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Woody Dunkin

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Catholicism opposes the equality of women

Catholicism opposes the equality of women. How can men, especially men with a wife, daughters or sons, be members of the catholic church and claim to believe in equality for women?

- Nuns/women are not allowed to own property; Priests/men can.
- Nuns take a vow of obedience. Priests do not.
- Women are not allowed to hold high office within the catholic church. Only men can be priests, pastors, bishops, cardinals or pope.

If actions speak louder than words, what is Catholicism saying about the value of women?

Fair and equal treatment is a requirement of ones perceived value; especially from authority figures.

If, "...we as men, good men, the large majority of men, we operate on the foundation of this whole collective socialization.", how can we be good men and indoctrinate our sons and daughters into an influential community that practices and perpetuates the inequality of women?

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    Sep 19 2011: Why not then, not be Catholic if one does not like Catholicisms rules and culture?

    So only men can be priests, and to be a nun one must take special vows different then that of what a priest would take? That does not imply some grave sexism but instead differing roles for differing people which are not even mandatory for every Catholic.

    This reminds me of the conflicts between feminist groups and Orthodox Judaism. Reform/Conservative Judaism has entirely embraced feminism and in fact a majority of Jews adhere to those latter two sects, but for Orthodox Jews still adhere to older rules which Feminists decry as sexist. For example only Male Rabbi, Cohen, Kantors, and the gender specific seating and the rules around what men can do and what women can do. Feminist groups wish to change and regulate the Orthodox, however the Orthodox are not requiring anyone to join or be in their community... and why focus on attack a small group instead of empowering ones own?

    I say, if you don't like Catholicism, start your own church.
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      Sep 20 2011: You are correct - thousands of adults have left the church as you suggested. But what about the children who are indoctrinated at birth? Do they have the ability to make that choice?

      This debate was started in support of correcting the unequal treatment of women in society. Because it is systemic we need to ask ourselves why is it happening? By highlighting how just one influential organization perpetuates the unequal treatment of women hopefully will raise the awareness and lead to a correction. Cultural shifts take time and no one organization is to blame, but each one should be held responsible.
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        Sep 20 2011: I question the "systemic" nature of said alleged unequal treatment and would be quick to point out that likewise men get a raw deal in many ways that benefit women. First off I contest the notion that it is unequal, or that it has to be in accordance with post modernist cause celebre notions of "progress."

        Children, when they grow up, can decide to leave their family and their families culture all they like. Until then I suggest you butt out and leave people alone.
        • Sep 20 2011: "Children, when they grow up, can decide to leave their family and their families culture all they like. Until then I suggest you butt out and leave people alone."

          Would you walk on by if you saw a woman being abused by a man in the street? Would you sit idly by as, day after day, you witnessed a co-worker was being sexually harassed in the work place? Would you not do anything to help those around you who were being mistreated? By your "butt out" comment, I am assuming you would do just that and not involve yourself in their business. I call that being an immoral coward.
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          Sep 20 2011: James - one of the values of this debate forum is to "butt in" and speak up against injustice.

          Please find the courage to reflect back to when you were a child; vulnerable, impressionable. How easy is it for you to leave behind the prejudice and bias you were subject to? Are you even aware of them? By the time you are an adult it takes extraordinary awareness and intelligence to "leave the family's culture" you suggest.

          We have a responsibility to the next generation (and ourselves) to coach forward. Surely we can do better than being indifferent toward injustices. Shouldn't generations co-exist rather than being a passive witness to injustice and butting out?

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