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Sad Skeptic

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Against obvious logic, what is the reasonable case for Intelligent Design/God's existence? If not, why is the thought of such so prevalent?

The case for atheism is, frankly, obvious. To think otherwise is to put one's moral reasoning, partial life's purpose, and partial opinions behind the imaginative, to say the least, seems careless at best and wishfully apathetic at worst. As Richard Dawkins says, in the above video, the easy answers found in an unrealistic dogma can all too easily supplant scientific thought. A ignorance of such atheist precepts is rampant as well, at least in the U.S.; this quote from George H.W. Bush, though outdated, is quite revealing; "No, I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God." Extrapolating, more than 1/2 of U.S. citizens voted for him, and it was never really questioned fully by the media. How many Atheist congressmen are there today? Feel free to debate, haha.

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  • Dec 21 2011: It seems atheists will always be found wanting and never will there be deep satisfaction through exclusive use of logic. Logic can never explain feelings, values, moral senses, love, or prove with any amount of formulae or computers any person had or has not had experience with the Mystery of life.

    Logic may attempt to explain the beginnings of things, but it does not extinguish man's insatiable desire to know why. When computers lose electrical power, they die or cease to function. Are we able to prove all life is non-existent or never was designed when we reach the end of logical deductive thinking? The case for atheism is obvious only to those persons who know the not the Original Person and have no desire or interest in this Original Personality. Your second sentence may be your opinion, but who can say opinions are higher than the Omniscient One? All humans are limited to opinion as we honestly assess ourselves as being non-omniscient.

    Ignorance of atheist precepts is real, as you say. Most folks believe in something or some One of deity and of divine origin and therefore are willing to address their thinking to high ideals and live a life hoping for more of Goodness. What can logic prove about hope?

    George H. W. Bush spoke his opinion and beliefs just as all of us are able to express what we believe to be true. People act, talk, execute decisions and plans according to what one believes to be true. Consider the vast changes in beliefs since recorded history!

    Logic is useful to limits, although limits are sometimes vague and undefinable. Logic would have one believe if a barber could give a man a haircut in 10 minutes, then 10 barbers could perform the duty in 1 minute. But larger truth is that the 10 would interfere with each other so badly the job could not get done.

    The case for proving what logic cannot explain is profound, real, and spiritually beneficial to a person who desires God. The various religions are only partial.
    • Dec 22 2011: Very well stated.
    • Dec 23 2011: Thank you for replying to the thread, much appreciated.

      To reply to said points:
      "It seems atheists will always be found wanting.. Logic can never explain feelings, values, moral senses, love.."

      This seems odd - I thought the atheism that I attempted to elaborate on was not quite so keen to immediately find answers to all the questions of our universe, through the imagination of personal experiences with deities, scriptures written thousands of years ago, and the simple hope that things will be alright, as there is Someone watching from above. I would also like to refer to endorphins,logical thought, and identifying ourselves to a group as well.

      "it does not extinguish man's insatiable desire to know why."

      Is this the same insatiable curiosity that leads us to not want to find the out of reach, past the "fuzzy bounds of logic"? To accept that, through what can only be called "magic", some being rises above? Would you consider my comment in a reply to ThomasJohn1130? Thanks.
      • Dec 23 2011: Thank you for your kind civility in this very good conversation. I used the word "seems" beginning my comments. Its the best context I know because I don't know everything. I cannot testify about others experiences, but only mine. I know by faith that God exists and this faith is increasing through a real desire to move toward God.

        One day, at a time in my life when I smoked 3 packs of cigs a day I had a real, friendly, powerful, attractive, and desirable urge to quit. I was thinking about truth, beauty and goodness, extrapolating beauty to include the inside of the human body. We surely are colorful inside. In a few minutes I was aware of something good (described above) and realized cigs were defiling beauty inside me. I removed the cigs from my pocket and quit immediately, some 40 years ago. For brevity I can only say such an experience happened; is not explained by logic. It was real; and is my firm believe real spiritual ministry happened for which I am eternally grateful. I can't offer testimony of others' experiences. My was not halucination, but was real lucid and bona fide.

        Humanity cannot prove or disprove God through science, but man can use science to discover the material facts of Diety. Regardless of the material realities, spiritual forces are real and are revealed to man over time. Revelation continues.

        My experience gives me proof of relationship for it shows the Original Personality cares for and loves me. This was not a group psychological event, but was personal and individual.

        I don't ask you to accept any certain religion. I would ask you to consider personal love from on High. Spiritual realities are of God and his Sons. All this Providence is available to any person with faith. Beyond materialism, science, technology, philosophy, and lacking omniscience, there is only faith. After human death, lacking acceptance of sonship with God, there is only cessation of being, as though one never existed. My 2 cents worth!

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