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What do you think is the main reason why contemporary kids do not like / understand opera?
Speaking of music, my generation has a strong tendency to go mainstream and identify themselves with modern music, that unfortunately seems to be from assembly line production -- all the same with no soul and no real massage to demonstrate.
When I mention opera as a beautiful music genre and an interesting way of expressing your thoughts through music, the majority doesnt get it. They probably think it is too "old school" or too boring to have an actual contribution to their lives, or they assume it is a part of the "high-society" life, that not all of them can and want to live.
Can you think of any ways to make opera more attractive and open to all of us? Do you think opera should somehow evolve and adapt to the requirements of the market, or that it should stay classical and traditional?
Anna Tanneberger
For the same scenario in architecture read "From Bauhaus to Our House" by Tom Wolfe.
For the same scenario in literature, I speak from personal experience as an editor and project manager for an international publisher.
Anna Tanneberger
There must always be room for experiment in art and new forms that may at first be inaccessible. But unfortunately, because the atonal classical music from the midddle of the last century was so inaccessible, it gave a lot of room for talentless con artists to jump on the band waggon and pretend that what they produced was art and alienated and ridiculed anyone who did not appreciate it. So anyone who listened to Verdi was considered a low-brow idiot and driven from the theatre by ridicule. So an entire generation since then did not bring up their children to love opera as their forefathers had.
Architecture suffered much the same fate, as did poetry and reading. Kids are still being brought up that they should only read "good books" under which is understood, anything that is not enjoyable. Based on the mindless philosophy that if food tastes bad it must be good for you, like spinach, and you should avoid any food that tastes good. So, if it is a boring read, it is a good book. So "good mothers" forbid their chidlren to read thrillers or romances and they end up reading nothing at all, ever. That is what happened to opera.
Therefore, if you want audiences, respect them. The avant garde did not respect their audiences.
Krisztián Pintér 100+
Verble Gherulous 20+
Speaking from personal experience, I didn't like opera until my dad introduced me to the Who's Tommy (a ROCK Opera), which I know is not "true" opera, but it did lead me to appreciate opera as artistic expression (especially La Boheme - wow! I still remember crying when I got a chance to see that!)
I don't think opera has to change to make itself more appealing for the kids - I think culturally we have to shift. Kids have access to ALL kinds of music - they have to reach out and explore beyond the banal and the repetitious. But it would help if WE as a society would stop looking at opera as something for the elderly rich elite and demand that ticket prices become more affordable and if we would start going to opera ourselves in droves, and take our kids at a very young age the same way we take them to amusement parks or county fairs. THAT would be a way to engender an appreciation and expose them to this beautiful form.
And of course, play Tommy in the car while driving them to school every day!
John Fitzhugh
Kids like things that catch their attention. A loud, fast drum beat and a loud guitar is exciting to a child and catches their attention. Singing classical music (softer and smoother and therefore less exciting than rock) for TWO HOURS does not hold a child's attention, especially in another language (even in English, it is often hard to understand what is being said). There are more factors, but this is a HUGE reason.
Also, kids don't understand what is going on in opera. If they understood the story and knew what was going on at each moment (not just the general plot), it would help them enjoy it more. But don't forget, pop songs are 2-3 minutes long, and an opera can last for hours. There will still be boredom for some kids even if they understand what is going on.
Anne Dagen
A whole opera is large and indigestible as an introduction to a style of music. Smaller samples are more likely to open someone's mind to a particular style, and use of a wide range of genres provides an opportunity for people to tune in to musical storytelling.
As far aas the visual component is concerned, film and video often offer a more intensive experience than a stage production, with sophisticated use of music.
There's a lot of musical experience out there which has the potential to lead youngsters to expand their listening horizons, and I think that sort of education has much more validity than trying to focus on one particular genre, with all the baggage of its traditional terminalogy.
I'm not decrying opera when I say all this, but I think we should start to view it as part of a multidimensional spectrum of music if we want to break down barriers.
Verble Gherulous 20+
Now if I could just encourage her to take that newfound enthusiasm and actually READ the epic for herself!
But still, that ties into what you are saying - essentially, that the story is what is important. How it is told is a transmitting of the story: if a person can digest it fully through an opera, wonderful, and if some want to hear it in a million tweets throughout the day, either way can be expressive as an art form. A person who truly appreciates it and is enlightened by one medium will eventually find their way into the other media.
Or am I way off base?
Anne Dagen
But there's a third factor and that's the style of music itself. I don't agree with the assumption that it is a worthy goal to get kids to like traditional opera for its musical content. The highly trained voice and elaborate score are not to everyone's taste and we should respect that. As kids mature, their tastes change and it's good to make a lot of different styles accessible to them but there isn't a 'right' type of music that they should grow to like.
mazha wang
Christophe Cop 500+
Like everything: you can only like things if you are exposed to it first.
Being exposed to different styles of culture is an important thing (in education)...
Popularizing can be done, but then you might need huge marketing budgets. Promoting role models, broadcasting,...
As for different interpretations of opera: both the classical and more contemporary approaches have their benefits.
As with all things cultural (and musical): it gets mixed, rediscovered, revived, dormant,... but it almost never ceases to exist.
Mike Monkowski
Now maybe if the audience got to sing along and sway their arms like they do at a Taylor Swift concert. Ah, picture that.
Sneha Akarapu
Dean Gems
as for message is concerned, most of the operas are pedestrian (for info, i am a classical pianist, so i do know what i am talking abt). Each genre is a reflection of the culture in which it took birth. In the absence of that culture, we can only relive it by educating and discipline of music. if you really wanna sell it, get a celebrity to tweet abt it....if opera has to be mainstream, all things concurrent to it has to be mainstream. that's why shakespeare and the like are not cool.
marc khoury
Another thing to remember, which helps answer the question, is pointing out how classical music (in operas too), are actually the starting point for any good music. Techno that sounds good, that is melodic, is in fact following the "rules" that were set by the greatest composers of all time. Many artists, across genres, actually use bits and pieces of classical. This a funny yet educational video about classical in all musical genres:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM
Just showing kids (or adults) that classical music, as well as opera, is at the core of most modern music, will at least start by gaining some respect.
In terms of them liking it. I must agree, that it is a matter of personal taste. Some people like it, others don't.
From the metal music scene, there are a lot of examples of bands integrating classical music to their style. Rhapsody of Fire in fact, write what they call Metal Operas. Metallica had a concert where they performed with a full classical orchestra playing with them.
It's music. It's emotional. You don't have to necessarily understand it. But you have to feel it. And the more you keep an open mind, the better you feel it.
Julian V
However, I would like to ask, why should opera become more attractive? I ask this question in two ways.
(1) Why should it need to change from what it is to become more attractive to the mainstream.
(2) What is it about opera that requires its preservation?
P.S: I don't mean any disrespect with these questions.
Krisztián Pintér 100+
1. no need
2. nothing
we don't need 17th century paintings, architecture or literature either. there is no need to preserve erasmus, bach or michelangelo. we don't need to. we just want to. because we love and admire these things.
marc khoury
1- I agree, no need at all.
2- Opera itself is being preserved as a statement of great achievements. But classical music is the basis, the foundation of all modern music. No exceptions... understanding notes... how to place them... all of it... you preserve it, because the best artists in their respective genres, all.... understand music...
Emil Stolarsky 500+
On a side note, I do enjoy Operas and Opera music, but I feel sometimes they go on just a little to long.
Kadin Sullivan
Karina Eisner 10+
Building up on a previous post about adjusting to the times not by changing opera, but by making it relevant to the youth, I want to share this.
Looking for something else, I came across conductor Akira Miyagawa. He is not the traditional type, although he is a classical conductor. For adults and children alike he found his way to make that music attractive to many.
On top of his regular engagements, he has (or had) a TV program very much like the Muppets. The program is organized like a quintet (this gives the name to the series, You Gotta Quintet). First, a formal theme song is played, then a puppet show is presented, next, an instructional transition (e.g. music cartoons), then a concert, and finally a closing piece related to the theme. This is a friendly way to attract the younger crowd and inspire them, maybe to even take up en instrument. Wait a minute, this is Japan, of course almost every child already plays an instrument!
Here is a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYB5a6o9ab8&feature=related
Anyway, I wonder if a similar approach including Opera would not help the very young in the West... Well in fact the Muppets have done it first, just not only focusing on Opera, but they touched on it... in their own way. Not sure if this will keep opera in its rightful place, though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0Q-W0FvR6g&feature=related
Craig Patterson
Take your pick....
vishnu narang
happy to have this conversation :)
Katarína Kondrótová 20+
Maxine Wong
Today, I think contemporary music concerts ARE the modern operas. They're elaborate shows that address topics that resonate with today's youth, in a context and language that they can understand. I'm not saying that classical opera should just be forgotten, but it does need to take those things into account. A lot of today's musicals and plays are based on older stories, but are re-written with account for today's society. Romeo and Juliet became West Side Story. Madama Butterfly became Miss Saigon (and was referenced in Weezer's Pinkerton album). Othello became O. I think that linking these modern takes back to their original operas and plays will help garner an interest in traditional opera.
Jom Bunsiri
vinay kallat
if you are trying to impart that making them aware of something would help them connect to it much better.Yes it would help to some extent but not really necessary that they still like it or rather enjoy it. I have tried this on my mom several times, by letting her know what are the rules and what football is all about. but she still does not like it,forget about enjoying it and feels it is a stupid game with 20 players running after a single ball. :)
Jom Bunsiri
However, I would like to share my experiences of being in the opera theatres. When I was in St.Petersburg, Russia, some years ago, I saw people are happy to go to theatre. Even children enjoyed opera very much. When I was in Tokyo, Japan, some years ago, I went to Cirque Du Soleil theatre. I saw a lot of children waiting for shows. These two examples are the successes of theatre development and marketing that help the kids to easily digest music values. Through marketing approaches, the theatres need to communicate and deliver music values to their target market. In business term, to communicate is to educate how to enjoy the shows. (Many theatres are not targeting at kids. So, if we want to ask if kids go to theatres or not, we need to know first if the theatres want kids to get in or not.)
The topic of this conversation is "What do you think is the main reason why contemporary kids do not like / understand opera?". I think it's theatre's problem, not kids' problem.
vinay kallat
Its like they are not thought or educated to enjoy opera,Kids are shown something they can enjoy,like and connect to in Opera.Which I have heard of Opera by/For children which is already present if i am not wrong.
Cause for me "Enjoyment can never be forced or educated;its felt by your soul".
i may be naive in commenting so but I strongly belive it.
i know many of my friends who were forced to learn classical music by their parents but till date none of them enjoy singing it although they know evrything about it; While some who don't have any clue of classical music try their heart out to sing and listen to it because they enjoy doing so.
Jom Bunsiri
1. This video is about injecting thoughts to people's mind. It helps us to understand how businesses often demonstrate marketing campaigns. In case we were in London or New York, there are a lot of psychological manipulations that make us feel good about some products and services. Even if we do not intentionally notice or try to remember those campaigns, we will feel good for the next time we have direct experience with the products and services.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyQjr1YL0zg
2. These two videos are about assisting one girl to feel good about piano again after years of not playing it Just simply concluded by the phrase "you are very good pianist". Many parents may find this phrase very useful because kids love sweet words and love to show off in what they are good at.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sej8Moh-Uls&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlp6jIR0x14&feature=related
However, this experimental experience will not happen with everyone, but I strongly believe that with efforts, people can be changed to be a better person and great musician.
vinay kallat
Some of things about your post that I liked is " injecting thoughts to people's mind" which I 100% agree that you can inject your views and thoughts into others. "Psychological manipulations that make us feel good about some products and services" again I agree 100% that’s called marketing for me.
But what I am wondering is "Can you inject or manipulate peoples way of what they enjoy?"
If that is being done I would love to see that .I am already wondering the video posted would show me a glimpse of how to do that...Cause I believed that you can change someone’s view, thought process,even make him kill someone by injection and manipulation...Not sure whether it is affective with something that you enjoy...Many husbands would love to see that video to change their wife's nature of enjoying shopping and make them enjoy golf or basketball.. ;).....
2. Second Point I could connect a little more....Of appreciating someone of what they are doing is good....so that they enjoy doing it....Cause human tendency is to enjoy doing something they are good at...But again the consequence of appreciation can have various side effects..Especially if they are wrongly appreciated. American Idol I can see a lot of bad singers could not accept rejection as they think they were really good at it as per the views given by their family members.But they were actually not....And also this "Positive Appreciation" might not work for a broader retro spectrum. In the sense you can just appreciate your wife in golf saying that she is really good at it; when she could herself make out that she is not even able to hit the ball..She would lose interest somewhere...
Jom Bunsiri
To answer to your points, I would like to state that there is no single universal solution for making something happen or to change other people. However, in this question topic, I think the hidden objective is to brainstorm for solutions for those kids to feel good about opera. I demonstrated many possible solutions that will make good synergy. It depends on readers' view if they catch the real understanding of my opinions or not. If here becomes a debate, maybe we should set a new topic in another section.
vinay kallat
Jom Bunsiri
vinay kallat
But I am not really in favour of prorammin human beings to enjoy somethin..We would be generatin machines with all havin same interests and thought process and values.I have already seen people commentin in other topics that we are not free even our views and thoughts are guided by the society.We are like playing a chess were we are free to move anything but our evry move is still controlled..Programming persons for enjoyin somethin would be really traggic to see..
I Really feel stronly the topic should change to "What should Opera do that kids like it?" Its not like "how to change the taste of a person?" but "how to cook food interestingly or creatively so that most of the person like it"?
Thanks a lot.Learnt something new.
Jom Bunsiri
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=befugtgikMg&feature=fvsr
However, many studies admit that such an attemp may harm human rights. Sometimes, it's called dark side of psychology.
Bibijoux Jewelry
Rebellion and group identity is a big part of how young people relate to their world.
A good teacher can make the history of ideas interesting to kids-
However how we each respond to sound and music, and whether it affects us deeply, or annoys us- it is really very individual to each person.
Eric Marsh
Fast forward a few years. Music became "strictly commercial" and in my opinion it became boring. So I struck out to see what else is out there. One day Carmen was on PBS and in my new spirit of open-mindedness I watched. Many of the melodies were familiar and that peaked my interest. I bought some tapes and a season ticket to Opera San Jose and in short order I was hooked.
Since then I've continued to explore other genres. For the last few years it's been big band swing to a large extent. But perhaps the key concept here is exploration. And yes, I discovered and learned to like Philip Glass too. Satyagraha is in my collection.
I think that many young people are the same as I was when I was younger. They live in their own little subculture and essentially turn their backs on much of what is outside of that realm. I can't blame them. Many people aren't bright enough to break out but there are those who do. And some of them are the ones you see at the opera house.
Incidentally I see that some here are from Britain. Exploring youtube I came across this promo for The Cunning Little Vixen at Grange Park. It looks like such a great production I would have loved to live close enough to see it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_76C6CCTBbE
Karina Eisner 10+
Our Opera House had a neat way of catering for young adult group without watering down the content at all. They put together a Classical Club. Only for ages 18-25, an almost free ticket (good seats, not last-row balcony :-) and a pre-performance talk or behind the scenes tour afterwards.
To be part of the club people had to sign up and commit to the whole season. If absent to 2 or more performances, they'd lose membership. There was a special section of the cafe where the club could chat during the intermezzo. The Club offered an alternative outing and social networking at an age when staying connected and meeting others was key.
Now 20 years later and a different country, our local Opera House does have discounted tickets for students. It also reaches out to the community from early on, performing in elementary schools and visiting high schools' music and choir classes to mentor and demonstrate.
I can imagine art competitions where student classes attend as a whole (having been exposed to the plot before) and do a quick draw, painting, collage, etc. followed by an exhibition in the foyer for the rest of the season.
You can even go out on a limb and have an online competiton for teens and young adults to turn the plot into a poem or song, and then post it in the Opera House website under a Youth tab. It will get them researching the plot by themselves, and creating something new, and is way less passive than just listening. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ4f9OIMjH8
Just some ideas of ways that opera can be introduced in the 21st century youth.
Eric Marsh
Anyhow I've tried to tempt him to get season tickets this year by putting a bit of an emphasis on the, um, gory and sensationalist aspects of two of them. I figure that with pop culture being what it is parading the decapitated heads of princes through the town square (Turandot) and a wedding party that turns into a slasher psycho drama (Lucia) ought to have some appeal. After all, some things never change. Sex and violence have always sold. To quote Georges Bizet, “As a musician I tell you that if you were to suppress adultery, fanaticism, crime, evil, the supernatural, there would no longer be the means for writing one note.”
Karina Eisner 10+
You are around the corner, we should join forces :-) Judging by your avatar, it will not take you long to get to Houston...
Going to Il Barbierii Di Seviglia next month...
Eric Marsh
Karina Eisner 10+
If you are even considering it, Il Barbieri is almost sold out, so as they say "hurry, this offer won't last long"...
Ivaylo Sotirov
Not only as a music, but also as a story telling media. I've been to a few of the big named Operas in London, and never liked them much beyond the "going to a high class event in a fancy suit" feel they give you :)
Personally I think as a story telling medium the classic Opera is desperately archaic!
We're probably the most narratively proficient society that has ever existed on this planet! From big budget movies to televised series, HBOs and sitcoms, graphic novels, independent youtube movies, animations, musicals, video games, the paperback novel etc. etc.
I'm not saying that Opera has no place in modernity, all I'm saying is that's not surprising if it survives on the fringes of the modern world.
Because once you strip the narrative value all you got left is some fancy singing, and if you don't happen to like that very particular type of singing style then the media of the Opera becomes void of all potential value for you.
Krisztián Pintér 100+
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CYK-OIOMXk
Katarína Kondrótová 20+
I love his music ... he makes soundtracks that might not be so epic in their grandness, but they are pretty intimate and evoke a very strong feeling (of fear and dejection usually- appealing on the Secret Window Movie music). He is the master of harmony and beautiful musical minimalism.
The vid you just sent is indeed interesting. Again a proof that he can make a something out of nothing :)
Gerald O'brian 30+
Einstein on the beach is wonderful. Big fan.
Krisztián Pintér 100+
Juliette Zahn 30+
I liked it a lot!!
Katarína Kondrótová 20+
Krisztián Pintér 100+
Jaime Lubin 10+
Krisztián Pintér 100+
Benjamin Loke
Krisztián Pintér 100+
Anna Tanneberger
Krisztián Pintér 100+
Jaime Lubin 10+
Robbie O'Brien
Kathryn Keats
Jaime Lubin 10+