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Anuraag Reddy

AIESEC India

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Why evolution could never solve aging?

Maybe aging is an essential mechanism to clear out the old and make way for the new like cells within a body?

Maybe every form of life is already close to the upper limit of life expectancy?

Maybe aging is in the nature of carbon based life and metabolism?

Maybe we genetically sacrifice our longevity to survive the stresses of competition.

Emerging Questions:
Is it that our metabolic processes are over-compensated for dominance in their sexual prime which prove detrimental for longevity?

Is it that genes leading to different lifespans are mixed indefinitely in nature that it was never possible to select for it?

Isn't an organism with a longer span of mating at an advantage?

My hypothesis:
In the absence of change in ones environment, or competitive stresses an organism would eventually adapt itself to survive longer.

If every organism is a product of evolution then there must of course be underlying mechanisms within itself to aid such an adaptive process.

Under the influence of adaptive pressure, it would encourage mutation or variations in order create successful variations and also increase the number of life-cycles and so reducing the lifespan.

Under the influence of competitive stress, the dominance would lead to reproductive success and not the span of mating during ones lifespan.

In the absence of change in ones environment leading to adaptive pressure, or competitive stresses from rivals to prove dominance. Species would evolve longer lifespans.

Just a Theory though! But it would predict that

Lifespans of living fossils which have undergone little change in time should be greater than their relatives which have recently evolved.

Life having evolved on geographically isolated places far from intense competitive pressures should have greater lifespans.

Living things higher up in the food-chain or with few natural enemies should have greater lifespans.

Life span in pair bonding species should be higher than tournament species.

Topics: aging evolution
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    Nov 27 2011: there are some species of animals that live for hundreds of years. and some scientists even ague that viruses may possibly be the oldest funtional biological structures on the planet, they solved the problem of death by ceasing to live = "nonlife", making them the most deadly and lethal earthly threat to all living organisms, they are like zombie vampires that hijack your cells and multiply within that cell hundreds of millions of times until they explode out of it. they couldnt be much more perfect.

    michael behe after charles darwin's findings came up with the theory of irreducible complexity which theorizes that through selection and temination, structures become ever more efficient and simple. what this means for complex organisms is less friction on moving parts, faster regeneration periods, less genetic flaws, longer life spans etc.

    Death IS an evolutionary advantage becuase of the fact that, becuase of environmental constraints, it makes room for more "experiments" (humans) to be produced. much like in the movie "evolution" the aliens were replicating in a practically exponential rate and rapidly evolving as a result. however thats a convenience of death, not it's purpose! evolution IS moving towards longegity, so long as we can produce the resources needed for our species to thrive. ---Mars here we come
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        Nov 27 2011: HI Tony
        Interesting perspective , enjoyed it.
        Just curious with your SATAN & GOD proposition..... so how you see it I mean the whole kingdom of living being result of GOD's will or evolution ?

        If SATAN can do anything whats so ever is it than again GOD's will ?
        If not SATAN is more powerful to over rule GOD's will......

        Curious to hear your thoughts
      • Nov 29 2011: Tony, I'd like to ask you just one thing. Are you here to preach or to contribute to the conversation here.
        We are talking about scientific facts of evolution and not about theological hocus pocus. Forgive me for being so crude but, I believe its necessary. You have brought up the irrelevant topic of christian mythology, about god and satan here when we are talking about evolution increasing longevity of evolved creatures. I dont think you quite understand the topic here, We are talking about random mutations that occur in living organisms that allow them to survive in their surroundings better. Its not something that the organism chooses to do or makes an effort to do. Evolution is based absolute randomness. When you bring in gods and satan into the picture you're effectively bringing intelligent design into the argument which, is absolute nonsense in itself. If all organisms were designed as version 1.0 and 2.0 we should see less random vestigial organs and vestigial construction in the biological makeup of organisms. For the time being I can give a few examples with regard to us humans, the human eye has its photo-receptors : the cones and rods facing backward with the retinal nerve passing right through it which creates the blind spot. Another being the vestigial organs such as the appendix, coccyx, nipples in males etc.
        Good and evil is a social construct and not something that the natural world exhibits. It might be disheartening but there is no other purpose that anyone is born with in life other than to ensure the species survives. All purpose that we find are what we give ourselves. So I urge you to give yourself purpose rather than to wait for it, and to indulge in a scientific debate when we are discussing science. Its good to believe in things that make you feel good, but one must always know when to draw the line as to the limit that it governs your understanding and way of life. You should govern your beliefs and not let your beliefs govern you. Cheers
        • Dec 3 2011: Stating those words to bring Tony 'into line' must have made YOU feel good. Do you see this self indulgence at Tony's expense as more virtuous or less emotionally driven than his? He seemed to simply refer to our convenient blindness to one side of a polarity that exists in all things. Eg. When we are trying to 'be right' in expressing our viewpoint, we are conveniently unaware we are concurrently aversive to 'being wrong'.

          Sure, in logic and science we draw lines. We 'draw a line' by saying everything must be rational and in accordance with rules or natural laws. But, by 'drawing the line' we create the very problem we wish to resolve. Fundamentally, THERE IS NO LINE. The idea of 'life' being a notable eg.

          THERE IS NO 'LIFE'.
          Some time ago humans 'drew a line' and said; "There is a distinction between the animate and the inanimate." We called things on one side of the divide 'LIFE' and on the other side, 'NOT LIFE'. Then right up to this day,we are trying to find 'the origin of life'. I suggest we don't find 'the origin of life' because we made 'life' up. WE ARE THE ORIGIN. Our logic, made it up! The concept of life only exists inside logic and we generate our logic. So try considering logic as just a self licking ice cream of self generated 'lines'. It cannot ever be the whole truth. A benefit of this idea is: THERE IS NO DEATH.

          So if you want to go down the rationalist's path to pull someone like Tony 'into your line', then be prepared to go all the way with rationalism. You will see that even your logic is funded by 'self drawn lines', or better put, 'irrationality'. I know mine is.

          "There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting." Buddha.

          So give the religious a break; at least they are couragous enough to accept some irrationality. And as an aside: The accepted scientific wisdom of today is that everything in this universe came from nothing. Now IF THAT is possible, then pray tell, what is not?
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          Dec 4 2011: I would keep myself as far away from this argument as possible but there is one rational man out here that I can entertain. They are all just theories whether religious or scientific, each plausible to a different mind but at least we can look back and say we have found a missing link from the dark ages.
          A lexicon acquired from brushing through a scientific manual doesn't make these people a formidable opposition to science or progressive thinking. So do think twice before you commit to entertaining their arguments.
    • S Das

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      Dec 8 2011: Julius N., good point about the virus. Others took a sidestep to your comment, but let me challenge it directly.

      Virii are living, so they do impact evolutionary aging. I'll explain by first saying: All life requires energy. Energy is the "lifeforce" of evolution and of living systems. Life requires two things: specific matter-structures and specific energy-types.

      Without energy, life ceases. We see this when an animal stops getting energy (eating), it dies (turns to dust, into simpler matter).

      Likewise, when energy is added [to certain configurations of matter], life begins/resumes.

      This is very apparent in a virus, which can be dormant (having insufficient energy to animate/activate), or can be "living" (active) if its environment or a host-cell gives it the right energy. Virii are very unique forms of life, since they can easily move from being "living" to "dead", and back and forth.

      We also see this in more complex life. Some of you might know of Dolly, the first lifeform we cloned (she happened to be a sheep). Well, the hardest part of figuring out how to clone was not the genetics, manipulating cells, or their structures. The most difficult part was how to "breathe life into the clone"... how to jump-start that cloned cell to make it start dividing. It was no simple feat. We know now, all it took was a bit of energy. They "jump-started" the cloned cell with an electrical current. This is another example of energy being added to "a clump of lifeless matter"... to make it living. And this was done to a clump of matter more complex than a virus -- maybe the most complex bit of matter we humans can repeatedly bring to life.

      The ease with which life can be controlled (enlivened or killed) depends on the complexity of the matter composing it. A virus is relatively very simple compared to all life we know, so it can easily be enlivened or killed. For this reason, more complex structures are harder to bring to life.

      Virii =life. Prions =nonlife.
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        Dec 8 2011: it doesnt seem to me that your challenging my comment at all, but rather challenging the idea that viruses ARE living organisms. my previous comment served the purpose of proposing that through evolution viruses have become irreducibly complex, meaning they couldnt be any simpler and carry out the same function. and the same status of optimum efficiency in achieving a objective which allowed bacteria to evolve into viruses is also constantly happening in every complex organism. 30 million years from now our anatomy will be much simpler than it is today, it will be much more efficient. our bodies will repair themselves faster, our organs will optimize their energy use etc.

        but in response to your comment i feel that viruses are neither "enlivened or killed" but rather take on form of active nonlife and non active non life(we do not yet know how to kill a virus). and since viruses are as much living as they are dead, they cannot either be categorized as living or dead. viruses are no longer comprised of systems. they dont have common anatomical charactristics of any living organism on the planet, the function they serve shouldnt be confused with the sturctures that allow that body to perform those functions. its not that im any more right than you are [in a philosophical sense] but our current standards by which we categorize life and non life have NOT been modified to make room for viruses to be categorized as either.

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