This conversation is closed. Start a new conversation
or join one »
At what point in the future will fate be certain?
Take into consideration that there is no fate; No outcome can be pre-determined with 100% accuracy.
Now, consider the opposite.
Technology advancements such as reading the human mind, data storage capacity increasements, quantum computing becoming more common-place, and other technology related to the mind have already occurred.
The question is not if, but when will observing the future of a mind's decision occur, and therefore eventually control of a mind's decisions (fate) on a larger scale begin?
Noteworthy references:
http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2011/09/22/brain-movies/
http://www.dwavesys.com/en/pressreleases.html#lm_2011
Closing Statement from griffin tucker
i don't think this question was effectively answered - yet.
i will re-write the question to include a new discovery as mentioned by mirella jaber to include limits on predictions.
many people commented that they hope the idea won't happen due to different reasons based on fear - the fear may just be very rational - but i don't believe that will stop it from happening on a larger scale. many moral questions need to be answered.
http://www.ted.com/conversations/7311/a_psychic_computer.html
mirella jaber
mirella jaber
I rather believe that
griffin tucker 10+
even without absolute 100% accuracy, a certain degree of accuracy would still result in being able to control the future, although with even less accuracy of control.
although 100% accuracy isn't exactly definable yet when dealing with simulating future reality and comparing it to when it happens, accuracy will only increase until it reaches a certain (now unknown) limit. all i know of the limit is that it will be under 100% accuracy.
this basically means that a particular computer will be able to predict the future up until a certain point - the limits of where/what and how far into the future are dependent on each other.
Michael Hagans
griffin tucker 10+
the programming algorithm predicts where the ball will end up. this is predicting the future.
the programming algorithm also calculates when the robotic hand or finger will come into contact with the ball, and then controls where to put the ball. this is controlling the future.
although this is predicting and controlling the future on a small scale, when taking into consideration just how powerful quantum computers are, what will stop these quantum computers from predicting and controlling the future on a larger scale?
Jaime Lubin 10+
griffin tucker 10+
it would be expensive, though.
for this to occur, not only would dna be required, but their entire environment leading up until their death would need to be reconstructed.
to get an idea of how expensive it would be, you'd have to go back to reproducing the big-bang.
Orlando Hawkins 20+
But more than that I hope that will never happen. You can talk about it using some sort of utilitarian language but I think this would be worse than something like Big Brother (Orwellian)
There are somethings that should be left to be private and peoples thoughts are one of them. If there is anything that is personal to an individual it is their thoughts and intentions.
It seems you are trying to create the the perfect, most moral society, which is fine, but there are other ways of doing so than trying to observe peoples minds. Besides, humans are humans, we are imperfect beings and this is something that I am ok with. I'm not saying murder, rape , genocide is a great thing (of course this should be at least decreased) but I also think that their are other factors involved in decision making (ones social system, genetics, levels of oxytocin, religion, family, etc) and it would be impossible to stop everyone from doing immoral things
griffin tucker 10+
there are indeed other factors involved in decision making - but whatever factor it is, i believe can be analysed and predicted by a computer. if it can be predicted, i believe it can be changed.
it's interesting that you mention oxytocin - i believe you were referring to http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_zak_trust_morality_and_oxytocin.html
Orlando Hawkins 20+
Now that you mention your perspective on this I honestly would not be surprised if the government would actually advocate for something like this. Even if such a thing was not innovated in the U.S. I would not be surprised if other countries developed such technology and then used individuals from less developed countries as guinea pigs.
I did not intend to create such a pessimistic view of this but I really distrust the major powers in the world and if your already posting things about this, I'm sure this has been talked about already by those in power. It would not be hard for them to say it was for security reasons so getting the public to support them wouldn't be hard to do.
At the time that I wrote my post no, I did not even know that talk existed until late last night and it was indeed interesting and informative but yes it would also support the claim that I was making.
griffin tucker 10+
this is not to say that the investigation will result in the application of quantum computing technology for this purpose, as other methods could be developed to provide the same result - individually, or on a mass scale.
on the note of pessimism - if you were to try and take an optimist's point of view on the matter, aside from the view-point that it won't happen, considering that you have the imposed power to change some of the result now, before some-one/thing else does eventually, what would you change about it?
i have actually thought about the concept for quite some time now, i'm not sure if the idea is new, but on the matter of free-will, i would suggest spatial areas (on earth or otherwise) that are designated enclosed radio-free and non-observed zones. although once exiting such a zone, the very concept would allow free-will to be over-ridden eventually, but continual frequent entering of these hypothetical zones would result in a form of 'encryption' which would basically mean more free-will for a specified amount of time until the encryption is cracked.
Bozena Zgrzywa
The idea of controlling human mind's decisions is - in my opinion - the part of totalitarism.
But - there are always so many scientists, politics interested in absolute control of people's mind - and maybe this horrror will become reality some day
griffin tucker 10+
perhaps a foolish question, but, why is it scary?