- Linda Hesthag Ellwein
- Brooklyn, NY
- United States
Communications, Change, and Photography, Oikonomia, Inc.
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What makes a good conversation? What draws you in and engages you? Let's build TED-capacity by sharing what we're learning with each other.
Conversations are subjective. Some pull us in, others glaze us over. Truth is, they are are important to our lives. A conversation might be a footing to the foundation of a life-changing relationship, or leads us on a turn that changes our course. In order to strengthen our own conversation skills, and encourage others, can we discuss what works - and doesn't? What engages you enough to comment, or continue in the dialogue? What tips would you give others to help them be better conversationalists? What mistakes have you made? When do you get the most from a conversation?
It's often been said 'it's not what you say, but how you say it," how does this translate to online conversations for you? How can we make it easier for non-English speaking members?
Joining a TED conversation can sometimes be intimidating. For some, it takes courage and vulnerability. What can you say to encourage those sitting on the sidelines? Or to those who don't think they have the right thing to say? Do you read conversations but never comment? Why not? Has your world view ever changed, or paradigm shifted?
How about building TED-capacity by offering what you know, what you've learned, even what you struggle with to raise the bar for conversations and to be inclusive to those thinking about jumping in?
Denis Fitzpatrick
I haven't seen you around much... I hope everything is ok in your world... it is in mine ... so drop by, if you drop in...k?
Sincerely,
D.
Linda Hesthag Ellwein 50+
How's life? You're right...I haven't been around much lately. It's such a busy time of year.
Hope you're well. So glad to see you're still here engaging in conversations!
Denis Fitzpatrick
I still have lots to learn... but I am certainly starting to feel more at home here... despite the viewing gallery ! Ha!
I am so glad you are ok ... its strange how a few brief interactions can evoke concern ... maybe there's hope for this form of communication after all !
Although I gotta say, I was ready to pack it in for a bad trip on a number of occassions... as you well know !
Anyway... its good to see that you are back !
You missed out on a few good fights, that could have used your tactful interventions. Actually, the whole thing amuses me at times... including my own reactions... so this time... stay out of it ! OK... people like you ruin a perfectly good fight... Ha !
Talk to you again soon !
D.
Linda Hesthag Ellwein 50+
Well, as I've said before, you're a welcome addition to this community and I look forward to more conversations over time.
Denis Fitzpatrick
More often than not, I find that most fights are fought on faulty grounds... unacknowledged assumptons, mis-interpretations, paradyme protectionism etc.
And Thank you Linda... your Welcome was very encouraging to me ...
Still learnin' the Ropes !
D.
Linda Hesthag Ellwein 50+
J Steele
Phillip Beaver 10+
So, is your only purpose to learn from the other party?
Thanks,
Phil
Elyzabeth Tjoeng
Phillip Beaver 10+
Does being opne-minded mean accepting the new idea? Or can it be considering it with integrity then showing why it does not work? If so, where does the responsibility for "good conversation" lie--with the presenter or with the hearer?
Sue Morris
Phillip Beaver 10+
Vinanti Castellarin
So recently, I started VOICES OF WOMEN WORLDWIDE at http://voicesofwomenworldwide-vowwtv.ning.com and now I am conversing wth over 500+ members from all over the world ... The first secret of success is showing genuine concern for "the other" ... who need to be listened to ... to tell their stories ... frankly and without hesitation ...
What drew the members to the website was VOICES OF WOMEN WORLDWIDE's mission was "promoting voices of the voiceless ... women, young girls and children, and even men ... who want to tell their stories ... to anyone who will listen ...
That's why TED Conversations are so popular ... there are room full of people waiting to listen to heart rendering stories ...
John Freestone 10+
I hastily interpreted the removal of my proposal as expressing a view at TED that matters of service provision were not proper subjects for mere users. I'm pleased if that isn't the case, although I still see that action as rather pointless. If developers don't see it, ok, no particular harm would be done. We can still discuss what we like or don't like about forum softwares, and if something important comes out of it, someone can holler in the right direction, I would have thought. Anyway, thanks for posting to clear that up. It's much appreciated.
Sue Morris
Thomas Mrak
When someone speaks and moves, you can feel their spark!
Phillip Beaver 10+
Phil
Henrik Martenzon
And you have an important point here: one should engage enough to give something back from the other person, hence a meaningful dialogue.
"I think people should concentrate more on how can they efficiently and effectively communicate with each other, instead of drawing a conlusion merely. That's why sometimes gestures, tones, emotions and some other ways to express ideas are more effective to deal with a conversation than the ideas themselves."
This breeds problems for me, which I haven't solved yet. Maybe you can enlighten me. When speeches is given, the aim is often political and they try to get somewhat of a message across. This message can be a vague concept as hope. Obama offered Hope. Not many people would draw loads of detailed conclusions from his speeches. They were good, but too rhetorical to assess any valuable meaning. It was to give hope and unite the listeners. Effective I must say. But doing this in a conversation is odd. If I want to sell an idea, I prefer the idea to be really worth selling, not valued because of me as a sales person. And yet this is happening all the time. People get convinced by the touch of rhetoric.
Don't get me wrong, rhetoric is important. But its paradoxal.
Libbey Koppinger
I'd say there are key elements to consider when engaging on TED (and in general)
1. Stay on topic.
2. Watch your language & your spelling.
Vulgarity is the quickest way to loose sight of meaning in professional forums. Recent studies show people who read commentary and discover typos invest less belief in it's value.
3. Be thick skinned and non-reactive.
Know that anyone who attacks the comments, beliefs, experiences of another member because of opposing viewpoints, or to correct an inaccuracy in a condescending manner, is not worth your worry. Focus on people and conversation that is welcoming of all viewpoints.
4. Enjoy.
This is a great place to learn. Take the pressure off yourself and comment with questions certainly, post thoughtful and relative links - don't worry about being an expert. Know your contributions are valued by the majority.
5. Pass it on!
Talk about TED! Share the site via twitter & facebook. Make it your goal to bring people in, let them know what's here. These are truly, ideas (and so much more) worth sharing.
Phillip Beaver 10+
1. Off topic should flow a little. If value surfaces, start a new Conversation.
2. I usually write in Microsoft word for spell check and arrangement then copy to TED.
3. As world leaders, TEDsters should be intolerant when intolerance is appropriate.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Juliette Zahn 50+
Phillip Beaver 10+
http://www.ted.com/conversations/5444/for_the_ted_community_tolera.html
Not one participating TEDster approved of tolerance.
A breackthrough comment was "Beyond respect there's appreciation."
Libbey Koppinger
1. Absolutely. Better said than me - I like it your preference here and your clarity! Agreed :)
2. Aha! Great tip! (why didn't I think of that?! LOL)
3. Again - Better said by you - I think our meaning is actually the very similar*.
*I was referring to the language or method by which TEDsters react.
I think no matter what, it's critical to be composed. For example - being intolerant of an injustice - certainly. When we feel passionate about something, and meet opposing points of view that express themselves in an indignified manner - it can be tough not to fall to the same level in terms of how we answer rude commentary for instance. Remaining civil & on-point, holding a high standard of communication - those are the practices I was thinking of. But I see where I could've been clearer for certain!
Thanks so much! I learned much from your three precisely put comments! Nice! :)
Phillip Beaver 10+
Thank you for your kind thoughts.
Phil
Denis Fitzpatrick
Ed Schulte 50+
....................................................and the stillness of Presence...in the space between 'words'
Phillip Beaver 10+
Of course, I cannot converse with RWE and doubt I understand his essay.
Henrik Martenzon
Another one is the one I myself use during conversations; I listen to every word and creates a network, much like a tree, of every sentences to do my in understanding what the other is telling me. I twist and turn their words to make sure I understand them fully. Its a technique from Aristoteles syllogisms and scientific reasoning.
Through the latter I sometimes achieve an AHA moment! Much like Eureka during a great conversation. This gives me chills and lots of new energy. Thats a good conversation for me. The topics at subject are mainly something new, learned, exciting, depicted through good storytelling.
heather Zhao
I don't really understand your second point. Recently I read the book the History of Western Phiolosophy by Russel, and I was quite interested in the syllogisms from Aristotle. However how do you transfer that logic into the conversation skills? Just wondering...
Henrik Martenzon
I analyze every word you say when were engaging something interesting. What words, what order and does the conclusion follow from logical premises? The principles of syllogisms has helped me quite a lot when listening to politicians and sales people etc. Really useful tool.
However, for some people the conversation itself, as long as its "running", seem to be the only important thing. What´s been said during this, is second to the "feeling" it creates for the listener, or both parties. This to me is incredible fascinating and weird, since my goal is to arrive at some interesting conclusion. This does not seem to be innate for all people.
heather Zhao
Logical tools are indeed very useful when handling with academic or professional conversations, especially when complicated topics are involved. Sometime when I am trying to get some interesting inference from a conversation, I would ask myself several questions: What is the implict assumption in his logical reasoning? Whether his first sentence is a necessary premise or a sufficient premise to the conclusion? Is there any logical flaw in his reasoning? What kind of inferences can I know for sure from his words?
While since you mention the "normal conversation", I think the word "conversation" has the nature of communication between two people. The more important thing is that if you successfully receive certain information, you are supposed to reflect and give back some other useful information to the other side. That's the core for the smooth progress of a conversation.
In other words, during engaged in a conversation, I think people should concentrate more on how can they efficiently and effectively communicate with each other, instead of drawing a conlusion merely. That's why sometimes gestures, tones, emotions and some other ways to express ideas are more effective to deal with a conversation than the ideas themselves.
John Freestone 10+
But what I like in retrospect and what I like at the time can be different things. One big paradigm change for me came in a discussion that was infuriating and painful. Later I realised it was a great help to me.
I was directed to this thread when I enquired about improving the forum software - maybe using a common one like vBulletin. I find the reply system here confusing.
I don't understand why TED threads are so much better natured than many forums. The moderation seems almost nil, yet I very rarely see name-calling, and I've never seen any flame war at all. Is that because nobody can keep track of the replies?! Maybe it's a partly unconsious mirroring of the lofty aims - maybe we feel ashamed here if we imagine misbehaving, because there is so much about cooperation and building good social futures at TED. Or do the moderators just pounce in the dead of night and disappear the baddies? Or maybe I've missed the flame wars.
I think the most underrated skill in conversing is "active listening" - checking what the other means as best you can and trying to understand and empathise. I fail big time at it myself when the subject is something I'm passionate about, and I try to persuade the other of my point of view instead. I do sometimes write the most attrocious things. The other best tip, therefore, is to use your patience and the delete key. Eventually I'm usually just left with something that fits my reality without, I hope, being deliberately hurtful because I'm hacked off.
Then again, I sometimes wonder if we're too concerned about offending people. I enjoy another forum where it's like a zoo, and it's very refreshing. But I guess everyone knows what to expect there. It's a social context thing.
Linda Hesthag Ellwein 50+
I agree wholeheartedly in regards to active listening. I often wonder if it's a developed skill or an intuitive one..or perhaps it's both. What I know for sure is not everyone has it. It takes seeing past the words, doesn't it? Actually feeling into the conversation, for lack of a better word. I'm often struck by the living dynamics of an online conversation, without body language to support it. It's only when we're genuinely engaged we experience the true dynamics of it. It carries an energy of its own, which is often lost in translation when someone comes upon it later. Not always the case, but often.
I think building social futures is a key component to TED conversations, framed by a collective thoughtfulness inherent to being part of this community.
John Freestone 10+
This does feel like a great community, both for the thoughtfulness you mention and because it's built around such a wonderful set of talks by so many amazing thinkers and doers. I'm getting a thirst for learning again, and the world is full of such awe-inspiring facts and ideas - there's not enough time to watch and read and discuss all the things I want to.
Christina Day
Debra Smith 200+
Karina Eisner 10+
Linda Hesthag Ellwein 50+
Karina Eisner 10+
I'd would take away the "delete comment" option. It prunes good, flowing conversations leaving them cripple.
Guys, think before you post, then live with the consequences. But let us enjoy a good conversation.
Interactions can be serious, funny, informative, challenging, provocative, and wrong. It is all good!
What is not good, is to find a truncated conversation, with only one side of the dialogue. It is like leaving the TEDster speaking to the hand.
Phillip Beaver 10+
I already hastily castigated a fellow TEDster’s post, slept on it, then issued an apology. I considered deleting my offense, but preserved it to clarify why I was apologizing and remind me not to become frustrated again.
Your concerns prompt me about another issue. Some of my ideas are controversial. My passion is to influence people to appreciate association beyond religion and politics without foregoing their religious preferences and political preferences. The larger association: cooperative quest for republican--rule of law--governance by the governed. The field of concerns is large, and it is typical for one comment to motivate me to respond. The resulting thread can sometimes be interpreted by TED Admin as off topic. I have only one concern with that: creative dialogue, especially any part that is on topic, gets lost to TEDsters. It’s probably in the system somewhere.
An alternative is to introduce a notice, for example, "This dialogue wandered off topic." Then provide a "button" which could be clicked to that dialogue.
Also, most people progress on psychological paths. There are times when they would use profanity or behave with other offenses--destructive. I think the record of their progress from the will to use profanity/offense is a wonderful part of their story and should be accommodated to preserve the creative contributions. Thus, I suggest a different message, "This dialogue contains profanity/offense," and another "button" to allow the reader to go there.
These two changes would require more TED memory and creative programming, but administrative decisions might be less burdensome. I cannot imagine the pressure some TED Admin personnel may feel as they delete dialogue. I think it is a difficult decision and appreciate people who accept the role.
Phil
Karina Eisner 10+
Glad you would vote for taking away the "delete comments" button.
In your reply you seem to indicate that TED "curates" every conversation, deleting those portions that are off topic. Is this correct or did I missread what you said?
I find it difficult to believe that any employee is devoted to read every single entry in order to do this... If that's the case, I probably want the job, as I spend already much more time than I should in these conversations -it is always great to be paid to do something we love :-)
Phillip Beaver 10+
I'm OK with that, because TED Admin controls they way they have decided to control. However, I am always looking for improvement.
I have the impression that eveyrthing gets screened, but TED may have software that looks for particular words that indicate deviation and triggers a reading. I don't know.
Phil
Pocahontas Water
1. Care-
2. Show interest and think about the other one - not about yourself
3. This conversation is the most important thing that you have to do right now. Otherwise, apologize and leave.
Richard Wil45
Linda Hesthag Ellwein 50+
John Freestone 10+
I posted a proposal to change the forum software as my VERY FIRST TED discussion last week, thinking I'd start with a light issue before going on to more serious things, and it was deleted! I was invited instead to discuss that in this discussion and also send my suggestions in on the contact form. Why they thought it inappropriate for us to discuss that in public under its own title I don't know, but I felt pretty put out. What makes for a good discussion - being able to start one. :((
Linda Hesthag Ellwein 50+
I think they're constantly evolving and developing what works best...just my observation and guess. TED Conversations is relatively new and dynamic. I'm fairly certain your post was not deleted for inappropriateness, but because requests for system improvements are sent directly to the people working on those things. I'm sure it was taken very seriously.
The last thing they'd want is for you to feel put out. As a host, I know TED encourages similarly themed conversations to merge when running simultaneously...to engage the most people and generate the most ideas - while building community. This conversation is focused on engaging others and raising the bar. Your suggestion certainly fits perfectly! Thank you for posting it.
I hope you post something again very soon - and go for what really speaks to you. It's always a little unsettling when we post our first conversation...I still get nervous:) I'm sure it was interpreted as a technical recommendation - not a bad question or idea! Knowing TED staff, your recommendation might be in a queue already, either inspiring or validating what they are working on. All I know for sure is I'm looking forward to your next question!
TED 10+
We appreciate your contribution and ideas to improve TED Conversations platform!
We are aware of the limited response cascade and working on it. Regarding your feature request conversation -- removing doesn't mean we are banning it. We value your feedback and suggestion and want to make sure it reaches the right place! Unlike the admins and moderators, our developers don't check every conversation posted. Therefore, submitting your idea to improve TED.com pages through the contact form will ensure that your request reaches the proper destination! We assure you, we read every one of the contact form submissions!
Instead of just getting all the attention to ourselves, we'd love TED Conversations platform to focus on the discussion of ideas, questions and debates of other issues that community likes to explore.
You can also email any feedback directly to us at conversations@ted.com
Thank You Very Much,
TED Conversations team,
conversations@ted.com
bulbul mankani
I love conversations where people think about what they say, or deeply feel about what they say... there is an energy in such conversations that is special.
Intelligence, warmth, humour are big draws.
Being a good listener is also key to a good conversation- this skill is really getting rare with people's time poverty!
Linda Hesthag Ellwein 50+
vinay kallat
The general reason i feel most ppl dont comment iswhen the answer to any of below question is "YES" and you start asking yourself the same questions.
"Would my opinion mean anything?Am I making any sense?Would I embarrase myself by commenting?
What can you say to encourage those sitting on the sidelines? Or to those who don't think they have the right thing to say?
1.The first thing I would like to say here is I have seen (although little but still) People making fun mockery about others views. I think that is one of the main reason if someone feels not to share his view especially if it’s against most of the people's opinion.
2. Can encourage Youngsters to participate more if possible via media and talking about things that usually a teenager can connect to. For instance why they like to spend time in virtual world rather than real world. Which I think is already a Topic in TEDX. But extending that topics to Face book and Tweeter where usually you would find teenagers this days and attracting them to Contribute in TEDX.Like a application of game in facebook.. Very hard but not impossible to attract youngsters.
3.I would like to tell all who feel like commenting but stop themselves thinking it might be not good enough is" The question is not whether your comments are good enough or not .It's whether others are good enough to understand it and contribute constructively to what you have to say. So it really does not matter if it sounds right or not; just go ahead and have a say. Your time on earth is limited so make it count not let embarrassment take the better of out you.
vinay kallat
1.I might have experienced the same.So instantly feel connected to a point made by someone else based on my prior experience.You feel like "Oh ye"s thats so true but no one actually realized it or pointed it out before that.
2.Comment that is just opposite to what I have experienced in my personal life.I feel like knowin what the person might have experienced to feel that way.
3,Replies from other TEDster's do help to keep you active. You feel someone is listening.
4.Area of Interest. Topics Like gamming,teaching,Clutural difference,difference of bringing up in various countries n so on,
What makes a good conversation?
At the end of the day if you feel content, satisfied and learn something new,Even if its humility i feel like its one of the best conversations I had.
Outside Tedx, the best conversation I had was with my long lost school friend.We hardly spoke for 5 minutes but felt like the best conversation I had with anyone for ages.
Learnin from TED's.
Other's points and opinions are as vauable as u feel yours; even when you feel they are wrong.I strongly belive we comment not on what is right but rather what we have experienced.Becuse ppl come from different race and bringing up; they might have experienced differently.So while they are commenting they are actually sharing their personal experience with you which might help us much more when we move to their place and culture and relate it much better.
Carl LIndgren 500+
Phillip Beaver 10+
William Ury’s talk seems to focus on moral dualisms and antidotes for evil: tourism for terrorism; hospitality for hostility. Engage a stranger in conversation and listen to him. It isn’t easy, because the stranger also listens. Otherwise, one side is passive, defensive, or aggressive. Perhaps Ury describes a case of 1+1=3: appreciative “no” plus appreciative “yes” equals a greater whole. Otherwise, I do not understand the “third side,” the “us.”
Ury seemingly tries to apply the Yin Yang concept--the wholeness or balance of natural opposites: female and male; cold and hot. Female and male may form an androgynous pair; sympathetic opposites form the whole. Yin Yang is not about moral opposites, good and evil. Yin Yang opposites are complimentary, not adversarial. It’s difficult for me to fit terrorism in this model. Help me understand.
But 1+1=3 seems to apply to religion. Within Christianity, one view of 14 New Testament references to “election,” regards membership in the invisible church. See www.hccentral.com/delect.html . People are predestined for either salvation--membership in the invisible church--or reprobation. This notion is complimented in John 6:35-40, with the key thought by Jesus: “. . . this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me . . .” People in salvation could appreciate people in reprobation and vice versa and mutually recognize that they are Yin Yang--necessary to the whole.
Or consider a more common natural pair: theists and atheists. As a person who is neither theist nor atheist but neutral, it seems to me I represent a natural “third side.”
Once again, I appreciate the suggestion that we listen to this talk; it seems profound.
Phil
Debra Smith 200+
Linda Hesthag Ellwein 50+
Phillip Beaver 10+
Phil
Phillip Beaver 10+
If you feel you can contribute, write with humility, empathy, clarity, brevity, and integrity. Let your witness speak for itself, and realize neither you nor the other TEDster represents more than opinion, preference, or perception. Reality marches on regardless of particular thought. Therefore, there is no reason to feel either guilty, aggressive, or in charge of the outcome of a conversation.
These are ideas I am trying to learn after a couple weeks participation, and I would appreciate criticism.
Linda, I appreciate the challenge of trying to answer your question, this soon into my TED experience; also the talks you suggested. My rating regarding helpfulness toward understanding your purpose is Brown (courage to express yourself), Ury (have expressed on TED that I am on the “third side” among theists and atheists), Lesser (lunched with a religious person last week), Ryan (know a little Greek and relate to the importance of preserving Greek thought) , Treasure (I’ll add listening to breathing exercises), Pagel (all but the conclusion), and Haidt (think his theory is incomplete; for example, viability is part of the human moral).
Phil
Juliette Zahn 50+
Phillip Beaver 10+
Linda, for the past fifteen years, as a writer, I have carefully noted the person who enlightened me. For example, in my conversation about the golden rule, I credited Hugh Finklea with "egocentric," which describes so well the problem I perceive with the rule.
In my TED conversations, I now reference help from TEDsters, for example, "thanks Andrea," confident Andrea will recognize her contribution. However, I wish TED could detect my appreciation and notify Andrea. I would have to use her complete, correct TED name, but that is not a problem. For programing difficulty, maybe this should be a low priority idea, but for TED building purposes perhaps it should be high.
Phil
Linda Hesthag Ellwein 50+
Linda Hesthag Ellwein 50+
Jorge Contreras
Rajib Ahmed
The most important thing in good conversations is honesty, mutual honor and respect for opinions and compatibility of personalities and taste. And it also has to be free from any vested interests and covert intentions.