is every thing around us; the entire Universe including ourselves. However, if we thought this we likely wouldn't be abusing our planet or each other the way we have and continue to do today. We may all still be hunters and gatherers. Religion served the purpose of getting us from being indistinguishable from animals to being who we are today and now it is time to move on...but not without remembering from where we came.
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          Jan 10 2012: Totally agree with your first paragraph.

          Share you wonder and appreciation of our consciousness and self. Obviously you are not alone in this contemplation. I for one think it ends when we die. Same as other animals (including the ones we eat) with less developed brains. We are just lucky to have the most highly developed brain and I suppose the richest conscious experience, while we live, until our brain processes stop through injury, age or death. The fact we can ponder this is part of the richness of our brief existence.

          Would we know god if we saw god? The God concept means so many different things to different people. Perhaps equating the universe with god is just as valid as others.

          Suggest our brains are what distinguish us from other animals and religion was just one of the many outcomes from our superior cognitive abilities, speech, and invention e.g. writing. Are we really that different from the great apes? Tool use, sign language etc. We just do more and better.
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          Jan 10 2012: Joe, regarding your second paragraph: you will enjoy listening to a TED Talk by Dr. Antonio Damasio speaking about consciousness. He believes SELF is an essential element of consciousness.
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        Jan 20 2012: http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Population_growth

        Did we really survive for 200,000 years with zero population growth? Isn't that a recipe for extinction.


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