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Happiness
All people want to be happy , no one is happy because we can't be happy , so why strive to be happy ?: this is the most prominent source of pain (the striving) , actually I think is the single one ........... in fact do we have an escape : can we stop striving for happiness ? I don't think so .
What do you think ?
Closing Statement from E G
Now, I think that we all are more aware of what we think about happiness than before this conversation , that's a good start............. good luck everybody.
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Thomas Jones 100+
I have noticed when someone "presents" a problem we try to fix it (I'm doing it now) ... sometimes the problem does not need to be fixed. Maybe it cannot be fixed for various reasons (physically impossible, resistance, lack of skill, timing, etc.)
Eduard seems highly functional and, in spite of his claims to the contrary, he seems to be experiencing what the rest of us would call happiness; he's engaged, has a sense of humour, and so on.
He also has a very well defined view of the world and, in particular, "Happiness."
With modifications (that you can check below) he has agreed that this is a reasonable accounting of his position:
- You do not know what Happiness is.
- You do know what Happiness isn't.
- No one knows what Happiness is.
- Happiness is not possible in this world.
- Happiness is possible only in the next world.
- You are unwilling to consider that Happiness might be possible in "this world."
- Your view is universally true and any dissenting view is universally false.
He has also asserted that for him Happiness is "an absolute."
In other words he has elevated Happiness to the realm of "Deity" - it exists as an absolute unattainable-in-this-world ideal much as religious people view God, heaven, and so on.
As this is a voluntary perception - he chooses this point of view - there is essentially nothing that can be said that will alter his perception. It is not causing him harm. It provides him with a sense of "place" ("this" world) and a sense of destiny (the "next" world) and a sense of uniqueness and identity (he is special and understands the nature of Happiness better than anyone - including us. He is "different" than the rest of us and so stands out as special.)
I doubt very much he will give any of this up just because we want to "fix" him.
He's not really broken anyway.
Mark Meijer 100+
On the other hand, maybe I'm really doing this to fix myself. I don't know. I can't help but notice that I've been writing enormous posts on this... Maybe Eduard somehow did me a favor. I can only hope it was mutual.
Thomas Jones 100+
You make an excellent point as well: We learn in the exchange.
I think, for me, being aware of both possibilities - helping and learning - makes it possible to evaluate what my motives are in any given exchange. Usually, it's a combination of both.
When I feel I have learned all that I can; and offered all that I can, I (usually) withdraw ... as I have done in discussing happiness with Eduard.
I don't think I will learn any more by reading his posts. And I don't think I can offer him any more than I have offered him.
And I enjoyed the interaction.
He has an interesting perspective.
Colleen Steen 500+
I believe we are all students and teachers in this earth school:>)
E G 10+
It was.
Colleen Steen 500+
Since you addressed your note to "others who are responding to Eduard", and I am one of the "others", I offer a response.
Personally, I have no intention of "fixing" anyone or anything. Eduard said in at least a couple posts that he wanted to be happy, and he does not believe happiness exists. I, and in my perception others, who have commented on this thread have offered some ideas as to how we all can reach a state of happiness or contentment.
Thomas Jones 100+
How about we change the word "fix" to "help?"
I agree with you, there have been many excellent ideas ... I've learned a lot ... and I'm not suggesting anyone quit. I'm just pointing out Eduard might not be willing to accept the help (well, to be sure, he is not!) Nor does he think he needs it. His perspective - as I am sure you have picked up - is we need his help.
If we expect our input, however we describe it, to change another person's point of view, after 188 posts or so, it might be time to modify (change) our expectations.
Colleen Steen 500+
There are many practices, methods, and philosophies that can contribute to, enhance, reinforce, or create happiness in our lives, and many of them have been presented on this thread. It's been an interesting exploration:>)
Thomas Jones 100+
Within reason I agree with you - happiness is a choice.
(Why I say "within reason" is there are certain mental illnesses which we cannot "choose" ourselves out of. We can get used to lots of things - poverty, pain, loss, etc. - we cannot "get used" to mental illness.)
As to happiness being a choice, I don't think we'll get an agreement on that point from Eduard, do you?
Sky F
Colleen Steen 500+
That being said, have you ever noticed that some people with a diagnosed mental challenge are some of the happiest, most content people?
I have no expectations of Eduard. In my perception, we are sharing information and those of us who want to use the information will use it....or not.
Thomas Jones 100+
I agree there is no need to reach agreement. (If you read that in just ... the ... right ... way it sounds kind of funny.)
For me, the goal is understanding. Agreement happens. Or it doesn't.
Capital "H" ... good idea.
[I edited one of my comments to conform to the Eduardian-Fenton Happiness convention - see above.]
Frans Kellner 100+
If happiness is a choice as you said it is necessary that there are options to choose from.
Apparently this isn't always self-evident.
In a program I saw a young Londoner woman that was unhappy and regularly sunk into a deep depression volunteered to live three months with the Himba people in Namibia.
At first she complained on everything she saw, about the men that were doing nothing and the hard work women did. She resisted to listen and to cooperate, cried constantly.
At the end she could cry of happiness and was full of love for those people.
She looked back at her past as a nightmare and had learned laughing and loving for all those women she lived with were unshakably happy.
Here is a detail of the program.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3gIZu3W9OA&feature=fvsr
Colleen Steen 500+
I agree...there are always options. I watched the video.
My response, based on only the short video, is that it would be challenging for any person to be in a situation like that where she did not understand the language, they dressed her in their traditional clothing, which was strange to her, and the people were constantly laughing at her. I don't think laughter always indicates happiness, and when one does not understand the culture or language, it may be confusing.
I'm glad that it worked out well for her. One thing I've noticed in my travels, is that people in poorer, more simple cultures (cultures with less development, technology, etc.) often seem to be more content in their lives, while people in more complex cultures (western cultures) seem less happy/content. I believe there is a TED talk addressing this, which I watched quite awhile ago, and I cannot remember the title. As I recall, the topic discussion was about whether or not more choices cause us to be less content.
E G 10+
Colleen Steen 500+
I say happiness is a choice because that has been my life experience. In spite of challenges that could be debilitating, I have chosen to see the light at the end of the tunnel, the opportunity to learn from each and every experience, the benifits that are derived from facing the challenges with peace, contentment and love in my heart...to me that is happiness. I have made many choices to move beyond the pain and challenge, and find happiness. That is simply a choice I make, and I realize that it might not work for everyone.
E G 10+
Why are so many people unhappy if the happiness is really a choice ?
Colleen Steen 500+
I realize you don't mean any hurt by what you say...nor do I. We simply have different perspectives and I'm not the only one who experiences happiness in this way.
Why are so many people unhappy?
There are a lot of wounded people in our world...people who have faced and are still facing unbelievable hardships and painful challenges. There is no question about that.
There is trauma and fear in our world, and that causes unhappiness. There is also beauty, joy, kindness, respect, consideration, compassion, empathy, contentment, and peace...LOVE.....in various pockets of our world.
When we are in a wounded place in ourselves, it is difficult to see or experience happiness and contentment. To feel contentment, we have to move beyond the woundedness, either emotionally, or physically, or idealy, both. To move out of our woundedness is a choice. It could be a choice as individuals, and it can also be a choice on a global level.
Debra Smith 200+
Thomas Jones 100+
How about this: When you get some more thumbs, you can assign them randomly to my more mundane future contributions.
[We have thumb quotas?]
Debra Smith 200+
Thomas Jones 100+
Not yet.
Amily shaw 10+
Its quite impressive to see how much efforts you guys are taking (whatever the word is "fix" "help " " conncet" "respond")I feel happy just looking at the whole thing- people care about each other. what a beautiful day!
Colleen Steen 500+
People have reasons to believe what s/he believes and the beautiful thing about this interaction, is that people care about each other, which reinforces happiness in my mind and heart:>)
Younus Ali
- You do not know what Happiness is.
It depends on person to person, how h/she percieves Happiness.
- You do know what Happiness isn't.
Again the same answer for this.
- No one knows what Happiness is.
Who knows about everyone?
- Happiness is not possible in this world.
We don't believe in im-possibilities much.
- Happiness is possible only in the next world.
Who knows there would be another 'World'? Might there would be another dimensions.
- You are unwilling to consider that Happiness might be possible in "this world."
Happiness can be found in any moment, depending on the state of minds.
- Your view is universally true and any dissenting view is universally false.
Universal truths are applicable for all, provided they (people) should eliminate inner grudjes.
E G 10+
''Who knows about everyone?'' I do believe me.
"Who knows there would be another 'World'? Might there would be another dimensions.'' Idk this but I don't have to.
A fake :''Happiness can be found in any moment, depending on the state of minds.'' but if you want I would like to know your argumentation for it.
What I said is applicable for all.
By the way I don't mean any hurt by what I'm about to say but you've just come and perhaps think you have the answers , you don't know so far from what you wrote what I'm talking about what Thomas said are just some ideas of mine the reason for which I have them it's don't know by you but you can know it if you wanna have a conversation.
Colleen Steen 500+
What you say, is NOT "applicable for all". I accept what you say and believe it to be YOUR opinion. It is not mine, nor does it seem to be the opinion of others on this thread.
That seems to be the main argument on this thread. What you say Eduard is YOUR truth. It is, for whatever reason, what you believe, and I respect your beliefs. However, they are NOT the beliefs of everyone.
Younus Ali
Only your's opinion can't do justice with everyone's thinking patterns, as Colleen Steen said
E G 10+
I understand you think that what I said here is my truth but I don't believe it , I can't have my truths, the truths are universal and applicable for all , if what I said is rational and can't be denied then it should be the truth for all as well as if what you say is rational and can't be denied should be truth for all .
Colleen Steen 500+
What you say in this recent post makes sense....look at your words and read the comments on this thread carefully Eduard.
You write..."if what I said is rational and can't be denied then it should be the truth for all as well as if what you say is rational and can't be denied should be truth for all".
What you have presented over and over again on this thread Eduard, is the idea that happiness does not exist. Has there been anyone on this thread who agrees with you?
Or have several people been offering comments to support the idea that happiness IS possible? Do your own evaluation of the information on this thread with an open heart and mind. I care about you:>)
Younus Ali