- hiwe pius
- Lagos State
- Nigeria
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Of men and passion.
I often wonder if a man could be separated - in identity - from his passion? Is it possible to separate Donald Trump from the love of real estate? Nelson Mandela from freedom fighting? Sir Ken Robinson from education transformation? or You from ...?
Topics:
creativity destiny education passion
Ed Schulte 50+
Re:" the important element here is that we all have an understanding of the archetypal forces and stories that have shaped us."
And no apologies required…..TED is set up for a “hit and run” style …but those who will …will continue by use of common inventiveness….just like any mixed conversation atmosphere anywhere else.
Yes the knowing / not trying to ignore / the forces that have shaped us….it is amazing that the word “religion” once meant that “return to legion/ origin” That to was a James Hillman point.
LOC is “Level of Consciousness”…and I use it in the context/structure which Dr D. R. Hawkins has developed it …using kinesteology /muscle reaction / testing for testing the relative truth of any thing. You can find him on the web and it gives a good overview. He is a crusty old hoot and it takes a while for most people to adjust to his not BS straightforwardness ..but …as far as I am concerned he is spot on…and I use this method for checking any activity I enter into.
Re Uncle Joe ….yes considering his Love of Blake / Yates etc I would have thought “Hero with a thousand Faces” would have been shown there as it was on PBS in USA. And now more then ever!!! But on the other hand as Eckhart Tolle is saying ..it is time when the mythologies are no long required …..that we are now at a high enough personal and collective LOC that the “understanding of the archetypal forces and stories that have shaped us” can simply be entered into by contemplation. This agrees with Hawkins calibrations of many cultures ( LOC 403 to 405)
And this returns us to the lead topic of this Thread “Passion” The parallel to passion is that which the word “Will” points to…and this world is much maligned and conveniently missed used to justify gaining power over others. A vehicle of the EGO’s domain “Will Power” . The ancients ..including what is now called “Sufism” recognized “will” as the marriage of Psyche and Love…and yes you can see the Earliest of the Greek vers
Richard Ridings 10+
I don't have a PDf version- if that's what you mean. I bought it in Hardback the day it came out (bit of a luxury that for me- but I had to access the information and the inspiration) and dip into it every few weeks since for a recharge. It's out on loan at the moment- I'm gradually trying to make people aware of Sir ken's work and the paradigm shift he proposes. I think it is easily available on sites like amazon in paperback now.
We have since started home educating our second child - we did with our first as well but only after she had suffered too many years of unsupported Dyslexia, within the school system.
BTW if you have seen this RSA sketch with ken Robinson.... you are in for a treat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U&sns=em
hiwe pius
Richard Ridings 10+
I don't believe you can seperate the individual from their passion, not without changing the person in some way.
Ed Schulte 50+
received a tap to return re: “please explicate” the passion is an emotion and also “see Benjamin’s “
“Passion is a part of our personality. Yet we remain who we are whether our passions are present or not. It is a circular contradiction, but in a sense, that is what makes it true.”
Firstly, Benjamin’s Input is a confirmation of “passion is an emotion” (from my perspective) and I will attempt to “explicate” by referencing where he left off. Lets keep in consideration that TED is not the type of discussion group for this so I wont be surprised to receive one of their “ message removed- please adhere to TED guidelines” soon.
Firstly, we have two “personalities” …”temporary” and “permanent” and to give appropriate understanding of that a word picture of the “Nature and Structure of Consciousness” is required …..so the “circular contradiction” can become “circular /ever strengthening/ truth”.
Permanent personality is what we are/ were / and always will be / before entering HUman form. It is the “Seventh heaven” of the ancient Teachings NOT the confused one of current religions.
The temporary personality is made up of the sex lower heavens …( skipping all the intricate details here) ..of which three lowest ones are of importance to our conversation here. lowest = physical body/material universe …then Ego / intellect ….then Spirit/Psyche
As the ancients ( and a very few current) teaching confirm “Emotion is an emulsion of Intellect and Psyche.” Hence the note I posted “Passion is an Emotion” One could say the Passion is an Emotion with more “Spirit/Psyche then Ego / Intellect” and I, for one would not disagree.
((Closing note: this conversation is a parallel for the ancients teaching structure of Love …..love being ( starting from its lowest vibrational energy ) Eros, Phylos and Agape. Unfortunately “passion” in most of western culture, is only attributed to Eros activities.))
hiwe pius
Richard Ridings 10+
(I'm approaching this more from a Joseph Campbell view on Myth/belief/religion..... with a smattering of Jung)
When you say
"Unfortunately “passion” in most of western culture, is only attributed to Eros activities." Am I right in thinking that you mean this beyond the 3 Stages of Love? In effect it is to do with appetite, veniality and carnality. To paraphrase a well known hair commercial 'You'll have it "'cos you're worth it"? So that basic messages of self worth have been distorted into this "mantra" of acquisition?...... (By the way - I pretty much agree with you, if I've interpreted correctly .... although to my mind the "Occupy" movements are proof positive that "Agape" is making a comeback.)
Ed Schulte 50+
I do appa-preciate the concise tone of your reply ...which is to say that we , each of us are not here to agree but to share observation of the experience of life. Word agreement is always secondary to enthusiasm (imo) Yes "passion" was very much an attribute Uncle Joe had in spades and I very much appa-preciate his and Jung and James Hillmans commitment to resurrecting "Soul" is western society.
When I us the expression "ancients" I refer to what existed before "ways of being" where commandeered ( at the point of a sword in some cases) by religions and given name such as "Sufism" and "Christian-ism" Passion ( in my construct ) and lets acknowledge Compassion has Passion within it ....is very well summed up by the Poet Rumi words "that deep down lowliness that true Love brings." IOW Passion/Compassion is the effect of Agape love. So yes I am saying "beyond"
You have opened something here when you share the observation " the "Occupy" is proof positive that "Agape" is rising. I had to do a LOC resonance check and it came up in the 800's. so it is very truth-ful ...I am not one to protest, I come for the 60's bunch ....so tend to equate "protest" that way ...but your point explains why there is a very detectable (measurable) difference within the "occupy" energy field.
Thank You and as the Sufi say "Thank Us"
Richard Ridings 10+
Totally agree with your comments on enthousiasm .... possibly even more potent IRL (In Real life- an acronym I picked up working amongst some computer games developers earlier this year).
I'm dreadfully ignorant. Please tell me what a LOC resonance check is.
I suppose I was just a toddler for most of the 60's .... but I do think avowedly peaceful protest is the only way we are going to be able to restore some equilibrium in these desperate times, and is probably the safest way to confront the leaderships we have allowed to take hold in our western democracies. I think more and more people are waking up to the fact that "Democracy" has been comprehensively undermined with blatant 'croneyism' and revolving door policies between Governments/banks/big business.
So IMHO it really does help to have other 'ways of being' , other paths that lead us to a Bliss or "At One Ness"(As Uncle Joe so sweetly defined it*) and routes to a transcendental realm- even if some of it is only attainable by using what I call 'high-end' make believe, a suspension of disbelief as Hazlitt would have it, or a willingness to surrender to and immerse oneself in the 'great "what if'..... the important element here is that we all have an understanding of the archetypal forces and stories that have shaped us.
Many civilisations have known this and used it within their spiritual rituals/practices, but for me the most potent was probably the Ancient Greece of Aeschylus and Sophocles who centuries before 'Jesus"- championed 'forgiveness' over the revenge traditions. The festival of Dionysus had a much more profound purpose than the debauchery that is normally associated with it, namely to celebrate fecundity and rebirth and renewal.The drama's in particular sought to promote a Catharthis- profound pity at suffering and loss, through recognition and empathy followed by a cleansing and a hope for the future.
Richard Ridings 10+
* I am sometimes shocked at how little Joseph Campbell and his work is known here in the UK. Of course his influence is felt world wide with practioners such as George Lucas and James Cameron.
hiwe pius
Ed Schulte 50+
well your start a topic re "Passion" is a passionate one and it does require care in approach. Especially one such as myself ,,being exposed to Western culture's materialism ...iow one where all attitudes are equated to $$ and or power over others.
I wanted to continue and respond to Richard here as well so with post a new entry at the top.
Debra Smith 200+
Juliette Zahn 50+
This covers all grounds........................................................A world of applauds to you Debra!!
hiwe pius
Juliette Zahn 50+
hiwe pius
Juliette Zahn 50+
Thanks. You are right.. And none of it is worth anything without justice and kindness. What are your passions about??
hiwe pius
Juliette Zahn 50+
So this means your passion is being an owner or manager of a business enterprise who makes money through risk and initiative of ideas in Africa ??
hiwe pius
Ed Schulte 50+
And there cannot be .....Thought without some emotion within it.........And there cannot be .... Emotion without some thought with in.
hiwe pius
hiwe pius
Benjamin Jones
hiwe pius
Benjamin Jones
hiwe pius
Benjamin Jones
I think as a general rule, in education, we are doing kids an injustice. We squander the talents that they already posess, we certainly aren't fair about it, and when we try to be fair, we confuse equality with sameness. We think that to be fair every kid needs the same amout of homework, be at the same reading level, have the same teachers, and think in the same way. To a degree, these things are quite amiable, but in reality, we tend to get children to conform to a standard, in a way trying to force them to be robots.
This brings up all sorts of ethical delemas, and on the flip side, when we try to aknowledge diversity, we begin to stereotype, and categorize students based on race, income, demographics, and whether they are "intelligent" or "not."
I am hoping to be able to find the balance of all these things. The balance of justice and mercy, equality, and diversity, morality and the law, formal education and experience, creativity and logic, passion and peace.
I have found, that despite what mathematicians or scientists may say, that not everything can be explained throught math or science. There is a need for something more, an intuitive, artstic sense, which can counteract math and science, and explain what they can't. We still have theroms because we can never know for certain, and yet we continue to use them because our intuition tells us to do so. We hold that 1+1=2 becuase not only does it make sense logically, but it feels right intuitively. However, I feel that society has lost sight of the intuition, and it is most readily seen and remidied through education.
hiwe pius
Secondly...all these you have stated that you are passionate about are just semantics or format of a concept or idea that you are passionate about.
Thirdly...i took my time to digest every scintilla of an alphabet in your write up and i have to tell u this.
you are passionate about: THE FUTURE, POTENTIALS AND THESE ARE SOME OF A TOTAL OR THE SUM TOTAL OF YOUR PASSION ARE CHILDREN(to be certain of what i have just commented try and post your comment and mine for a statistical check on TED)
Richard Ridings 10+
As regards "Intuition"- Karen Armstrong who won the TED prize(I think the year after Sir Ken) makes the point in the introduction to one of her books that the Greeks had no problem with our essentially dual nature. That we love to find out how things work, and endeavour to reduce these to a set of empirical rules - LYCOS, and then the part that you can't explain quite so easily the stories, the myths, the superstitions and intuitions that also help to orient us in the world. MYTHOS. Since the Enlightenment we have been in the thrall of Science as the only answer , married with a steadily increasing notion of the individual, and an enshrining of the idea of personal choice, liberty etc(Paradoxically taken to it's logical extreme this may be the enemy of compassion........ everybody 'living an "ilife"... increasingingly detached from the concerns of others).
To further complicate the equation our brains have 3 layers of evolution to them. Often our 6th sense, when our "hackles" rise, bypasses our cerebral and limbic systems and uses the more 'reptilian' brain stem. "Fear" for instance, can make apparently civilized people act in most uncivilized ways. "Instinct Leads to it".
Matthieu Miossec 100+
Lawrence Burns
Naturally a person's job or passion is a facet of that identity but focusing on this to the exclusion of all other areas is a fast ticket to an unbalanced and sometimes depressing life.
hiwe pius
Richard Ridings 10+
I found the following video explaining the basic principles very helpful;-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCR5vkXoeSg&feature=player_embedded
hiwe pius
Matthieu Miossec 100+
hiwe pius
Matthieu Miossec 100+
hiwe pius
Matthieu Miossec 100+
hiwe pius