- Mrityunjay Awasthy
- Chandigarh(Ut)
- India
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Role of language in forming concepts
The language(s) we learn play pivotal role in forming concepts, as the words in a language have per-determined concepts and with spoken or written words, though deviating a little bit sometimes, we take such concepts further. When I think of a feeling, associated with words like fear, pleasure etc. I am amused to think about how closely such concepts are knitted not only with memory (with aid of language) but also how language has narrowed or limited the concepts.
This might sound odd, but I decided to post this after I caught a mice in my hands yesterday and I couldn't relate my concept of fear with that of the mice.
Closing Statement from Mrityunjay Awasthy
Thank you everyone for your invaluable inputs,
Until here and onward::
Thomas Jones:
Words are like road signs indicating our proximity to a city. Language is essential to the formation of concepts.
Tony Kuphaldt:
Words encapsulate ideas(By the same token, mathematics is a "language" useful for expressing certain powerful ideas in very precise ways). It would be very interesting to study how certain ideas spread within different cultures, where differences in language may influence how readily an idea is accepted.
Ed Schulte:
the fun is in watching the many ways Cultural conditioning unspokenly influences concept forming then merges with others and then meets in a "consensus" totally unrelated with any Culture ...just plain old Applied Science.
Ed also shared beautiful poetry by Rumi;
But when it comes now to the bare essence...it is not the words or language itself but what quality of awareness, what level of consciousness those words emanate from , that will define their effect(s). Language evolves with need of transmitting awareness concepts" and shall we now point out , but the oldest of all ....Silence ....are all transmitters of consciousness towards higher quality within our Species.
Rhona Pavis:
Humanity can change. We can change. It is possible that our generation will be the one that co-creates a positive world for all humanity. We have infinite choice about what to focus on at every moment of our lovely lives. May as well choose positive.
Debra Smith:
I think that many times human beings have experiences for which there are no words and we think of them in a spiritual sense because that moment feels so elevated- that gap between definition and something new.
Mrityunjay:
Reading
The Gay Science-Nietzsche-Book five-"on the genius of the species"
The feeling of what happens-Antonio Damasio
Consciousness Explained-Daniel Dennett.
I also suggest Cognitive Philology@
padis2.uniroma1.it:81/ojs/index.php/cogphil/
Thanks & goodbye for now :)
Thomas Jones 100+
Each sign indicates we are getting closer to Vancouver but none of the signs are Vancouver.
So we could say language is essential to the formation of concepts. Without language, no signs; and those points on the road - were we have placed our signs - would be meaningless. They would be real points but meaningless.
Mrityunjay Awasthy
Mrityunjay Awasthy
Debra Smith 200+
numinous [noo-muh-nuhs, nyoo-] Show IPA/ˈnumənəs, ˈnyu-/ Show Spelled
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: spiritual
Synonyms: airy, asomatous, devotional, discarnate, disembodied, divine, ethereal, extramundane, ghostly, holy, immaterial, incorporeal, intangible, metaphysical, nonmaterial, nonphysical, otherworldly, platonic, pure, rarefied, refined, sacred, supernal, unfleshly, unphysical, unworldly
I think that many times human beings have experiences for which there are no words and we think of them in a spiritual sense because that moment feels so elevated- that gap between definition and something.....something new.
Tony Kuphaldt 10+
By the same token, mathematics is a "language" useful for expressing certain powerful ideas in very precise ways. I'm happy to have studied all the math I could in primary and secondary education, for it paved the way for me to understand a great many concepts and ideas I would have struggled to grasp otherwise.
It would be very interesting to study how certain ideas spread within different cultures, where differences in language may influence how readily an idea is accepted. I've wondered, for example, about languages such as Spanish where every single noun has a gender, whether or not this influences peoples' view of gender roles in that society.
Mrityunjay Awasthy
Ed Schulte 50+
true that there is ten day now ....but TED is a renewable feature in our conversation which, by the bye, is residing under the "debate" column .:-) ....I have often wondered why wondered why TED wouldn't not be advanced enough in their premise of promoting to have a "conversation" column instead of just "idea" "question" and "debate" column.
Indeed quality of consciousness is the catalyst and quality of consciousness is the enhancer of any exchange of consciousness ...how often is it that in the circumstances were HUmans "exchange words" they end in a lower loc then starting because "quality" was left at home? and what is left is a bit taste ....or as the Sufi says...God is let with no choice but to go outside and talk to the rocks!!!"
But as your so rightly point out ...when concept/quality is input the T and E and D come alive and great things happen. And what is MOST wonderful, those who do not actively practice conscious quality see the results and seek to raise their own abilities in T and E and D !!
as you have nailed down here " Language evolves with need of transmitting awareness concepts" and shall we now point out ...not only , but spoked, written, and signed forms of language , and not only the older "form" of language-ing, that being song, but the oldest of all ..........Silence ....are all transmitters of consciousness towards higher quality within our Species. ...a
And is always yields lasting results when done with "Economy" ..Indeed the Art of Conversion is Economy ..just as it is with the T and the E and the D
We will continue this ....
Mrityunjay Awasthy
http://padis2.uniroma1.it:81/ojs/index.php/cogphil/index
Rhona Pavis 50+
Mrityunjay Awasthy
:)
Rhona Pavis 50+
Rhona Pavis 50+
Mrityunjay Awasthy
Ed Schulte 50+
and in many ways your "Insight" rising resonates with Blake's poem "The Fly" ( which I will post at the end)
But I very much appreciate your intro Subject. "Role of language" ..
living in Canada ( where culture of origin is not suppressed in favour of "melting pot" -ism) and working in Engineering ...(where many new Canadians gravitate to as a Profession) it has been a GREAT learning experience to stand back and observe the concept forming process as it evolves. Engineering is an ideal setting for this because all the developing ideas are kept / recorded / marked for change and correction etc etc all done in back and forth "commun-ication" . There is actually not a great deal of variation in the final Physical objective ( this is all controlled by standards and past proved "this works best" for the Canadian Construction methods / codes compliance / etc ) so the fun is in watching the many ways Cultural conditioning unspokenly influences concept forming then merges with others and then meets in a "consensus" totally unrelated with any Culture ...just plain old Applied Science.
Now the Blake Poem "The Fly"
Little fly,
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
has brushed away.
Am I not
a Fly like Thee?
Or, are you not
A Man, like me?
For I dance,
and drink, and sing
till some blind hand
doth touch my wing.
If thought is life,
and strength, and breath
And the want of thought
is death.
Then "I AM"
a happy fly,
If I live,
Or if i die.
Mrityunjay Awasthy
You observation added two valid points; Fear and maximum success rate. Now I am thinking if these are two evolutionary goodies added to our basket and same instincts could have contributed to limitation of language which is a great tool, but is too focused on humanitarian concerns, narrows our motive to kind of life we live, thus flies and mice are hard to comprehend. It is usually when one is in a situation where language fails (almost, for the purpose), one realize how cautiously Canadian Engineers work and what price development extorts of the subject.
Spectrum is bewilderingly wide and we are successfully hiding in a hairline fracture.
Ed Schulte 50+
yes indeed!!!
to your observation "we are successfully hiding in a hairline fracture " , Well chosen words.
I immediately heard Rumi's report of what he experienced when he popped his head out of the "hiding" for a brief moment
"I placed one foot on the wide plain
of death and some grand
immentisty sounded on the emptiness
I have felt nothing, ever,
like the wild wonder of that moment"
Rumi / Barkes Trans
But when it comes now to the bare essence...it is not the words or language itself but what quality of awareness, what level of consciousness those words emanate from , that will define their effect(s) staying with Rumi here to provide a demonstration of the old adage "words have meaning". But in Rumi's ( and Blake's of course) a meaning pointing to what is Beyond ALL "meaning(s)"
One who does what the Friend wants done
will never need a friend.
There's a bankruptcy that's pure gain.
The moon stays bright when it
doesn't avoid the night.
A rose's rarest essence
lives in the thorn.
From Soul of Rumi
by Coleman Barks
And so as to not imply EVER that just because it may appear that there is no future he kindly says...
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshipper, lover of leaving — it doesn't matter, Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vow a hundred times, Come, come again, come.
Mrityunjay Awasthy
Not only we are looking into "after" the language part but we have "before" the language "quality of awareness; a source of language now. Allow me to gather what we have here:
Concepts are formed(you added quality here)>Language evolves with need of transmitting awareness concepts(still concepts, quality of course helps, relative term though)> Language becomes highest potency of communicable ideas, awareness, a permanent(somewhat) casting mold, limited but focused and much without a utility in all stages of civilization is not casted.
So what I see here is a species discovers most economical ways to share, transmit, receive from whoever's concerned. There can be concepts common to many forms of life, or at least are shared with aid of analogies. Language, I once again would say, is most economical, mass based tool, and the is scope of new casts is limited, hence we have ART to compensate for much that we realize isn't fuller. This also covers beautiful Poetry of Rumi you have shared here, thanks a ton.
We have good eleven days if you its worth your time