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Julian Treasure

Chairman, The Sound Agency

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TED Speaker Julian Treasure: What would a conscious listening world be like – and how do we get there?

In my talk from this year's TEDGlobal, I warned that we are losing our listening, and explored the links between listing and connection, understanding and peace. How do you think listening (or the lack of it) affects our society? And what would a world of conscious listening be like? How would your life experience change? Is it something worth striving for – and if so, how do we get there? And how can you contribute?

Please type in your responses/comments/questions below.

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Topics: Listening
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    Thomas Brooks

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    Oct 17 2011: It seems we un-learn some of our ability to listen consciously.

    In a recent project in Switzerland called "City Life" a group of children spent a week digitally recording the soundscape of their town, led by musician Luca Congedo. By Friday they had created a huge map of the city and were able to express with startling clarity the audio environment. This attention to the sound of things (they recorded patients in hospitals and machines and animals and plants,..) provided them with access to a rich detail of other sensations of the places including smells and colors and emotions.

  • T O

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    Oct 17 2011: To possibly achieve conscious listening one would have to be fully capable of visual impression. Too often there is an attempt to understand without perceiving context (i.e., facial expression, gestures, feeling, photographs, imagery...) and creating that image within our own minds to create a behavior or feeling towards the environment or self.

    The lack of listening in our society creates self-absorption with the lack of capacity to understand how our actions may trigger a pattern in behavior that very well mimics our own. I believe that we would fail to understand those things that may not particularly pertain to our own lives/ selves and therefore disregard it as uneventful or meaningless.

    I think it is something worth striving for first and foremost on an individual basis. People would need the appropriate and individualized tools catered to suit their needs and their learning styles.

    I would hope to contribute by engaging in discussion. I would believe that in order for conscious listening to be established an interest or concern needs to be present.
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    Karina Eisner 10+

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    Oct 15 2011: I met an amazing woman, Barbara, coincidentally also in Surrey, who used to train schools, parents, and couples on listening and adjusting skills.

    In her personal experience she had moved a lot, and understood the communication divide of most of her clients, expats always on their way somewhere else. Lack of enough time in addition to the imperative need to quickly manage too many factors simultaneously (new job, new office, new position, new town, new house, new school, new social network, new friends' group for the kids, new language, new foods) can have a short circuit effect, or at least tunnel vision of sorts, where everyone listens to their own music -not each other.
    Her seminaries were excellent. Beyond the practical results at that particular time and place, they empowered us to re-focus and take charge of our life. The principles learned there have been totally transferable to later life events.

    Yes, conscious listening is important, and it can be learned. Mostly, it needs practice.
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    João Coucelo 10+

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    Oct 13 2011: Hi! Can't tell that this is a new problem but it surely looks like that is getting worst!
    In the last 40 years there has been a cut between what "older" people know and learned from their ancestors and what "new" people learned from the former.

    Somehow people became more intellectually arrogant. They were able to extend that teenage typical psychologically phase through the twenties and so on.

    I imagine that is due to the format education generally has and because there was a wider social access to knowledge and academic education after the second world war, then latter the computers, mobile phones, smartphones, the www (internet)...

    I like to listen, fortunately I get a lot to listen to in the hospital, all those elderly people are dusted and wrecked treasures with valuable lessons to take from their life stories.
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      Julian Treasure 200+

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      Oct 16 2011: Wonderful description of the locked up beauty we can access by listening to old people. Surely along with teenagers they are among the least listened to people on the planet – and yet they have so much to share. I agree with your concern: in the talk I mention the relatively new paradigm of 'personal broadcasting', which requires no listening at all and goes hand in hand with the 'me-first' materialist culture we've managed to entrench and amplify with every successive generation. Hence 'sodcasting' in all its forms.
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        João Coucelo 10+

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        Oct 16 2011: Thank you for the time spent on commenting back.
        I am very thankful that I can listen to people with great knowledge and ideas here at TED, let alone to interact and have some feedback.
        Wish you all the best with your work and hope you reach more people.

      • dan philips

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        Oct 16 2011: Wouldn't it be nice to have more of our elderly people become more active in our education system? To become teachers and mentors to the younger generations, would also give them more purpose and communication in their retirement years. But would the youth listen, probably not, unless if they were their own grandparents. Maybe getting these two groups together would make the " conscious listening" easier to achieve.

  • Albert Hong

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    Oct 16 2011: I think it is the first step to a world without the need for war and violence.

    Listening is to open your heart (being vulnerable) and be willing to challenge your own personal beliefs, customs or even moral values.

  • Mike Hudgins

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    Oct 16 2011: Good to hear you will be doing more work on this. I would suggest that the cause or effect is important depending on your goals, until your final words I was going to agree. If your goal is to achieve "Sound Business Focuses" then I agree, cause or effect does not matter. You can simply teach people how to consciously listen to their own benefit and they will improve what ever business they persue, but, it seems to me that if we truly want to change the world (not just teh business world) then a more encompassing model must be sought.
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    Amir Azizi Sarajy

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    Oct 12 2011: Almost at the end of the movie " Se7en " Mills ( Brad Pitt ) asked the serial Killer why did you do it ?

    John Doe replies : " Wanting people to pay attention, you can't just tap them on the shoulder. Sometimes you have to hit them in the head with a sledgehammer... and then you get their strict attention ".

    As you mentioned on your talk not just media but even we have to shout to get others attention,

    One of the biggest contributors to this are SMS and twits , because of 150 character limit, the conversation are compressed to their very core essence and they are just key words not dialogues. This has an amazing effect because in a dialogue when you say Hi I should say Hi right away , but when you send me a message I don't need to, you can have my attention at the time of my choosing not yours.

    I call it " Dialogue on Demand " , you can talk but I will listen to you whenever I want. No surprise that kids are having difficulties during a simple conversation and get bored very soon and want to end it a.s.a.p.

    By the way , Thanks a lot for the talks, and there is something that I would love to know.

    The way you talk , your voice and your speech pattern is so calming and listening to you is so relaxing, Did you specifically worked on it , because I noticed it was at its best at your 2011 speech.

    Your speech is very soothing and musical, and I was wondering if you practiced to talk based on 12 frequencies of ocean waves or something similar ? or I could be totally wrong and this is just how you talk :) , I love the way you talk, it is great.
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      Julian Treasure 200+

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      Oct 16 2011: Thanks for the kind words Amir. I have trained in speaking and presenting of course... I encourage others to train their voice if they are to speak compellingly, so it would be inconsistent not to do it myself. I work with a lovely voice coach called Randolph Matthews (a fine singer and thinker about sound who has a gig coming up soon if anyone's in the London area). I haven't ever come across 12 frequencies of ocean waves, but I do aim to be very conscious when on stage (or indeed all the time) and to use this lovely instrument we have all been given as mindfully as possible.
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        Amir Azizi Sarajy

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        Oct 16 2011: that is amazing , I would love to meet you someday and Mr.Matthews as well, I love Thinkers, a Sound Thinker, that is awesome, I believe big improvements won't come unless we think deeply about it, thinking by my sight is the most important asset that we humans have and a big , gigantic requirement to that is Listening and conscious Listening , Thanks a lot for bringing it up to the public's conscious.

        by the way any news on teaching Listening at schools ? I would love to hear the news of that.
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    Julian Treasure 200+

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    Oct 16 2011: Lovely idea. Worth fighting for also, with only a tiny proportion of the Earth not polluted by overflights or toher man-made noise.

  • Mark Thur

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    Oct 14 2011: I think we should aim for the Futurists ideal of an omni-present symphony of the soundscape.

    With the arrival of the noiseless engine and quiet tires of the electric car and the ability to adapt your personal soundscape on your pocket devices, we're starting to gain more control over our sonic environment. Let's make some conscious decisions.

    Luigi Russolo and more participants in the early twentieth century Futurist Movement embraced all the new sounds of the modern world they were bombarded with. They incorporated these sounds in their orchestral works.
    If we can listen to our sonic environment as if it were one big composition in which we al contribute we find a new arena for social interactions. Conscious listening is the key.

    I've been finding a lot of musical patterns in everyday sounds and soundscapes, but found it really hard to record these because a microphone is much to objective and can't 'lock on' to a specific pattern in an abundant soundscape. The human brain can! Easily! That's what we do!...

    It only takes a mindset to hear this music.

    With me it made a click when I started enjoying "chaotic" electronic music (DJ Spooky, Stockhausen, Cage, some Aphex Twin, Autechre, et al.) and Free Jazz(rock). While cycling through The Netherlands I have these musical frases in mind and occasionally an accidental harmony occurred between the soundscape and this music in my head. Imaginary music with one foot rooted in reality...

    I started calling this Musique Trouvé.

    Having a culture based on vision was nice for a while but with almost 40.000 pictures being uploaded to Flickr every hour it's kind of losing meaning and urgency...
    Let's explore what a culture based on sound can do for us.

    I'm always making music with the soundscape that's surrounding me and the people around me.
    Public parks should have more creative sound installations.

    In my mind I've already arrived at the symphonic soundscape. Everyones mind is wired to experience this.

    Mark Thur
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      Julian Treasure 200+

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      Oct 16 2011: This is exactly what I mean by the exercise 'savoring' that I included in the talk. Your practice is not far from Cage's concept of musique concrete, and it does as you say make life far more interesting to be (as I like to term it) hearing the hidden choir in mundane sounds.

      • Mark Thur

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        Oct 16 2011: Hi Julian,

        thanks for the reply.

        As much as I respect John Cage's work in the field of classical music, I prefer the viewpoint of Edgar Varésè that music is organized sound.
        When you lock on to musical patterns in the soundscape you organize sound within your brain. When you accept any 'accidentally' present sound as being musical, like Cage, you forget that in a natural world without humans there will be sound, but no music.

        'Choice' is wat makes sound into music.

        I propose creating "Listening Fields" opposed to "Lookout Points". Conscious listeners should choose locations with an exceptionally beautiful soundscape, possibly with a hidden choir in it.
        Murray Schafer already suggested making sound reserves, I propose that we should put sticks in the ground with notes on them pointing out the music you can find in the present soundscape. Off course this changes over time, so an app or online map would be better, but an unknowing passer-by could stop and be moved by sound.

        Lookout Points are so twentieth-century... Standing in one place being told where to look... While Listening Fields are spread in a large acoustic arena in which you can choose your point-of-ear, but can always be surprised by a sound from behind.
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    sergio ianni

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    Oct 11 2011: Hello Julian; do you think it would be possible to teach kids to listen in a better way? Would you do some lessons that could be shown on Khan Academy or Youtube? I would be happy to translate them in italian if you think they won't lose effectiveness when transalated. Of course I would like to do it for free..no money involved. I am at a point in life where I think I can give people something without expecting a 'material' return.
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      Julian Treasure 200+

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      Oct 16 2011: I would be happy to discuss this Sergio. My wife is Italian, so I speak a little (ma sto imperando sempre!). Drop me an email at julian.treasure@thesoundagency.com.

  • Mike Hudgins

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    Oct 12 2011: This seems like a very large question to me but I believe it is rooted in the value we place on people. I hope it is more than simply finding a quiet place, I see it as making a conscious effort to value another person. We are becoming a society based on promiscuity in all things, with emotional promiscuity having the largest impact. We seem to long for immediate gratification for ourselves with the smallest amount of effort. If we can teach the real, inherent value of people then conscious listening will simply 'be', regardless of the amount of ambient noise around me, if I truly value others I will listen.
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      Julian Treasure 200+

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      Oct 16 2011: Yes Mike, that is a huge part of this. Whether it's cause or effect of conscious listening matters little... the beneficial outcome seems to be universally accepted in this TED conversation and all the comments from my talk. This is the cause for optimism: it appears that there is a massive untapped desire for better listening. I am planning a project for 2012 to take this movement much wider, possibly another book: my current book Sound Business focuses on using sound well in business, which is the other half of the equation in my overall vision, to create a world that sounds beautiful.

  • Priya Soni

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    Oct 12 2011: I think this is a really interesting topic -- and agree that listening has become increasingly difficult, but processing what is heard, interpreting the voice is far more difficult. Listening may be likened not to an act (an active function), but to the mode of processing. Particularly, processing thought . Listening is primarily a "process" and this is were the difficult lies. Can we ever "listen" if we never process what was said? and can we ever process? i.e. is the process of listening ever complete. What we listen to essentially never leaves us ( at least until the process is complete).

    We listen to only what we have processed, and this is not necessarily listening to what was said. That is not to say that all listening is generically ego-centric, but simply that it is a selective process. The 21st century -- a world propelled into modernity, obscured by media, sound and technology-- a society which makes full use of this reality that "listening" operates within. A reality which in many ways, we ourselves have constructed. We "listen" then, only to our interpretations of what we hear. The mind becomes the ear in many ways.

  • Mss Turtle

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    Oct 14 2011: Not sure if we should see this as only about noise and listening by its meaning as a word. In my view, it is about mind switch, change of perception and behavior. We all can hear when our brains get the signals and when our heart pay attention then we can get the message! The heart whispers and sometimes this is the listening skill we miss the most.
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      Julian Treasure 200+

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      Oct 16 2011: Take a look at the distinction I make in the talk about listening positions... heart listening is important in several of these, but not all. for example, listening to an academic lecture or a teacher is probably hampered, not helped, by engaging the heart too much.

  • Allan Macdougall

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    Oct 14 2011: Forgive me if this has already been covered, but I think that listening is multi-sensory - not just through sounds - but also touch, smell and even taste.

    For instance, the exciting atmosphere of a live concert is multi-sensory. Listening to that same music on a hi-fi is less likely to stimulate excitement - more likely it would elicit a singular emotional reaction to what is endemic in the music itself.

    There have been occasions where I have listened to a band playing on a hi-fi and have not enjoyed it at all - yet on seeing them play live, enjoyed every second of it. I then go back to my hi-fi and listen to that same band playing with almost the same enjoyment as I had at the live performance.

    My listening changed in response to the ways in which the music has been reproduced.

    I wonder if a correlation exists between our listening responses to live/recorded music ,and speaking to real people/speaking to 'electronic representations' of people? Watching and responding to facial expressions and body language of other people, absorbing the sense of place where the conversation is taking place, is as multi-sensory and exciting as a live musical performance.

    I also know that my own conversational and listening styles are completely different and the interaction feels 'hollow' when using electronic media.

    I suppose the upshot is that we have evolved to interact and listen to live human beings using all the senses we possess.
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      Julian Treasure 200+

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      Oct 16 2011: I completely agree. This is part of Murray Schafer's full definition of schizophonia, the dislocate between what we hear and what we see that arises from recorded or transmitted sound that's divorced from the other sensory stimuli. There are many cross-modal effects (interactions between the senses) that affect our total perception, and listening is absolutely altered by what we see, smell, feel and taste. Google the McGurk effect to get one great example.

  • James Kindler 10+

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    Oct 15 2011: I think you must quiet your mind to listen or actively listen. I work with the mentally ill and the most important thing you can do is listen to them. I also have a mental illness myself and like to be heard. However, I've been trained to listen first, ask if I understood them correctly and then speak. Nobody likes to be talked or over or have someone texting while they are talking. I don't want to lose the art of listening, it's how I learn from others, it's a combination of words spoken, body gestures, facial expressions, tones of voice and so on. our new way of communicating is cold and easily misread. I also do public speaking for a living along with training, there is nothing like being in a room full of people with their undivided attention. People often comment or write something on what I spoke about so I know they were listening and it's a good feeling to be heard.

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    Kymberlaine Banks

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    Oct 12 2011: I appreciate the idea of listening for the quieter things, we can only do that if we're intentional about listening. Planning to start to practice your suggestion of 3 minutes of as close to silence as possible daily, thanks Julian.

  • garima dahima

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    Oct 12 2011: ..Aware listening..being present is difficult for more than 90 % of the world’s population...and to accept sincerely...listening is easier but understanding the thought heard in the same manner is more difficult..We can make any person hear us...whatever we want..by many ways...by talking the way he/she is interested...by talking about them (this aspect interest ....... people)...by talking about their interest areas...but more difficult is making the person understand the same way you have said...one can use the best suitable word required for the them to be talked about...but do you think the person will get you in the same way...In my daily life I meet many people who show the readiness to hear but lack of understanding to be understood...they are full of their own perception which they feel is right...they are not ready to discuss rather boost or pretend...Sir...as you said how I can contribute to this aspect is through meditation...I insist while I organize seminar for parents and teachers to try different techniques of meditation with primary kids....teens ... before they start their class... I feel when meditation will become a part of education the conscious listening will appear...
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    Julian Treasure 200+

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    Oct 10 2011: Thanks to everyone for engaging and for some brilliant thoughts and questions... I have to leave in a few minutes but this conversation will be active for a week, until Sunday night, and I will be coming back often to check in and respond to your comments. Keep on posting!

    • Linda Amitrano

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      Oct 10 2011: Let me know when where how you will implement the teaching of listening; I must be there... I have so many thoughts on this topic.

  • cheryl dearborne

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    Oct 10 2011: Listening is very important. I believe that we often think we are alone in our thoughts, we think we are special or that we are strange. If we take time to really listen to others we can understand that we collectively deal with the same things, have similar thoughts, similar intuitions. When you really listen to someone you don;t just hear their words, you hear their intent and we can start to relate to one another differently. LIfe would change tremendously if we were all less self-involved and really dedicated ourselves to connecting with others without worrying if you will have the chance to talk and to be present in the moment when someone is saying something to you, then we would be in much better shape.
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      Julian Treasure 200+

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      Oct 10 2011: Exactly. The thrilling thing for me at the moment is the huge response to my talk, which tells me there is a need in us all to listen, and to be listened to. this is important, and it's a largely unmet need in the modern world - getting more so with every extra smartphone, tablet, laptop and iPod we buy. What does everyone think about technology and listening?

      • Andrea Lopez-Portillo

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        Oct 10 2011: Like anything, you have to sort through the noise and what is relevant (although this is different to everyone). But the accessibility and simple sharing of information through makes it hard to sort through, you really need to make an effort.

      • Linda Amitrano

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        Oct 10 2011: I listen to TED TALKS... even a bit more than I listen to weekly White House videos...
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        Mary Gutteridge

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        Oct 10 2011: Technology opens up the potential for listening to a much wider audience. The elements of listening and really hearing what is being said or given are the same. The volume requires the same culling and caring as listening in a physical presence.

      • Nancy Aronson

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        Oct 10 2011: See Socrates position on literacy in Plato's Phaedrus. Age-old question.

    • Sufiya Patel

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      Oct 10 2011: Cheryl, I fully agree with you about the importance of listening. I think the challenge is how do we train this muscle and listen effectively? I am someone who pays a lot attention to my communication- both listening and speaking but even I struggle to be present fully, instead being pre-occupied with my concerns all of the time. Others have never really focussed on any aspect of their communication and not only do not know how to listen but also struggle to get their point across. Do you have any suggestions? What has been your experience?
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        Mita Radhakrishnan

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        Oct 10 2011: Dear Sufiya, it is a muscle, or rather two, or rather 2 on each ear, so 4 in total.... these can indeed be trained to listen better! Dr. Alfred Tomatis found that we listen not just with our ears but with our entire bodies, and in addition to air conduction, sound is also conducted thru the bones of the skull. If someone has a particularly sensitive point/frequency on her/his bone conduction, s/he will have a very hard time to focus and listen..... if someone's 'bone conduction' is uniformly more sensitive than their 'air conduction' they will remain self-absorbed and in their own world, and will have a hard time listening to others in general.... listening to oneself is very important but not at the expense of listening to the outer world.....
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          Julian Treasure 200+

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          Oct 10 2011: I think Tomatis's work is very interesting, if not uncontroversial. His life, too. One of his conclusions is that high frequency sound charges up our neurology and helps us to be present, while low frequencies discharge it and zone people out. When you think about bass-heavy music like rap and reggae and where it comes from, that thesis seems intuitively credible.

        • Sufiya Patel

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          Oct 10 2011: Thanks for the input Mita and your comments Julian.

          I think everyone knows how important it is to listen but I do think we should also look at the how. This is so often left out of commentary and discussion. My own way of listening better is simply to stop multi-tasking (and this is why being in a busy city like London makes it hard to listen well- you always seem to be surrounded by lots of sounds so by default you are multi-tasking just by listening!)
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        Colleen Steen 200+

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        Oct 11 2011: Sufiya,
        You say you are often pre-occupied with your own concerns, and therefor not fully engaged with a conversation? We have a choice regarding what we think about at any given time. How about putting your own concerns aside when you want to be fully present with someone in conversation?

        Conversations provide information about ourselves and others. We are like mirrors, constantly reflecting information back and forth. I would not deny myself the opportunity to be totally engaged in a conversation, because I would be missing something. Being fully present in the moment is a gift I give myself. Perhaps if you had this idea in your heart and mind it would help you be more present in the moment?

        • Sufiya Patel

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          Oct 11 2011: Hi Colleen,

          Thank you for your comments. I just re-read my comment and I guess it wan't totally accurate in how I stated my point, however, your observations are still valid.

          My point really is that I am someone who has done some active work on listening better, precisely for the reason you make about being engaged and opening yourself up to something new. Despite this, I still find there are times when I am not a good listener, when the focus is elsewhere (sometimes just because of external factors). If I am struggling, what do we do with people who pay no mindful attention to listening? What are the practical things we can do? This is where I think Julian's work comes in and I am firmly of the view that this learning needs to happen as early in out lives as possible.

          My point about multi-tasking is that I have discovered that it stops me being present, so now I do one thing and give my attention to it fully wherever possible. This has improved the way I listen as it means I am strengthening the muscle to focus on one thing much more.
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        Colleen Steen 200+

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        Oct 11 2011: Hi Sufiya,
        The only thing we can "do with people who pay no mindful attention to listening" is model good listening skills, and if we are comfortable enough with the person, we can ask him/her to be more attentive. I agree...the earlier we learn, the better. I also agree that multi-tasking prevents us from being present, so focusing on one thing at a time is a gift to ourselves:>)
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    Julian Treasure 200+

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    Oct 10 2011: So what does the TED community think about our T - technology - and listening? People engaged in virtual conversations seem to become oblivious to their real surroundings - I spoke about this in my talk on sound and health, and used Murray Schafer's word schizophonia to describe the dislocate between this virtual sound and the world that's actually around us.

    Can we use more and more technology and still listen?

    • Deb Seidman (Munitz)

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      Oct 10 2011: Lately I have been having serious problems with my 17 year old and listening. He can't stop texting or being on facebook. His constant need to return to his technologically based threads is ruining his ability to listen. Technology has become an epidemic killer of listening. How does one deal with this as a parent? With 5 people in the house its really difficult to coordinate moments when everyone is away from a TV, a computer and a cell phone. Advice on this would really be welcome.
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        Julian Treasure 200+

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        Oct 10 2011: A billion parents of teenagers groan in sympathy!

        Teaching him the importance of listening in relationship, with people and with the world around him, and just getting across the sheer value of being present through listening (like to girls!!!) might help. It is a real uphill struggle and if anyone has some great experience on this one it would be a wonderful gift to post it here. I too have a 17 year old son!

        The best suggestions I have are to become very good at it yourself, and to book times when everyone lays down their technology and talks. Maybe meal times?

        • Deb Seidman (Munitz)

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          Oct 10 2011: Mealtimes are all that seems to be left. But yes, I am simply not putting up with it anymore. I think its one thing for kids to be taught listening. They just don't seem to do it all the time. They need to think you're serious before they put their listening ears on. I find that I have to constantly point out when I need their attention before I open my mouth. It's a real dilemma.
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          Ellie Lawrence

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          Oct 10 2011: :) booking times to talk and to listen is one way. However, I find that leading by example, in the moment, can be just as effective. For instance, when my son or my brother pop in unannounced, needing to talk, I will say to them "I'll just finish up here, it will take me one minute, and then I can give you my full attention. Go and put the kettle on, will you?". It just sends the simple message that I'm willing to put all else aside for them. I then leave all bits of technology (computer, mobile, home phone) in another room and join them at the table in the kitchen.

          Children, and adults, all learn the skill of communication and the art of listening best by our own actions.

        • Jennifer Wheaton

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          Oct 10 2011: It is a challenge; I have found that providing an opportunity for teenagers and even young children to respond to what they just heard by asking a question about it has been most effective. And then we, in turn, pause, wait for their response and listen as well. Creating space and opportunity for connection and reciprocity seems to inspire deeper listening. I do agree that modelling real listening is the best first step.

        • Chris Shaddock

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          Oct 10 2011: Listening is a choice. It starts with a mindset. It is a lost art. In my opinion true listening is a heart felt experience that begins with "listening" to your own inner voice. It takes practice. As you better care for you, by understanding your own needs, you can better listen to and care for the needs of others. I suggest being careful creating any additional "scheduled" activities unless you have everyones buy in first. If not you may cause greater frustrations. Try this thought with your teenager: In the end the participants have to "want" to be in the moment and share in growing the relationship. Still... quiet... calm... awareness... is a learned skill no different then driving a car only more important because relationships are paramount to any success.

      • Greg Lightbourn

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        Oct 10 2011: Yes "no screen" times are a great idea...
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      Mike Lewinski

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      Oct 10 2011: I find that when I'm reading or writing I have to give full attention to the words on the screen. I like certain post rock bands like Explosions in the Sky and Pelican because their music has no lyrics to distract the language processing in my mind. The musical part of my mind can listen to that, and isn't otherwise disturbed by non-verbal sounds in my environment (like the crow cawing in the park next door as I type this).

      I'm engaged in an ongoing practice to improve lucid dreaming. During normal waking hours I periodically engage all of my senses at the same time as fully as possible so that I'm aware of bodily sensations, sounds, smells and sights all at once. I find that I can't maintain that full awareness for long, because my mind wanders off. I hope that by continuing the practice the skill will improve.

      I hear what sounds like a jet going overhead as I move to click Submit...

    • nicolle walsh

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      Oct 10 2011: It is possible to use more technology and be able to listen, but in order to listen instead of just hearing, one would need a more disciplined mind.
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      Mary Gutteridge

      • +2
      Oct 10 2011: Teenage son here, know the problem well.
      However...technology has allowed me to have visual and vocal communication with coworkers, friends and family around the world on a daily basis. I even attended my fathers funeral last year virtually. The only thing I could not share was the senses of touch and smell. I was listening and listened to.
      Listening via technology is different for sure and although it is not quite as good, in every way as being physically present, it is a very valuable tool when used wisely.
      I contend that it is the spirit and mindfulness of the listening that is the essence of the task.
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        Julian Treasure 200+

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        Oct 10 2011: Point taken Mary, though I do believe it's possible to listen in both the virtual and physical domains simultaneously. we don't have to leave this world altogether to text, IM or talk on the phone!
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      Colleen Steen 200+

      • +1
      Oct 11 2011: Julian,
      You ask..."can we use more and more technology and still listen?"

      As with anything in life, we can balance our use of technology at any time. Recognizing the importance of listening in relationships, leading by example, being fully present with a conversation, making the time, sending the message that we're honestly willing to fully engage in conversation by putting other tasks aside, creating space and opportunity, are all choices we can make in our daily lives. Technology is a valuable tool, and I agree with Mary, that it is our mindfulness and intent that may change the dynamic of our communications. It's important to know ourselves, and know how we can create the space and time we want to have for ourselves.

      One tiny step I've taken recently is to ask people NOT to call me when they are driving a vehicle. If it's an emergency, of course I'll take the call, but I no longer engage in conversations when people are driving. First of all, there are too many accidents, injuries and deaths caused when folks are texting, using computers or cell phones while driving. Secondly, they are not fully present for a conversation with me, and I can feel that. My time and energy are important to me, and I make the choice as to how I use my time. Talking with someone who is engaged in operating a motor vehicle is not enjoyable.
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    Debra Smith 100+

    • +1
    Oct 10 2011: Julian, I was raised in a home where the radio was tuned to talk radio most of the time. As I aged, because i was not exposed to music, I preferred books on tape when I drive. In fact, I can only listen to instrumental music if I am reading or trying to write or the words of the songs highjack my attention. Can you comment on this phenomenon?
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      Julian Treasure 200+

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      TED AttendeeTEDx Organizer
      Oct 11 2011: I am sure you are not alone Debra. Check out Oliver Sachs's fine book Musicophilia for case studies of many more extreme relationships with music, from the man who got struck by lightening and became an obsessive concert pianist (having never played before) to the woman who is physically sick when she hears a particular type of music. I also find background music very distracting in public places: part of my brain is always listening to it... which after all was the intention of those who made it!

  • Ryan Marin

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    Oct 10 2011: Do you think the lack of listening skills is what ultimately leads to the sort of civil unrest that we are seeing play out in the "occupy" movements around the world? And dont those movements at least somewhat prove that we can listen and coexist with technology since Twitter and social media have been so vital to those movements?
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      Julian Treasure 200+

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      Oct 10 2011: I have no doubt that not being listened to for a long time and in a determined way (eg by a state) creates a pressure effect and this has certainly been in play over the last few years in many arenas, not least the Arab Spring countries. Politicians are not known for their listening, more for their talking!
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    caro dateo

    • +2
    Oct 10 2011: I'm really enjoying your work featured on TED. From my business experience I also believe listening needs to be repurposed. With so many pressures on us to act quickly, people are refusing to disconnect from their various gadgets and therefore are never really listening consciously ever. Last time I had an office, I put my phone on one table and my laptop on another so i was forced to break away from one to engage with the other. It's not just teen kids ignoring their parents; parents are listening to their kids with half an ear, and that's not counting the mental dialogue that is often occurring in one's mind, adding further "noise". I'd love to participate in brainstorming teaching listening skills... keep talking and sounding off... thanks
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    Patrick Ellz

    • +1
    Oct 10 2011: Everything is too loud. People have become accustomed to blocking out background "noise", i.e. if someone lives in a city they don't hear traffic because they are accustomed to it. If someone is whispering, people will try harder to listen in, which causes the listener to "pay closer attention" to the details of the conversation. A conscious listening would result in much less noise pollution, a greater understanding of communications, or more awareness of the sounds that surround our environments. Nature makes beautiful music if your far from technologies buzz.
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      Julian Treasure 200+

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      Oct 11 2011: Absolutely Patrick – the exact thesis of my first TED talk, and my third, in one paragraph. My vision os a world that sounds beautiful and I believe we can achieve that with a twin strategy: get everyone listening consciously so we all start to complain about noise and create our own good sound; and show organizations that good sound is good business (which is the subject of my book Sound Business and what my company The Sound Agency does), so that the makers of most of the noise start to design with sound instead of randomly assailing us all with noise.

      If anyone's interested in the latter conversation, you can get a free chapter of my book at www.thesoundagency.com.
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    SANTHIP KANHOLY

    • +1
    Oct 10 2011: Hi Julian,

    I wanted to know your thoughts on a couple of things related to sound :-)

    1. What do you think about listening to buddhist/hindu mantras ? Some say they have experienced profound shifts in consciousness when they have listened to certain sounds /syllables etc .. What are your thoughts also on brain-wave tones/frequencies ?
    2. I listen to mp3 format .. The sleeptime audio s/w which I use also use mp3 audio. Are we really losing much by compressing the pure sound into mp3 formats ? Will that affect things a lot ?
    3. I am 25 years old now. And I am really worried if my listening to music off my ipod is going to affect my hearing 20 years down the lane. My workplace is a buzzfield of computer noise as well. Any tips ?

    Enjoyed all of your talks. Glad to see you here in TED :-)
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      Julian Treasure 200+

      • +3
      TED AttendeeTEDx Organizer
      Oct 10 2011: Good questions.

      1 There is research about the beneficial effects of meditation in general, though I am not aware of any that specifically focuses on mantras. I have had some very positive personal experiences with chant, but I don't' personally subscribe to the mystic power of one syllable. That's just an opinion!

      2 It depends entirely on the compression rate. I would happily listen to mp3 at 320kbps, or even in a pinch 192kbps for convenience (if I had to). But if you're listening below that it really does make a difference. And why would you now with storage so cheap?

      3 Do NOT listen for hours at a time, and never so loud that you can't hear someone talking to you. When you go to gigs or clubs use hearing protectors - silicon molded that attenuate by just a few dB, flat, not those nasty yellow things that just take the top end off. When you encounter excessively loud noise in the street, just walk away!
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        SANTHIP KANHOLY

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        Oct 10 2011: Thanks a lot for your answers Julian !

        1. I am into meditation and find that it helps me silence my own thoughts to listen effectively. Simply wanted to know your opinion on sound meditation :-) There is in fact some meditation techniques to allow sound to silence your thoughts within. But thank you for sharing your opinion :)

        2. THANK YOU FOR THAT ! I will be using high compression rates from now on :-)

        3. Thank you for these tips. The protectors will definitely be a part of my life .. Will reduce the music time also .. Do you think investing in an expensive noise-cancelling headphones is worth the money in the long run ? Any personal recommendations ? :-)
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          Julian Treasure 200+

          • +1
          TED AttendeeTEDx Organizer
          Oct 10 2011: I use Active Noise Cancellation (ANC) headphones a lot when traveling, especially on planes and trains. There are many good makes out there, for example Sennheiser and of course the ubiquitous Bose. The former to me sound better but the latter have excellent noise cancellation algorithms.

        • Nancy Aronson

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          Oct 10 2011: Recently, a friend told me about some New Age biz, ClearPoint?, that claims to increase meditation submersion/effects by providing a series of sounds to focus on (CDs). Their claim: something like twice as many measurable benefits of meditation in half the time, or some such thing. Trippy.
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      Mita Radhakrishnan

      • +2
      Oct 10 2011: Dear Santhip,
      - Yes, MP3s affect the sounds a LOT. Compression is a no-no. We are losing all the higher harmonics when we do that. Try to listen at least in Wav.
      - Better to use speakers or over the ear headphones rather than in the ear ones. And ALWAYS turn the volume to as low as possible. Its consistent exposure to too much sound at a high volume which will cause your ear to deteriorate.
      - there is a whole field called "nada yoga" in India which is a study of how sound affects consciousness......
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        SANTHIP KANHOLY

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        Oct 11 2011: Thanks Mita .. Will try to get WAV as much as I can .. Will also try to listen to higher bitrate mp3s..

        Heard about Nada yoga .. Thanks for sharing .. :-)
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    Andrea Pisera 20+

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    TED Translator
    Oct 11 2011: I think that the relationship between technology and listening, and the lack of listening, is that we lose the essential elements of connection between humans by using those devices constantly. We lose the personal contact: face-to-face, eye contact, heart-to-heart connection, breath, and tones. The connection is rational and everything happens quickly. A conscious listening means that two people are rational and emotional connected. It means self-examination and self-awareness.
    It happens when you are connected with someone “in real”, when you take the time and space for both in favor for the connection without rational purpose. Of course, it’s worth it!
    I can’t remember where I read this, but it was illuminating, “To listen is to have integrity and to be conscious of the integrity of others, of being present to the “global” field of awareness".

  • Rachael Lowe

    • 0
    Oct 11 2011: active listening discerns the essence of verbal and non-verbal interaction. active listening feels the sub-text and the current of intent behind the words - the energy behind the words. words most often to not reflect reality. a person's sense of their reality can be detected in their movements and their sound. trauma, pain, joy, love - all strong emotions - are stored in the body as a somatic response. listening is about watching too. creating space around, above, below the words being said - observing somatic response - can indicate what is real in a human interaction. active listening can provide a very precious opportunity to hear, see and meet the person in their reality. active listening gives you, the respondee, a very precious opportunity to respond to the very heart and soul of that person - if judged (through intuition and active listening) that the person will hear your response. hearts and souls can be seen, met and elevated through deep and active listening. this brings about a change in consciousness through deep connection.
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