emm dubahew

internetwork engineer, IEEE

This conversation is closed.

Are Occupy Wall Street protesters smart ?

It seems there is tremendous backlash for the police departments and you can measure more, each day.

In some regard, all the OWS are not very smart. The police only follow orders. Would you charge a usa marine with murder for killing an ''enemy combatant''? Of course not!! You have to hold the government accountable for those unlawful orders. Well, the police are just like the military in many ways. If you want to control the police does it not make more sense to not ''go after'' the police and instead you go after the people who control the police. It's so simple....what is the hang-up?!?

  • Dec 1 2011: Yes, I know what you mean. Ideas and actions need time to gel. When we do things, we want to be right and we want to be effective. I think it is good that there is the openness right now. People are throwing out ideas. People are discussing ideas. The USA was not built in a day. It will take more than a day to rebuild it to accomplish the positive goals of our citizens. The fundamental systems of our nation need resculpting. Let's do it right.
  • Nov 30 2011: its the public spaces I am referring to. For hundreds of years in the UK, wehave had public rights of way, legally protected and for the public useage. Whats interesting is when big business develops on this land, they have to preserve these public rights - if they didn't, in fact, the application would be rejected. Now we find out that they are not public spaces after all, but privately owned public spaces, and the right to use them can be withdrawn. This is theft, pure and simple. Many of these places now exist in London, and what gets pushed through under the guise of 'improvements' that will benefit a local community end up invariably being corporate entertaining spaces - look but don't touch. Pretty disgusting.
  • Nov 26 2011: In the UK, the occupy movement have highlighted a new and unknown problem, which has important repercussions for everyone. Maybe it is the same in the USA...

    In the UK, we are now discovering that what we assumed was public is actually private. The streets we use, and the squares that we we told were ours to enjoy, it now turns out, are there for us as long as we play by the rules. They are owned by private corporations, the same ones who steal our public money and hoard it for themselves. They now own the spaces we occupy, so to claim them back for ourselves is a strong statement to make. I support this movement 100%.
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      Nov 30 2011: In usa, people don't really own space. We can get property deeds for "buying land", however, this land is illegally taxed, and, if you don't pay the tax... ....u don't get to use the land anymore. It's the illusion of ownership. Furthermore, as it pertains to public spaces used by OWS, those places are closed down and OWS is denied use when they decide to send the police in to break-up the protest.
  • Nov 23 2011: Yes, the OWS protesters are both smart and courageous. They are living heros. They deserve our highest respect. Let us acknowledge together with the OWS protesters that the "emperors" have no clothes and change the defective parts of our system (e.g., tax loopholes, legal system, educational system, financial system) before an unpleasant American revolution is necessitated by the gross duplicity and injustices prevailing in our society.
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      Nov 30 2011: The idea of protesting the system, is something i too believe in, but, these folk are so unorganized. I mean, if someone would step-in and take the reigns and if they were dedicated to doing things for the good cause of other people, they could make president, easily, as 99% of the voters could be enlightened. You know what i mean?
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    Nov 23 2011: James,
    I contact my representatives on a daily basis via email, twitter and phone. I do not use up public resources as I do this on my own time as part of my daily life. This is done after hours like you do it. I think your group may be the best example of how it should be done but the movement as a whole is turning violent. I live is a small town in California and we have not seen the violence yet? Who is the group that coordinates this activity on a national basis? Why do not all of you work full time? What is the mission of your group? What is the one driving issue? I would like to know so that I can see it in the light of one person not the bias of the mass media. How will you know when you have gotten your idea across? What changes do you propose to the government? Why is your group not in the news as a leading way to do this instead of the violence and lawlessness that we see in other groups? Do you do press releases? Do you have a plan as a group to fix things? Could the time you are out there be time used to develop plans to present to members of government? As an employee I present plans to my bosses to make things better not just raise issues. I present plans to the legislators that come from my area. Do they adopt them? Usually No but I try to do something to fix the problem. Like I say I twitter a lot and sign petitions and letters to government officials. One letter equals ten votes is one of the rules. I am working to make it better on a daily basis and have for the last four years. I get no press time, TV time, radio time, I do not get into fights or provoke people. I try to encourage others to do the same maybe the time spent protesting could be changed into a time spent calling representatives, sending letters, twittering, developing plans to propose how to fix the issues and maybe you are already doing these things if so welcome to my way of changing society.
    • Nov 23 2011: Hi James
      I also write and meet with my senator on a regular basis, I just went to Harrisburg to discuss Fracking with her. It's is contaminating our land and water and nobody cares in government. I am at pittsburgh occupy getting one point accross and that is to get the corperations out of government and the government out of the corperations. Our politicians are professional pawns bought and sold by corperations who then both flex their muscle to opress the rest of us. I have been published seven times in newspapers and magazines on issues related to the mentally ill and often discuss their problems with my senator. The union pendulum has been swinging for a long time and I don't care for them hijacking our movement either. The big difference between you and I is that I'm sleeping outside in the cold and you are not and I do own my own home. The media is portraying us in a poor light because they are told to, go down and talk to people and find out for yourself what truth is. We do have a mission statement, a vision and many work groups, strictly by volunteering we do everything that needs to be done. We don't tolerate alcohol, drugs or firearms in our camp and we provide our own security. It is like a small community filled with people who respect each other and all of you. We don't all share the same views but we do have a common goal that is to be heard and take back our government. I'm glad you are politically active and hope you continue to try to bring about change, we need to wake others up to this reality because it's going to take all of us.
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        Nov 23 2011: We seem to be working towards the same goals. I have limited time as I work two jobs to make ends meet. Teaching is one of them and I work on a ranch the rest of the time. I wish you the best and maybe between us we can make a difference.
        • Nov 23 2011: Thanks James, all we can do is keep trying as a people, if we do nothing it will get worse. It's been nice talking with you.
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    Nov 23 2011: OWS is really not about protesting anything. It is about anarchy and union power flexing, it is a tool of the democratic party to try and win the election in 2012. I saw this in the 60's with the antiwar protests at the universities. These folks are either privileged people with nothing to contribute to society, students making a few bucks off of the democratic party and the SEIU and other unions, or the people who live off of the government handouts. In watching the news on all stations they are a mixed bag of people with useless issues, no idea of what they want to accomplish, and then the criminal class that feeds off of them. If these were really organized protests with a common theme would we have rape victims needing a tent of their own? OWS as I said earlier is a democratic party based attempt to distract the people from the mess they are making in Washington and the failure of the president to be anything but a high payed child playing at being president and old intrenched congress men and women trying to hang on to jobs they are terrible at. This is one observers opinion
  • Nov 23 2011: Hi EmmI am with occupy Pittsburgh and we are by no means stupid. We have doctors, lawyers, healthcare workers, contractors, artists and others in our movement. We are camped out on Mellon Banks lawn by way of the law, it's a public space and they are okay with it. We get along with the police and they beep when they go by, we have a sign that states that police are over worked and under payed and they are. There are hundreds of us and many work from offsite, we are trying to change the way our government works because it doesn't represent us anymore nor does it represent you. The police are controlled by the government I agree, but that we are not very smart I disagree we are just a young movement and have a lot of support except the press. Perhaps you should go down and speak with some of the people and find out what they are doing and who they are. Thanks for the question and take care.
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      Nov 23 2011: What is your point? How will your protest help the government get off the backs of business? How will camp outs fix the 15 trillion dollars of deficit? What plan can you propose to control immigration? Do any of your folks have an idea how we get congress to be morally responsible and not make themselves rich at the expense of the people ala Pelosi and others who do insider trading? Has anyone come up with a plan to stop the union thugs from beating up people? Is there anyone who has helped stop crimes such as theft, property damage, assault and battery? I have seen the rich elite running the other OWS meetings with fake committees who runs yours? Will you pay back the city for the costs of extra police, garbage services, sanitation services? How many are on government handouts? These questions should be considered should they not? The early Americans allowed debt to be free from England and then the leaders devised plans to pay the debt off. I do not see that in any of the OWS movements. Is this creating any jobs for people? Idealism is fine but in the end it is those who go to work and pay taxes that have to foot the bill. How are you going to honor them and pay it back? Please I would like to know these answers and not the same pointless raving that I have seen so far.
      • Nov 23 2011: First of all there are no elite running our meetings, we run them. Our sanitation is donated to us and the police never have to come. Many of us including myself work fulltime and pay through the nose in taxes the same as you. Morality can't be legislated so congress will continue to bleed us as long as we remain silent. As for the other problems you mentioned we all have ideas but no representation. What are you doing to help? I'll bet you just swallow it all and go to work with out doing anything to change it, at least we are trying. It isn't class warfare until we fight back, it's oppression.
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        Nov 26 2011: All we need to do is get rid of the fed and 99 percent of the economic problems are solved in one swift shot. Next, we just put, in charge of our resources, people who are experts at resource allocation. With that new government, 99 percent of the governmental problems will be solved. When we have a sustainable world, the remaining 2 percent of problems (eg, religion and such) can be solved and we be at 100 percent problem free. Now i ask you all, doesn't it make more sense to be 100 percent problem free than to have all these existing crisis brought about by; economy, government, fuel, etc. etc ??
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      Nov 23 2011: Well, everywhere on the internet, you can find violent police who bring handcuffs and pain to protesters. Many factions have been shut-down, as a direct results of police making arrests. Sometimes, these things can even be found in mainstream media. Yet, i have yet, to see ONE SINGLE PROTESTER attempt to control those who control the police, ....and let's face it, by-in-large, each protest is 99% controlled by those who control the police. If it's about making a difference, spreading the word, it would seem that could most effectively be done by doing just that, and NOT being in jail.

      At least .05% people in usa understand that the this country will NEVER be out of debt so long as there is a centralized banking system. Yet, all these protesters are talking about ceo salaries and bailouts?!?! This is another example of where are the intelligent people?!?! Stop paying ceo's and we STILL have the problem! Take-back the money for bank bail-out's and we still have a financial crisis, wired right into out economy, by definition of a centralized bank. Tell me-- where are the smarts in that?!

      I mean, if you're going to protest, you might as well make it worth-while AND do good for the benifit of other people, and, idealy, globally, as well. These things just seem like common sense to me, but, i really don't think anyone can argue, that the occupy protesters just don't appear to demonstrate such common sense. Like, sheeeit...there's 99% of the votes there, but, they are not being used to make a single change?!!?? WTF...FTW?
      • Nov 23 2011: I can't speak for any other cities but here we have contact with the police, the city council and the mayor so they are aware that we know who calls the shots. We have had 5 arrests and none of them were violent, everyone was released. We have a bus going to DC in December and will meet up with others. What do you want us to do, charge the government with crimes? We have a handful of lawyers who handle all that within the laws written. The problems in Washington are not going to be solved overnight but we will be here for the duration until change takes place. We are talking about the federal reserve you are just not hearing about it. Stop watching the news and go visit a sight and talk to people, then tell me we lack common sense. I think you will find that the lawyers, doctors, teachers, nurses, contractors and others will disagree.