vishnu narang

This conversation is closed.

When political parties are ineffective or corrupt, should we participate? What is the solution?

In india and many other countries I believe the problem of corruption persists...
and its one problem which is most difficult and near to impossibility to solve...
I have no trust and confidence in any political party or leader in the country.....none of the current leaders can solve the problems of the country and develop...
the majority are corrupt ....what is the way out for such a country with so much to offer to the world...but without proper leadership?

Closing Statement from vishnu narang

More frequent voting so that politicians don't get a free ride for a few years and only start to worry about the public's reaction near the election....Keep them on their toes and keep them INSECURE.....

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    Oct 18 2011: It seems like we're not lacking in inspiring leaders nor in awareness of corruption, but rather a way to get those leaders that we might actually be able to trust into power through corrupt systems and how to keep them informed of the desires of the people they represent when we only have a say every few years on voting day.

    Maybe voting for a party every few years and letting them do what they want is outdated. It suited people fine back when communication and travel were difficult. But maybe with all of the technology available to us in this day and age we could come up with a better system using technologies like the internet and social media. There is no reason for a politician to be disconnected from the public in this age of communication. Polls could easily be done on the internet to find out how people feel about issues and the public could have a say in the actual descisions being made rather than just electing a leader to make those decisions for them.

    Polling everyone every time a decision needs to be made isn't effective if everyone has to take a day off work, go line up in a polling station and manually tick a box, but it could be done with modern technology: You wake up, have your morning coffee, watch the news and vote on some issues on your laptop and then go off to work.
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      Oct 19 2011: I like the idea of being more active....instead of 4 years it can be done anytime....
      but we really need a better system.....if a leader is not performing his required duties....
      we should have the power to remove him and get someone else immediately....not wait for the common elections to come...
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        Oct 27 2011: Agreed, that's what I am suggesting: More frequent voting so that politicians don't get a free ride for a few years and only start to worry about the public's reaction near the election.
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          Oct 28 2011: Yup....thats the final idea i guess... :) :)
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    Oct 18 2011: It will start when the masses are more informed and realize the power that they really have instead of blindly following someone who really does not genuinely care about their interest.
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      Oct 19 2011: Exactly Orlando, we are facing same issue in our country. Just think if people well informed people became apathetic towards it, what will the the results then?
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        Oct 19 2011: Yeah and from the conversation between you and Vishnu, things seem to be worse in India than in the U.S. The government out here in the U.S. is more systematic in their corruption process. Its done in a very intellectual way because they know good and well that the American people will not tolerate the governments corruption if the government was more direct in their approach.

        To answer your question if people realized the power they had, things will change a lot. The masses, the general public is much more larger and much more powerful than an established poly-archy. I really think the answer is more of a neuroscientific, psychological and biological one as much as it is a political and philosophical one. We should try to understand how the human mind can be influenced by certain ideologies and language. From a psychological perspective we should try to understand the influences fear and power has on us and from a biological perspective we should try to understand if the establishments of hierarchies is indeed a product of biology or is it simply a social construct. I could be wrong about this approach but this is how i see it.
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        Oct 19 2011: I couldn't respond to your other post so I'll respond on this one:

        Your right, in democracies individuals have the liberty to speak out their minds and voice their opinions but I personally do not think this is enough without the government really putting into consideration what the people are expressing to them. In the U.S. budget cuts on eduction has had a big impact on individuals. I have been involved and and seen and heard many protest but most of this efforts seems really futile given that nothing has really changed. Also it really comes down to how much money is in the piggy bank in regards to education. So despite these efforts if the money is not there then there really is nothing the government can do. The U.S. really is no different given that we have many fanatic people on the Right (really extravagant, evangelical Republicans and Tea Party members). Now I do not want to generalize and state that all politicians are bad but I think for the most part they are more worried about getting elected and fulfilling their personal interest before that of the people they rule. But your right, it really does come down to picking the lesser of two evils.

        I'm not advocating that people be apathetic about their government. If anything that will spell a recipe for disaster and for a corrupt government, it would be as though they hit the jackpot if millions of people did not care what they did. People should be more critical than apathetic but what I was saying is that if few individuals out of a million did not care, this would not be a problem.

        With regards to whats going on in India, that is very interesting and I can see why you and Vishnu are really passionate about his. I looked up Team Anna and it does seem to promote good policies. I really wish there were more people like that in America that are willing to stand up for whats right. The ones that do are given labels like fanatic, extremist, conspiracy theories, etc all of which have negative connotations.
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          Oct 20 2011: Thanks for the wishes Orlando. We,as young representatives of India, are tying hard from our side, by taking part in protests and spreading awareness about the menace of corruption. We know its a long battle but we will surely sail through it one day. and I completely agree with the fact that a few individuals out of a million are not accountable for any problem. The only thing I wanted to emphasize that this apathetic attitude shall not propagate among masses.
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    Oct 18 2011: Start your own movement.

    Find people who also want change, find common ground, make a statement, go lobby and eventually try and get elected yourself.

    Or try and add to existing movements, connect them and augment their impact.

    Or figure out how you can prove the corruption, and publish it.
    So many things you can do. If you really want to of course... (Change does not come from people who just state things are bad)
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    Oct 31 2011: heheheheh....yes I am a Nepali
    And I also know that You are Indian...ok...then lets
    talk about Negative attitude?????
    Attitude...what do u say say about this
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    Oct 30 2011: I didnot got...u
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    Oct 30 2011: HOw????
    I did not undestood...
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    Oct 29 2011: ye..balla..jane!!!
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    Oct 26 2011: NO! Your view is totally negative cause there are some ministers and political leader who want to do something for India! So plz don't tell like that and vote for right person and develop positive attitude,,
    Best of luck
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      Oct 27 2011: :) that's not negative attitude...its a fact...
      just by ignoring that fact wont change anything...
      the problem is we cant do anything else than to go and vote for the best....although it does not make a difference....we genuine voters are in minority....So what you call negative attitude is actually my concern of trying to think of a better option....
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        Oct 29 2011: Then it is better to talk about negative attitude rather than these topics.....Then it would be fruitfullll!!!!
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          Oct 30 2011: ok...start :)
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          Oct 31 2011: you are NEPALI....nice.. :)
          and i was saying...lets talk about negative it would be fruitful you say :) :)
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    Oct 20 2011: To solve a problem you must first find what is causing the problem.

    Why are governments corrupt?
    Why aren't the people doing anything about it?

    Well to answer the first question, governemnts are corrupt when certain people decide to use the governemnt system for their own well being instead of the peoples. This problem can not really be stopped. In every government people will become corrupt with power, but it is the citizens job to remove them from office if they do become corrupt.

    The second question is a bit easier to answer. The people of India and other countries with corrupt governments are not doing anything about their governemnts because they either are unaware of their governements corruption (this actually happens quite a lot. Citizens are too isolated to hear news about the government or theyare too busy working to feed their families to even care or have an interest in government.) or they are too afraid/unaware of how to solve this problem.

    So, what is the solution? Is it to start peacful protest? Is it to vote for independent poiliticans? This is a major proble and I truely hope that India and other countries are able to find a solution.
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      Oct 21 2011: to add to the 2nd answer........ no solution has worked so far....and even if we remove a corrupt politician from power to put someone else in his turns out...the other one is no good...
      so naturally people rather look out for their families....and not politicians...
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        Oct 21 2011: Not every politician will be corrupt. I am confident there are many that would help to help out India as much as they can. The peoples job is to find those politicians, vote for them, and never lose hope.
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          Oct 21 2011: to vote for them they need to compete in the elections....and convince the people abt not being corrupt...which is the most difficult task....
          bcoz you know every crazy person says that he is not crazy... :)
          i mean would you believe if a person just tells you that he is not corrupt....and that too if he is a politician... think about the difficulty....
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    Oct 19 2011: @ Vishnu: A simple answer to your queries can be the laws, "Right to reject and Right to recall" which are in discussion because of Team Anna these days.
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      Oct 19 2011: yup...i'm aware of that....i just hope it gets through this corrupt government and gets implemented...
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    Oct 18 2011: Maybe you should start your own party, there must be some likeminded people you can join forces with.
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      Oct 19 2011: starting ones own party is again not so easy and feasible....
      1: finding like minded people is not enough...
      2: convincing them is a pain.
      3: even if convinced getting into politics and actually winning an election is near to impossible...
      because people do not trust anyone new....and if they get cash for their votes we'll end up getting only a handful of votes...

      so yeah this is again movie stuff....
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        Oct 19 2011: Complete true, that's the thing which have puzzled Indian youths these days. Yes it is a movie stuff, but changing a system is simply like putting your life at stake. You know how true it is for India.
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          Oct 19 2011: yup....its like putting life at stake...and not many people shall be willing to do that...
          frankly speaking i wont do that....because the fact is that there is less than 0.01% chance to succeed in making a difference in country like INDIA...
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      Oct 26 2011: Yes it's the perfect answer..
      Cause if you see the problem then you should know the solution MAn!!!!
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    Oct 18 2011: well the problem is that the power they have cannot be used to reject all candidates....
    they have to elect atleast one...thats like the rule...
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    Oct 18 2011: um...but how would that really help...
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    Oct 18 2011: i would like to see ballots with no names or parties just spaces to put in cannidates forcing us to research them.
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    Oct 18 2011: Is that really feasible....all this looks great in movies...but the extent of corruption is so much that you'll never get elected....people pay money in CASH to buy votes....and what would you choose as a common person in a country of more than a billion....your job and family or trying to get elected and all....

    what you say is not practical....sorry but i disagree with this solution....
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    Oct 18 2011: I don't recommand you do like me, but this is how I've worked it out :
    I never vote and never get interested in politicians. I know a few names, but that's it.
    I leave it to people who care. Sure, if everyone was like me, we'd be living with a dictator. But I truly don't understand why the world is such a peaceful place, why democracies work. I admire the people who believe in it.
    I'm just amazed and focus on my daily life, enjoying what other people fight for.

    Is this wrong?
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      Oct 18 2011: I am sorry to say, but if you are living in a democracy, it is certainly wrong. People who are educated enough, who can differentiate between good or bad, and never cast their votes, have no right to crib about governmental policies or issues of nations.Please consider it as a generalized statement.
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        Oct 18 2011: You're absolutely right.
        As I said, I admire those who care enough to make this a great world.
        I'll never say anything bad about any politician. I'm too much of an ignorant for this.

        I'm a good person and do good around me. I just can't get interested in governmental policies.

        Is it a duty to care about it? Or is being a really nice citien enough?
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          Oct 18 2011: I admire your honesty.

          What IS that picture?
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          Oct 18 2011: If you consider that you "understand" that if a particular candidate who is fighting election is low on moral values and corrupt, and if he/she gets elected and may bring more harm to society then you can be considered as a culprit as you knew that this candidate wasn't good enough and still you were happy being a good citizen and ignored the democratic process. But if you are well aware that all the candidates are good enough OR not at all aware about any candidate, you are quite right at your place as using your voting right without knowing the candidate is also not right. well I also admire your honestly, as I can see my old image in your thoughts.
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          Oct 18 2011: What if every candidate is corrupt??
          what will you do then...
          ignoring does not help then....
          and @Gerald: I do accept your man cannot make a its only natural to think that way....
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        Oct 18 2011: mole rat
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        Oct 18 2011: @Vivek Trivedi why don't these individuals have the right to speak out against governmental issues an policies? It is one thing to be ignorant about what is going on, its another thing to realize that this incremental progress is at best, ridiculous and choose to not vote on it because you do not agree. The truth of the matter is, voting does not really matter for the individuals that are voting. In the U.S. during political campaigns people are so caught up in rhetoric of these politicians that they really do not know what is going on. Usually those who do would not engage in voting given that they realize that what these candidates promise is not really going to come about. With the election of Obama it really seemed like people were more concerned about making History as opposed to pay attention to the policies (this is partly evident by the way people are reacting towards Obama now).

        Plus, to be honest, it would not matter if Gerald decides to vote or not, given that there will be a million other people who will vote, making his vote in a sense useless. So its really not as bad as you think it is. Now if many people are misinformed and glorify the government and fail to see the corruption due to being apathetic to politics, then we would have a problem. But apathy is not the problem, its ignorance.
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          Oct 19 2011: @Orlando: Firstly in every democratic country, Individuals have right to speak against governmental issues or policies, but would request you to consider this, your voice is bound to suppressed due to fanatic supporters a particular party, this is very true for India, I have no idea about US, how it works there. I fail to understand the fact that voting does not matter for the individuals. I agree with the things that politicians promise so many things during their campaign but I feel that everybody, who is the part of nation, and can put their minds during the election time, you can say only to choose lesser evil between two or more candidates ( (here I am considering all politicians are corrupt), it will be great service of people to their nation.

          And say, if the feeling of Gerald, comes in million of like minded people, and they decide not to vote because of apathy, what kind of government we are bound to get? The government which will spend all our taxes as per their wish.

          Your last statement said many people are misinformed and glorify the government due to being apathetic to politics. I can perceive from it the being apathetic is a larger issue in the interest of nation, If you are ignorant about everything, then choosing not to vote "may" be a little right.

          I appreciate your insights and you may be right considering the political situation in your country, but I would request you to special case of India, where dynastic rule has been imposed on us since independence, which is because in every election voting percentages are always between 35-40%. As you said, apathy towards democratic processes has stopped people in taking interest and part in it, and votes are being given on the name of caste, creed and dynasty.