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why is islam grossly misunderstood??
why is islam grossly misunderstood??
why is people who doesnt know much about islam so keen in attacking islam?
why an event in islamic countries more focused than others by our media??
why is not prophet muhammed considered great??
Thomas Jones 100+
"A Saudi woman was sentenced Tuesday to be lashed 10 times with a whip for defying the kingdom's prohibition on female drivers, the first time a legal punishment has been handed down for a violation of the longtime ban in the ultraconservative Muslim nation."
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Faiz,
Are you still with us?
Charlie Shread
Krizstian - I did care, because I was interested in your comment, so I respect Thomas for responding to my curiosity.
I also have respect for your opinions, but I would respect you more if you didn't say things like "you are not worthy." There's nothing to be gained by belittling other human beings. If there was anything worth learning from the TED community, it would be that we should be trying to help each learn new things and understand the world more, instead of cutting conversations short with ego trumpeting.
Thanks.
Mr Kebabsoup
Nobody is all dark, nobody is perfect, we all have to learn to live with each other, and that's also true on the Internet.
Peace.
Andrea Morisette Grazzini 30+
Here, here.
Andrea
Thomas Jones 100+
This is from a article printed today, Sept 21, 2011, on Yahoo!
"Suspected [Muslim] Sunni extremists opened fire on Shiite Muslim pilgrims travelling by bus through southwest Pakistan on their way to in Iran [sic], killing 26 people, officials and survivors said."
Muslims shooting Muslims.
This is the first comment written by a reader under the article:
"want to see what islam will do for the places its going to? just look where its been and is dominating. afganistan, pakistan, nigeria, iran, iraq and so on. what does islam offer to the world? really?? what?" - Scott
It is not surprising that Islam is grossly misunderstood.
Charlie Shread
1) Political agendas from the West
2) Media profit goals
Comment deleted
Charlie Shread
http://cafr1.com/Terror.html
Thomas Jones 100+
Charlie, I do believe your assertions address only a small, though important, part of the problem.
Islam seems to be grossly misunderstood within Islam itself; and in communities that have little or no access to media; and in countries that have no political agenda insofar as Islam is concerned. For example, in the villages in rural Kenya, where my friend Maurice Kokayo lives, Islam is misunderstood.
My view, which I think is also "partial" is that Islam is grossly misunderstood because of the actions of fanatical Muslims. The "source" of our misunderstanding is their actions. The source of their actions, is their belief. So the ultimate source of the gross misunderstanding is "Muslims."
The rest of us just amplify the misunderstanding and perhaps, as you say, use it for political gain or to provide "content" for our "news" media, and so on.
Andrea Morisette Grazzini 30+
Your points are well-argued.
Andrea
Comment deleted
Comment deleted
Charlie Shread
I would also be interested in any constructive counter points.
Thanks.
Thomas Jones 100+
http://www.ted.com/conversations/5165/a_disproportionate_few_wealthy.html?c=309514
The "gist" of Krisztián's argument was that socialism is inherently violent.
The request I referred to has been deleted from the conversation but it still exists in "the cloud."
You can probably find it if you do a search for it.
Krisztián Pintér 200+
Andrea Morisette Grazzini 30+
How dissonant that in a dialogue about polarized beliefs you perpetuate polarizing behaviors by demonstrating it.
Andrea
Thomas Jones 100+
Interesting, isn't it?
When others do it, it is obvious; when we do it ourselves, not so much.
Essentially you are saying you do not appreciate the dialogue. And I respect that.
That is what I am doing too. I do not appreciate Krisztián's propensity to drop little bon mots like: "wow, you've managed to be wrong and meaningless at the same time."
If it was "once in a while" fine ... but it's not; he does it quite often.
I agree the dialogue between Krisztián and I, might be socially awkward but I choose to engage in it anyway. My exchanges with Krisztián do not bother me in the least.
If they bother you, I suggest you ignore them.
The "juicy bits" get deleted by the administrators soon enough anyway. But interestingly not, "wow, you've managed to be wrong and meaningless at the same time."
What did that contribute to the discussion?
Mr Kebabsoup
I'm living in Europe, and from here, the image of Islam shown in the media is totally biased. Of course, the media in general only talk about things that are going wrong. So whenever we hear about Islam here, it's all about intolerance, sex discrimination, scary fundamentalists, etc... And I perfectly know it's biased because I have Muslim friends and their lives are exemplary. They are the most respectable, rational and compassionate people in my entourage.
On the other side, these things we see on TV are not all made up. Problably they are inflated to look even uglier, but they are here and they exist. And it's as Debra said, I think the other normal Muslims don't condemn these fundamentalists strongly enough. Of course as I said, it's also our media's fault not to try to make your voice heard.
I think there are efforts to be made on both side. And also, don't be too afraid. It's not because they are saying trash on TV that everybody in the west believes that trash.
I like to say that the smaller dogs are often those who like to bark the more.
Thomas Jones 100+
The fact that fundamentalists might kill them if they spoke out probably dampens their enthusiasm.
[I am not being facetious; knowing that some religious fanatic halfway around the world can command "the faithful" to kill you if you say or do "the wrong thing" has a less that salutary effect on people, I am sure. What's worse, is knowing that some "nut jobs" will actually take the command seriously and act on it if they can. This, I think, leads to a degree of misunderstanding.]
Mr Kebabsoup
And it is not.
Thomas Jones 100+
"It is the duty of every Muslim to reject nation states and only recognize one united Islamic Ummah ["community" or "nation"]"
These excerpts are from a mainstream Muslim website (presumably that has the intention of eliminating gross misunderstanding.)
"The Khilafah is the name given to the Islamic system of government. When we say that Muslims must establish Khilafah, we mean that Muslims must establish an Islamic state, with an Islamic system of government ruled by the Islamic Shariah. ...
"Muslims must perform the bay'ah [oath of allegiance] on the Khaleefa ["Leader"], which means to select him as a leader and to trust him to rule by the word of Allah (SWT). This means that the Khaleefah must implement Islamic laws, the Shariah, in all the lands under the Khilafah. The Khilafah must include all nations in the world where the population is predominantly Muslim, and all Islamic Shariah laws must take effect in these lands with respect to all issues in the society. ...
"Islam came as a uniting religion, meant to unite all of mankind under one rule, the rule of Allah (SWT*)...
"In order to be true Muslims, we must follow the commands of Allah (SWT) and his messenger (pbuh), and we must unite ourselves into a single nation and a single Ummah under one leader...
"Not only is it a religious duty on every single Muslim [to establish Khilafah], but it will also lead to economic prosperity, justice, peace and security for all Muslim communities living throughout the world...."
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Essentially if, say, Kenya, or America become "predominantly" Muslim, the existing government should be replaced by Khilafah with a single Leader ["Khaleefa"] who may live in another part of the world (as there are no "nation states," there is only a single "Ummah" (Muslim community.)
This scenario, I think, might, unwittingly, contribute to gross misunderstanding.
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*SWT = Subhaanahu Wa Ta'Ala = most glorified, the most high
kaka dada
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/uk/For-UK-Asians-polygamy-spells-state-benefits/articleshow/10014459.cms
Jason Kather 10+
Please describe the concept of Abrogation in The Koran and how "The Verse of the Sword" is viewed in this respect. Please give both Muslim views on this example for the most complete understanding.
Hamza El Fasiki
Tyler Sasabuchi
Hamza El Fasiki
Hamza El Fasiki
erm, i see your point Mr. Thomas. Non-religious people are really making a stambilg-block toward breakingh the religious ice. i can answer that, for i have no pre-knowledge on that. i may assume which is relly bad.
Hamza El Fasiki
Hamza El Fasiki
I hope you can get my point now
Hamza El Fasiki
Hamza El Fasiki
Hamza El Fasiki
Frans Kellner 100+
Andrea Morisette Grazzini 30+
Yes!
My priest Fr. Michael O'Connell, has been a leader in this sort of multi-faith leadership. He led a visit to the Holy Land, where all three religions began, with a group of leaders for all three faiths, and others from different religions, too..
This website provides a snippet of video from a documentary that was produced on their "Journey of Faith"
http://www.journeyinfaithfilms.com/cast.cfm
I very much see efforts like these and the service you mention as critical methods to promote peace. There are no more "qualified" professionals than they to bring religions together -- and most important of all, each faith's respective flocks.
Perhaps the biggest lesson they learned from the journey was the importance of relationship. For all their religious differences, and their were tensions that cropped up around these differences during their shared journey, was the power of relationship that holds the reality of "other" through even the most difficult divisions.
Many thanks, Franz, for illuminating this example.
Andrea
Debra Smith 200+
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/william_ury.html
(Out of thumbs up for you Franz but please keep sharing!)
Andrea Morisette Grazzini 30+
As-Salamu Alaykum.
And thank you for reorienting us with your wise thoughts.
Andrea
Thomas Jones 100+
Now, what can we do about the misunderstandings between the religious and the non-religious members of our one, large family?
Hamza El Fasiki
Debra Smith 200+
faiz mukthar
this talk has some answers!!
kaka dada
"why is islam grossly misunderstood??"
-- actions speak louder. suicide bombings i suppose.
"why is people who doesnt know much about islam so keen in attacking islam?'
-- because of its claim without evidence that Allah is the only one god. on the contrary Islamist has no clu about other highly developed religion.
"why an event in islamic countries more focused than others by our media??"
-- media loves to fill-up its pagers with craps.
"why is not prophet muhammed considered great??"
-- child lover.
faiz mukthar
Koran does not teach suicide bombing.why is it tagged to islam??
indian young prime minister rajiv gandhi was killed by LTTE through suicide bomber!!
Between 1980 and 2000 the largest number of suicide attacks was carried out by separatist Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam of Sri Lanka. The number of attacks conducted by LTTE was almoust double that of nine other major extremist organizations.
The tactics of the Kamikaze, a ritual act of self-sacrifice by state military forces, occurred during combat in a large scale at the end of World War II. These suicide attacks, carried out by Japanese kamikaze bombers, were used as a military tactic aimed at causing material damage in the war. In the Pacific Allied ships were attacked by kamikaze pilots who caused significant damage by flying their explosive-laden aircraft into military targets.
Suicide bombings have become a tactic in Chechnya, first being used in the conflict in 2000 when a man and a woman drove a bomb-laden truck into a Russian army base in Alkhan Kala.[15] A number of suicide attacks have occurred in Russia as a result of the Chechen conflict, ranging from the Moscow theater hostage crisis in 2002 to the Beslan school hostage crisis in 2004.[16] The 2010 Moscow Metro bombings are also believed to result from the Chechen conflict.
Rudolf Christoph Freiherr von Gersdorff intended to assassinate Adolf Hitler by suicide bomb in 1943, but was unable to complete the attack.
Modern suicide bombing as a political tool can be traced back to the assassination of Tsar Alexander II of Russia in 1881. While driving on one of the central streets of Saint Petersburg, near the Winter Palace, he was mortally wounded by the explosion of hand-made grenades and died a few hours afterwards. The Tsar was killed by a member of Narodnaya Volya, Ignacy Hryniewiecki, who died while intentionally exploding the bomb during the attack.
are these muslims??whomever does it is enemy of mankind!!
Thomas Jones 100+
Let's stay focussed: The fact that others do something - like practice suicide bombing - does not excuse the practice by Muslim or Christian fanatics (even if the Muslims or Christians do "less" of it than the "others" do) nor does pointing out others do the same thing address the question of why Islam is so grossly misunderstood.
If someone killed your mother, would it make any difference to you to find out many other people had also killed other people's mothers?
No, it wouldn't.
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You have asked us why we think Islam is grossly misunderstood. We are telling you. Accept what we say whether you agree with us or not ... we are telling you: Why WE THINK Islam is grossly misunderstood.
Isn't that what you want to know?
-----------
Faiz, why do you think Islam is grossly misunderstood??
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PS If you are going to cut and paste from Wiki, it's considered polite to say so.
faiz mukthar
sorry that i dint mention it..i had done that only i accept...
i accept the fact that whomever does suicide bombing is a crime for which they should never be forgiven i just wanted to ask that if all these groups does it why is it tagged only on with islam??
thanks sir
Thomas Jones 100+
The reason we are mentioning that Muslims carry out suicide bombings (and other such things) is because you asked us why we think Islam is grossly misunderstood.
You have defined the extent of our focus by the question you asked.
If we were discussing suicide bombing, in general, I am sure we would tag it onto other groups as well.
So, to get back on topic: Why do YOU think Islam is so grossly misunderstood?
There are some interesting answer in the conversation so far:
- Islam is not misunderstood.
It is misunderstood because of:
- the violence perpetrated by a few fanatics.
- expressions of fear from all sides (Muslims and non-Muslims, etc.)
- the way women are treated.
- Etcetera.
What do you think, Faiz?
How do you think we could resolve the misunderstanding?
I suggest you think of something other than having the whole world converting to Islam; the whole world reading the Quran; the whole world watching a video, reading a website, etc. It's not going to happen.
It's a nice idea, I suppose, to think about the whole world reading your book but be realistic ... it's just not going to happen.
So aside from the grand ideas, what do you think might help dissipate the gross misunderstanding people have about Islam?
You are a member of a minority (Islam) and you think the rest of the world misunderstands you. Your solution seems to be that the rest of the world should change ... that is, the rest of the world should make the effort to understand you.
Personally, if I was a member of a minority, I would not expect the majority to adapt to accommodate me, I would be asking myself, "What can I do do make myself better understood?"
"What can I do to eliminate or minimize this gross misunderstanding?"
So, my question to you is: What can YOU do to eliminate or minimize this gross misunderstanding?
(Now, be careful: Generally, "we" do not misunderstand you because of something we have NOT done; we misunderstand you because of something you HAVE done.)
Phillip Beaver 10+
I want to share a concern that might help Faiz respond to your question, "What can [Faiz] do to eliminate or minimize this gross misunderstanding?" He could share—give and take—speak and listen.
I am a person of faith in reality, much of which is unknown. Additionally, I am a human being and member of the community of living species, immediately, humankind.
I was born Southern Baptist and indoctrinated myself in their Bible interpretation until age 54. I am slow; it took me that long to discover that neither my mind nor heart is Southern Baptist. Before, I was trying to fulfill my mom and dad's vision. I continue to discover my preferences.
My experience did not happen only because of precious doubt I discovered in the sixth grade: A being, possessed with the self-doubt and weakness expressed by the threats in Revelations 22:18, cannot be God. Added to my long-standing precious doubt was castigation of my wife’s religion (Catholic) by my Baptist peers in a married-couples Sunday-school class.
Slowly, I became a human being—a minnow in an ocean. Each day, the joy of my status increases.
About twelve years ago, I was trying to share my discovery with two co-workers, each in private conversations-- one a PhD chemical engineer and the other a PhD chemist.
In both cases, their only response was, “Phil, sooner or later you will submit to Allah.” As a result, I have no desire for heartfelt conversation with Muslims. I want them to flourish in peace and happiness as equals. By equals, I mean governed by the authority of the governed including me. However, I have no desire to try to share my experience with them: I do not want to hear that “sooner or later” message, let alone debate it.
Faiz, please comment on this idea:
Islam is misunderstood because it seems Muslim people can’t share—can’t give and take—can’t speak and listen.
Phil
Edited to "Faiz." Also made “could” and “can’t” consistent and more.
Phil
kaka dada
Thomas Jones 100+
Thanks for your kind words.
I think this conversation has run its course, for one thing, Faiz Mukthar, the person who started it, seems to have abandoned us. He has not posted since September 15th (and he did not reply to a personal message I sent him to see if he was still interested in the conversation.)
Perhaps he received a satisfactory reply to his question.
Thomas
Phillip Beaver 10+
Thank you for the information and for somehow prompting me to share my story.
One of the two gentlemen I referred to I feel is a dear friend, yet we have the “sooner or later” barrier. To make it worse, each time we depart, he says, "God bless you," not realizing that my brain bounces to, "You will submit to Allah," and I depart a little alienated or perhaps wounded--again.
I think my question is one that would eventually help the Muslim dialogue with non-Muslims and will be looking for another opportunity to present it.
In the meantime, perhaps another Muslim will respond. I do want to help.
I would be interested in your comments on my story. Is it too blunt? Would there be interpretation problems with the edited language? Does it prompt the Muslim to merely stop making the “submit” statement, or does it come through that perhaps they cannot imagine a non-Muslim has a desirable destiny? In other words, is my story too subtle?
Phil
Thomas Jones 100+
I do not think your story is too blunt or too subtle. It is your story, and you can tell it however you like. Of course, the purpose of a story is for another to hear it (it also informs us of the image we hold of our self.)
So, if you would like your story to be heard, consider the audience (perhaps your dear friend) and find a way to tell it so that he can hear it.
Remember, all stories are fiction - even if they are based on fact. The only true Story must be no longer than a single breath. Any story that takes longer than that to tell will abandon us as we breathe our last breath. (Such a Story, of course, cannot be "told," it can only be lived.)
However, if we wish to tell our longer stories (while we have the time) considering the audience is a good place to start.
As Stephen R. Covey puts it:
"If I were to summarize in one sentence the single most important principle I have learned in the field of interpersonal relations, it would be this: SEEK FIRST TO UNDERSTAND, THEN TO BE UNDERSTOOD. This principle is key to effective interpersonal communication." [Emphasis his.]
Phillip Beaver 10+
My story about why I misunderstand Muslims:
To submit to Allah, I would need to deny my faith, which I cannot do.
But I am good to my neighbors, without wanting to know their religions.
Can the Muslim accommodate my citizenship?
Can the Muslim be my good neighbor?
Phil
faiz mukthar
islam is so detailed that it teach you how to do sex with your wife.its a perfect guide you can refer to live.
now you may ask why rule for everything or why a control over everything.answer is simple but not easy to accept.you can question yourself and try to get answer "will you pay tax if you are not feared legal action"
So for a peaceful and adjusted life always needs some rules has to be kept.islam never says that you should wage war for spreading islam.islam teach that if you dont love the country where you live even if its not an islamic nation you are not a complete muslim..why people are deaf and dumb to such noble teachings???
faiz mukthar
lets think wats there in islam which is not there in other religions which makes islam a villain in this modern world.
christianity if embraced as such as jesus(pbuh) i will be confused whether to call him a christian or muslim!!that deep is the relation between christianity and islam.
But what happened to christianity was it got influenced by people.the bible itself was edited and was made it comfortable for us.this is the reason why you will never find reason to hate christianity because its more humane and match the way we think and gives as a better room.
abraham(pbuh) was a messenger whom islam respects a lot.quran sites the abraham's (pbuh) examples a lot in islam and every muslim's pray 5 times a day wont be complete without praying for him.muhammed (pbuh) itself is his descent.. http://www.atlantajamaat.org/md_saw_family_tree.php..
abraham (pbuh) is in islam to the extend that every muslim celebrates the day when god asked abraham (pbuh) to sacrifice a goat instead of his own son.but rarely people know this.in islam this day is given more importance than prophet's birthday.
abraham(pbuh) destroyed all the ideals and preached monotheism and discarded idol worship but what happened after his death we all know his own idol was made..how STRANGE!!
I told above things to make you understand that islam is not an alien to other religion.we are all preaching a religion whose messengers had same aim.
Now let's take islam.what makes islam different from these religions is that islam interfere in everything in your life.right from you are born till the judgement day is being discussed and explained.quran was never edited and hence its not humane at all in our eyes but its divine hence can never be against humanity and love.muhammed(pbuh) taught how to live.he was a ruler and taught how to rule.continued....
Thomas Jones 100+
Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
However, you miss an important point: You believe in Allah, the Quran, and so on.
For you, they are true, because they are true.
Not everyone believes as you believe.
For many, what you believe is simply superstition that we humans have a tendency to propagate.
For some, the Quran and Bible are fiction; for others they're an inspiration but not literally true; and for others they are the Word of God.
Perhaps one of the reasons that Islam is so grossly misunderstood is because (some) Muslims fail to accept that contradictory views are as equally valid to those who hold them as Islam is to them.
True believers of all religions tend to believe they are right and everyone else is wrong.
A few true believers are willing to kill to make the point.
Do you think that might lead to a gross misunderstanding?
----------------
By the way, if, in response to my comments, you assert that the Quran is true, and that if I only read this or that website, I will understand and accept your interpretation of the "Truth" as correct, you will have missed the point completely.
This seems to be a common error we make. We assume that if the other person knew what we know, they would believe what we believe ... which is true, by the way. The part we miss is that it goes both ways ... for example, if you knew what I know, you would believe what I believe.
The difference between a religious believer and, me, for example, is I don't mind if you agree with me or not.
True believers such as fundamentalist Christians and Muslims, do care whether others believe in what they believe in or not - for them, it is a "matter of (eternal) life and death." If I do not believe what they say .. well, you know what the outcome of that will be .. I'll go to hell.
Now, if you are a true believer, you will likely say I do not have to believe in what "YOU" say (because you are fallible) but I should read the Quran .. because it is infallible .. and so on.
faiz mukthar
if you want to criticise something you have to learn it properly
Anyways thanks bro for your feedback..god bless you
Thomas Jones 100+
So you are suggesting that anyone who criticizes Islam should first read the Quran, is that correct?
It's a fair assertion to make.
What if they have read the Quran and still choose to criticize Islam?
Then what?
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Why do you think Islam is so grossly misunderstood?
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By the way, you sound an awful lot like another person I was conversing with about the Quran here on TED.
Frans Kellner 100+
Colleen Steen 500+
People often attack that which they do not understand, because they are afraid of it/them.
The media focuses on it because fear seems to attract people as observers.
Prophet muhammed is not considered great by some people, because he did some things that do not seem acceptable.
Salim Solaiman 50+
Whom with Islamic community ,people who are not muslim can learn what Islam means from your view point?
Why there are so many fight fraction with in followers of islam ?
What lesson world can learn from the so called muslim countries of middle east ?
What are the bigger events now around the world going on which is out focus other than what happening in so called islamic world of Middle East ?
What lesson no islamic world can learn from Islamic country of sub continent Pakistan , where every now and then muslim are killed in the hand of muslim ?