Duck Coach

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Do you believe in Horoscopes and Tarot Cards? Do you think Astrology is useful for everyday life?

Many people are into their daily horoscopes - some take it serious, some use it just as entertainment. What is your take on this issue?

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    Oct 25 2011: No I don't believe in any of that and no, I do not find it useful. However, some people find comfort and hope in doing so and, unfortunately, many swindlers take advantage of that, so I'm sure they find it rather useful when it comes to making money from vulnerable and ignorant people.
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      Oct 25 2011: Astrology and Tarot isn't only associated with palm reading.

      Personally, I'm very much into astrology, or at least my zodiac sign. I think it gives me things to consider and think about as it pertains to my behavior. Not everything is true, and not everything is false. I'm aware of what applies to me when I see it and I appreciate the information all together. Sometimes it's fun and sometimes it can be a path for reflection.

      I highly doubt that's vulnerable or ignorant.
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        Oct 25 2011: You seem to have taken offence by my comment and I am truly sorry for that.

        I never implied Astrology or Tarot are only associated with palm reading.

        Although I do not share it, I place no judgement on yours or anybody's choice of fun or path for reflection. The fact that vulnerable and ignorant people are being ripped off by swindlers in this ambit is just a fact, and doesn't mean that everyone who believes in Astrology or Tarot is vulnerable, however, in my eyes, and with all respect, I do believe them to be ignorant and I repeat that, by no means, I say this in a derogatory way. At the end of day it's just a matter of opinion, the fact that one believes in 'X' does not make 'X' real nor truthful, and that goes both ways.
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      Oct 26 2011: Hellena maybe astrology and tarot is not usefull for some people, but maybe is beautifull....the clue word is "believe"....for science is "knowing".....the episteme is different but is a derivation from ancient myths and magic... magic is trasformation........Nunca antes ha habido tanta gente que comprenda tan poco sobre tanto.....
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        Oct 27 2011: Jaime, it's a big world full of maybes...who is right? Who is wrong? Does it matter? I am not here to be righteous; I am happy acknowledging and admiring the beauty that unfolds when choosing not to believe in things that lack fundament.

        I completely disagree with your opinion of what the core of science is. Science is the opposite of knowing, science, amongst many other things, is questioning, researching, adjusting its views; never claiming to know for the sake of it, which is what fixed beliefs do.

        I am actually going to adjust my statement "...everyone who believes in Astrology and Tarot is ignorant"...and change it to "Some of the people who believe in Astrology and Tarot are ignorant, by the simple fact that they are oblivious to the evidence that contradicts their belief, and some people are ignorers, they know about the evidence that contradicts their belief just simply chose to ignore it". And that's fine by me; the world would be a very boring place if we all shared the same opinions, and it would be a better place if we didn't disrespect nor judge those of different opinion to our own.
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          Oct 27 2011: You have the right to disagree...I respect your opinion....maybe you are right..maybe wrong...maybe???
        • Nov 3 2011: Hello Helena,

          Read your comment and the correction which I welcome. I am a skeptic of all belief systems and was a strong skeptic of astrology too untill I studied it myself. Astrology in particular (as I know the subject) is based on strong fundamentals which stand true on replication of results each time you apply them. It is pure maths and astronomy (about a limited set of stars and planets and sensitive points). So far in my journey to improve myself in this field I have never been disappointed. It is also a result continuous questions, researches, observations and then a sublimation of thoughts after one has applied all this with a lot of introspection.
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        Oct 27 2011: Maybe...I don't think it matters, so long as we all find some kind of beauty somewhere. You have the same right to disagree and thank you for your respect. I have great respect for your opinion too, in fact, you know I love conversing with you...and we don't always disagree. :-)
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          Oct 27 2011: Vale pasanaa'......viene un tintorro y salud! Gracias
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        Oct 28 2011: Aquí estoy con un Rioja...a tu salud!
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    Oct 25 2011: I think this is nonsense. It is no more useful than archaic religious institutions.

    Worse, I think purveyors of nonsense like this do a great dis-service to the under-appreciated power of the intuition in human beings.
    As Steve Jobs said, "Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary."

    Why do people lspend so much time looking outward for something that lies within them? Why all this clamoring for religion, tarot cards, astrology, etc.? That's the easy way out - and it doesn't take you where you wanted to go in the first place.
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      Oct 26 2011: A searcher often needs a guide. There are all too few guides in this day and age - mostly because they can't be defined, observed and reproduced in a controlled environment..
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        Oct 26 2011: I hear you...

        I am referring, though, to those who would lead you to think they can guide you but in reality are "in the business" of guiding lost souls, etc. The moment "guidance" is institutionalized it is diminished, in my opinion. That's how elusive the search is...

        Yes, there are those we meet along our way who help guide us to the next place, but I avoid the "roadside stands" along the way that make promises to me, even though they don't know me.

        David Whyte is a guide for me. Here is an excerpt from an old Native American elder story/poem he uses to help enlighten:


        Stand still. The trees ahead and the bushes beside you
        Are not lost.
        Wherever you are is called Here,
        And you must treat it as a powerful stranger,
        Must ask permission to know it and be known.
        The forest breathes. Listen. It answers,

        No two trees are the same to Raven.
        No two branches are the same to Wren.
        If what a tree or a bush does is lost on you,
        You are surely lost. Stand still.
        The forest knows where you are. You must let it find you.
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    Oct 26 2011: Everything does serve a purpose.
    With astrology, tarot cards and other ways of divination there's a lot of mumble jumble going on but even those can help some people. They can an invitation for introspection or affirmation that someone needs at one or other moment.
    Often it aren't the things that are used that give insights but they serve only a point of focus while the information is coming from within.
    Yet there are some astounding things in the world which of course never can be proofed by anyone. This is foremost due to their personal character. They are only proof for the one concerned with it.
    By example the NAADI which are messages written on palm leaves many centuries ago. They reveal for the one that asks for it an exact description of that person and more. On the link below you find the testimony of someone.

    Those things are amazing and let us wonder but there's so much more and often most people doesn't recognize it even as they see it. It only shows that everything can be known and can be known, right out of the blue clear air.
    • Nov 3 2011: I agree with your views after doubting all these years when I finally embarked on learning it myself I was surprised how true it is. These days I keep surprising myself each time someone comes to me for a consultation. And as a principle I do not charge any money or favour for doing this as i feel it is a privilege to know this Supra Science. Besides, not charging any money also gives me the freedom of refusing or taking my own time to do as and when I have time for it. And at no point am I saying that I am completely right, but given the complexity of life and world, we need to understand that it is a way of understanding this giant clockwork of God and how well are we as students of this great knowledge able to do it depends on our capabilities and does not reflect flaws in this system (just like all medical students do not become good doctors). And to say that it is completely based on rules and fundamentals which give us replicable results every time they are applied. Is it not what the critics ask - Are these rules replicable? Yes They are. and all those who are expressing doubts either have not experienced it first hand or have not read sufficient enough on the subject. Remember, such knowledge is bound to have suffered changes in the hands of those who want to deceive others and make money.
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    Oct 25 2011: I really fail to see how this can really relate to peoples lives.

    If it is used for fun then so be it.

    But the real problem arises when people really take this stuff seriously in our modern age and it affects other peoples lives. Astrology was used during ancient times for a variety of reasons. It had a suitable purpose back then (that is why we know about the winter solstice, etc).

    I really do not think astrology or horoscopes are a good source for developing values. I'm sure there are people on here that will take this stuff seriously and I offer my apologies but at the same time what does Jupiter being in retrograde have anything to do with everyday issues on planet earth aside from, perhaps gravitational shifts (I'm not even sure if that even occurs)?

    For those who do take it seriously what does it have to offer to the overall well-being of the biotic communities on the planet? Individual well-being is important, and perhaps knowing that you'll find your soul mate during the summer solstice is as well but I think there are bigger issues that going on, instead of being concerned about how your day is going to pan out based upon the alignment of the stars.
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    Oct 25 2011: controlled studies are realted to fixed parameters.
    fixed parameters are common sense opinions.
    opinions can. change.
    there is no control, no fixed anything.
    panta rhei
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    Oct 25 2011: for me, horoscope is a kind of entertainment. I don't believe in any of the theories about it even sometimes its saying or reasoning sounds greatly related to my real condictions. However I think it's just a speculation from some people who make a living on it or simply wanna have fun through it.well,I do have a friend who tries to explain everything using astrology when it comes to some personal problems.And she's always firm in that one's character has something to do with the horoscope.she's now playing computer next to me and maybe I can ask her for some
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    Nov 6 2011: Hey Duke....I design my own tarot cards, and as you can guess I read it for myself following my own sistem...that changes every time.........amazing....realy work¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡

    Some friends ask me for a sample, but I respond ....¡ your own cards.¡¡¡


  • Nov 3 2011: Belonging to Science stream from my school days I have developed a strong sense of testing everything and every idea on various parameters (where ever applicable) and only then believing / absorbing it. So naturally when I came face to face with many instances where the astrologer was able to tell me a lot many things about my temperament, life, events, etc. just by glancing at my horoscope I was curious. Initially brushing it aside that it may be just by chance or one off event I was surprised on many occasions by other astrologers. Then there came a time when I started meeting people who were technically very qualified and learning or learned in astrology. I always had a belief (still have) - WHAT ONE MAN CAN LEARN OTHER CAN LEARN TOO. So I started learning it myself and after reading many books myself, enrolled in a school for a formal course in it. Even as a student I was initially ever doubting on every step and I will hurry back from my classes to calculate and make horoscopes of people I knew very well. And I would apply the rules I had learnt to test if they were true. To my surprise I could see them fitting the scientific proof of testing and replication of fundamentals. It was a high of sorts for me when I had success in getting to know and tell quite a few things about individuals I had never known, their drives, energies and priorities in life, the probable professions they were in and their life pattern. Today I keep practicing this new passion of mine as and when time permits after my busy schedule with work. Having said all this, beware of quacks and shady people making money and fooling people in the garb of astrology and other such things. Again, don't blame medical science for a doctor's incompetence, the same way do not blame this SUPRA SCIENCE (thats what I call it) because of some cheats and bad people. Before commenting on any subject, take time to read and know about it. Hope this helps some who are curious to know the truth.
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    Oct 31 2011: I am a sceptic too but one thing I did learn in a psychology course called 'Experiential Psychology' is that things like this can be used to make people think about their lives in new ways. For example, the I ching is a Chinese system like this but the images that are used on the cards themselves ( like trees bending in the wind or fire) can make people think about existing problems using new metaphors. This can help people take their thinking processes out of the ruts of habitual thinking patterns and apply new metaphors which can lead to new outcomes.
    So, I think that many people who feel that they benefit do so in a way that is totally different than 'predicting the future'. They simply are forced to think in new ways and that is not all bad. What is bad is when individuals prey on those who are counting on it to work as advertised.
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    Oct 26 2011: OK I'll defend astrology. Up until recently people lived closer to the seasons. What food was available to you, how much light you got in a day, what the weather was, (no climate controlled homes) was all contingent on what time of year it was. Even how much interaction you received from family members, since some parts of the year people were busier than others. Of course geography played a role too. Born in the winter would a different brought you a different formative 1st year of life than someone born six months later.

    It stands to some reason that those that were highly skilled at pattern thinking could come up with some broad arch types to place people in. Not to say it an exact science or even a science, but I can see some value in using astrology as a broad vague sort of tool. Sort of the way many one may see differences between those that grew up on hippie communes as oppose to military brats, someone might see bbroad overarching patterns that separates a cancer from an pieces. Of course no a days much of the world live much less seasonally and so this thinking has fallen out of favor. That's not to says there was never any valid reasons for this method of thought and its just people being superstitious.
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      Oct 26 2011: and what about the saturn being in opposition with the sun? how this affects anything?
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        Oct 27 2011: I really have no idea. I just defended the part that I could see some logic with. Any system of thought that goes back thousands of years is bound o be loaded with wrong ideas. I just wanted to play the devils advocate a bit as assumed that most people here would dismiss astrology as the playground of fools. Too some extent I see that, but I also feel much of that is merely a reflective response to assert one superior since of intelligence, which may or may not be true, but is not for us to judge.
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    Oct 26 2011: Who am I to say what someone should believe in or not? I am not in any position to prescribe or direct the lives of others.

    People choose to believe what they want. As long as they are doing no harm to anyone and that belief helps them to make sense of their world, then so be it.
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    Oct 25 2011: I believe in 2012.. does that answer your question?
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    Oct 25 2011: Why is it a coincidence that non believers in horoscope know more about its origins than believers? Why do believers don't quite know what it's about in the first place, and just open their magazines without wondering how the information was formed?

    Could it be that the people who are fooled by such scams are those too lazy to figure things out and who rely on specialists to tell them what to think?
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      Oct 26 2011: Like scientists..?
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        Oct 26 2011: Exactly. I've met people who truly believed in evolution, just because they believed in holy science. But when you talked to them, you realized they believed in luck and crazy coincidences.
        There is no authority better than another, Scott. I'm not advocating that science has such authority.
        But what you can do with science is ask questions, ask for good explanations. If the explanation is bad, then you don't have to stick to the idea "just because the guy in the white blouse said so".
        People who blindly believe in science without questionning how knwoledge was experimentally tested often believe in bloodtype relationship with diet, believe in homeopathy, and all sorts of quackery that has been "scientifically proven".

        Don't rely on specialists to tell you what to think. Rely on them to explain their theories, to share what experimental process they used, etc...
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          Oct 31 2011: Fair enough. Well said.

          I have nothing against the scientific method or rational thought. I agree with your statement, that science is misused in the pursuit of profits (just look at the make-up industry) just as religion has been misused to support nasty agendas.

          Don't worry about me, I'm as skeptical as they come.
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    Oct 25 2011: It's a technique to decieve mass.....
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      Oct 26 2011: ..or it's entertainment.
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        Oct 26 2011: yes some can see it as entertainment as well but mass get decieved
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    Oct 25 2011: Its all the matter of your faith.Some people just need good horoscopes to instill faith in them to do the thing they want to do while others like us don't really believe in stuff and do our work.Also as Swami Yogananda points out in his book"Autobiography of a Yogi"he was told to accomplish most difficult tasks by his master only when the so-called horoscopes didn't show an auspicious period coming around.
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    Oct 25 2011: i don't see how my or other members' opinion is important. we have controlled studies showing that those practices don't work. do you believe that a personal opinion is more important than a controlled study?
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      Oct 25 2011: I've seen studies that were done by people that didn't know what they were to study.
      It was their own misconception of any phenomena they were studying so the outcome had nothing to tell apart from the value of their own phantasm.

      If someone is about to study anything it is necessary to understand what it is about beforehand but what happens is that they start from any general belief to see if that belief is valid. What they disprove is the false believe but it says nothing about the subject in itself

      Maybe in general the scientific method isn’t suitable for studies about non objective subjects. In psychology you can proof anything or disprove it if you like that better. Furthermore if there are controlled observations of really stunning things they are neglected by scientists that should be astounded. It is beyond their scope of understanding so they look the other way. When asked they say we must test this under controlled conditions in the lab. But in the lab you can study things and not life. A biologist has to go in the fields and woods to make observations they can’t take nature into the lab without distorting it. The same goes for human studies..
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        Oct 25 2011: so you have seen studies that did not satisfy you, and you concluded that no studies are satisfactory. it is quite a jump.

        but there is no need to disprove such pseudosciences. the burden of proof is on the proposing side. can we have a well-conducted study that shows any reliable result? alas, no.

        scientific method means reproducible and observable effects. if something does not have any reproducible observable effects, what good that thing is? after all, by definition _use_ should be both observable and reproducible. if something can not be demonstrated repeatedly, and is not observable, what is the use of it?
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        Oct 25 2011: Nonsense, Frans. And you can't go around implying that animals are not subject to scientific understanding witout explaining what you mean. Studies on animals, humans included, have been incredibly successful. So much knowledge, so many lives saved.

        You see, no sane person thinks living organisms and non living organisms are made of different stuff...
        So before you argue with the rest of the world, we need access to your alternative theories and gizmo definitions.
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        Oct 25 2011: Good point Frans but I would also like to add that even if things are beyond the scope of scientific understanding (at the present moment) that does not offer any validity to such propositions

        I would also have to disagree with you and state that horoscopes and astrologist do make claims pertaining to human and universal affairs that can cross over into the realm of science.

        they make claims about relationships. They talk about which partners are more suitable for you based off the year they were born. In addition to that they make claims about behaviors based off the year and month you were born. Questions about behaviors are indeed a scientific claim. They make claims about the planets, their orbits and how they have an influence on humans.

        There are also claims about the winter solstice being the death and resurrection of Jesus, I mean the list goes on. All in all I would have to agree with Krisztian in that we do not need to waste time disproving such a pseudoscience.
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        Oct 26 2011: @Scott Armstrong:

        astrology or tarot has any demonstrable effect on imagination? or what is your point?