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Ryan Persaud

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If someone is a good person without believing in god only good choices. Does that make them better or worse in the eyes of god?

Because if im a good person by choice and i don't need to read the bible to do so doesn't that mean that im just naturally a good person and as such should i not be able to go to heaven (or any equivalent for the differ religions) or would I still be damned.

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    Aug 24 2011: If we are to accept what Christianity says, that we access heaven simply by accepting Jesus into our hearts and confessing our sins, there will be good natured atheists in Hell and child-molesting priests in Heaven. That's just sad.
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      Aug 24 2011: Seems like a design flaw to me. I mean if I were in charge of designing a hell it would be a no brainer that I would put in a good amount of child molesting priest, esp if I were making a children's hell.
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        Aug 25 2011: I almost clicked on the little icon that says "This is helpful" until I read what the icon says ("This is helpful") and realized that clicking on that message would be the wrong message because I find your humor odd, crooked, twisted, politically incorrect and most of all funny. I can 't stop LOL. Thanks.
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      Aug 25 2011: Any "access to heaven" necessarily implies selection criteria, so some will meet the inclusion criteria and some do not. Any claim to specifics of who god is or what god wants implies that we could in some way understand "god". Any assumption that we can understand god implies that the concept of god falls within our ability to conceive of IT (God) in our clearly human mind. This circular reasoning is very likely a bit of faulty wiring in the brain, IMHO.

      The only concept of GOD that I have ever been able to conceptualize at all, under any circumstances, even when I was a child in Catholic school, was something similar to the Hindu Vedaantist concept of Brahman: the unknowable, unphysical, untouchable, unreachable, uninterested essence of the consciousness of the universes (multiverses if you will).

      Unknowable! Plus which, I simply do not believe. I have no faith. End of story.
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    Aug 25 2011: Which God? Whose God? What myths and tales we create to make us feel righteous. How we bend words to fit our needs to claim truth and power over others to create hate and war. God is Good, God is Great, and my God can kick your God's ass. If you don't believe like I do then the is no place for you here on Earth or in Heaven.

    Come on people...really? Is that the hatred your Gods teach? Then your Heaven could be my Hell.

    Also we prey for God to support us and screw the other guy God created through the miracle of life, wether it be sports, war, or a job interview.

    Good people are good people as good people, and thier good deeds amplify thier worth.

    Also people put good people in a position to do horrid things (Sometimes it takes a good person with a gun to deal with a bad person with a gun).

    Love, hate, love, hate? Man has created so many mixed messages with religion.

    All I know is that I enjoy living for so many reasons and try to enjoy them with other people around me, but don't f*ck with me...AMEN! :-)

    P.S. Why would a person who does not believe even worry...Or do you?
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    Aug 25 2011: Didn't know that God had eyes. Who is God anyway can you help me with that?
    If you follow your heart and only do that what feels good you can be sure that you partake in creation which is love.
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    Aug 25 2011: I believe in this : God loves everyone regardless of their beliefs.But you must never stop searching for the truth.
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    Aug 23 2011: If it existed you would be damned. It is their logic, their book, and their rules.
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    Aug 25 2011: Stephen Batchelor describes a new view of what Gotama Buddha was seeking to set in motion, a just society based on self imposed (by individual selves, not by society 'itself') morality. He posits that Gotama's whole vision (not a divine inspiration, just a plan) was that by Mindfulness we each can see the justice of acting morally for it's own sake and for the good it does us and society. I know some confuse this with totalitarian communism, but it is clearly different and to the point raised here.
    As long as religious sects have a patent on morality, each will condemn the others, and vaunt itself. It is part of the first law of sociology: once established, any corporation, group, movement, society, or belief system adopts as its de facto (not de jure) Prime Directive "Self Perpetuation". This accounts for the self perpetuation schemes of belief systems, with arrogance, superiority, claims of divine (therefore correct, righteous, unique) endowment and support.
    Until morality becomes non religious, secular and totally pervasive, we will not have unity and peace. To get there we must co-operate on feeding, educating, caring for and caring about everyone else, because it is the right thing to do, not because someone heard a voice or had a dream.
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    Aug 23 2011: I don't believe in hell. I believe that hell was created to scare people into doing the right thing. I don't believe in the bible neither. I feel because it was written by man, it can't be given the benifit of the doubt. Like you, I listen to the voice in my head that lets me know what's right or wrong, but I still believe in God and ask him for forgivness if I'm living wrong. Religions have flaws, so you're in the right of sticking to your guns. But I believe God only asks for faith in his existance.
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      Aug 23 2011: right there with you, kent :) happy travels :)
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    Aug 23 2011: would a benevolent god create a hell? i wouldnt think so.
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      Aug 24 2011: Why would god be benevolent. Seems like if there is a god there is quite a bit of violence in it, judging the artist by the art.
  • Sep 2 2011: I believe non-belivers are going to the same place as the rest of us and God does not frown on them for not believing. None of us is perfect in Gods eyes so therefore nobody is better or worse, we are all the same.

    James
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    Aug 27 2011: This is why religion is so stupid. People don't understand, there is no such thing as making a WRONG decision, or making a RIGHT decision.

    You make the decision you want to. No matter what people say, everything you do, your brain decides on that action. That is the right decision.

    Adolf Hitler thought he was making the right decision by exterminating jews. Now it's a pretty horrible idea, but to him it made perfect sense.

    His thoughts and ideas were a product of his environment. He can not be judged by anyone. He is not a bad person, nor a good person. He is just another human being.

    Drink the haterade if you must. Hold on to your theistic belief like it's your child dangling over a cliff.
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      Aug 27 2011: What BUNK!

      I can and must judge the actions of Hitler. I can and must judge your potential to screw up the world that my kids and I live in. We live in one world that we have to share.
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        Aug 27 2011: Okay, I take it back. You can judge Hitler.

        But do you think Hitler's actions are "wrong", do you think he understood his own evil?


        And if we want to talk about "screwing up" let's talk about the animals our (i'll do some judging myself now, to maybe help give you some perspective) horrible species has killed. We've obliterated many ecosystems.

        But we did it, because our brains chose to.

        Why don't we talk about the genocide men commit every time they masturbate.
        Or what about that kid down the street who stomps out ants.

        Everyone judges differently, obviously it's not genocide, that kid isn't that bad he doesn't know any better, etc. These are simple explanations.

        Although much more extensive, there is an explanation for hitler as well.
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      Aug 28 2011: Cole, you seem to be young and smart. Don't waste such talent by trying to think too quickly. Think long and hard and think some more. Statements such as the Hitler one will not happen if you think about substance over style when you write.

      Consider the likely possibility that you don't know much. because you don't - yet. But keep plugged into TED and be willing to be wrong and you'll do fine. Oh and one more thing - When Debra talks, listen! :}
  • Aug 26 2011: How do you define a good person?
    In my opinion,
    One of the main characteristics of a good person, is one
    a) Who eats what is required for living and not for taste
  • Aug 26 2011: doing good is good but not ACCEPTED if no believe in God. only deeds done FOR God are accepted by God.
    if a human not believe in God and do good in life at Judgement day can not claim reward for good deeds and if so the reply of God will be:

    you did goods for yourself not for me. you received your reward in world like money/respect/prestige/salary and so on. you did not for me to I reward you. you received your reward and not you not creditor.

    http://tanzil.net/#66:6

    also please note it is impossible a human not have a God.
    what you obey is your God. even yourself.
    if you obey science your God is science. if obey stomach its your God. and if some one obey wishes of himself his "self" is his God:
    http://tanzil.net/#25:43

    and God promised forgives all sins unless association with Him:
    http://tanzil.net/#4:48
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      Aug 27 2011: SR, "if a human not believe in God and do good in life at Judgement day can not claim reward for good deeds and if so the reply of God will be: you did goods for yourself not for me. you received your reward in world like money/respect/prestige/salary and so on. you did not for me to I reward you. you received your reward and not you not creditor. "

      which God are you talking about? are you talking about sub-human God? A greater God sees only your good deeds and good action. nothing else.

      "also please not it is impossible a human not have a God."
      may be. but there are better Gods than Allah.
      • Aug 27 2011: det,
        "which God are you talking about?"
        I said before I am talking of Islam God as known in Koran.
        God does not ACCEPT any kind of good deeds.
        for example please reply:
        your god does accept this as a good?:
        if some one steal money from a rich and give it to a poor does your God accept it as a good deed or not?
        also if some one does not believe in God so why do good? what is meaning of good without God? perhaps you say if some do good we will have a better society. OK so living in a better socity is reward of that human. any reply to this question (why we should do good deeds?) is the reward of goods and so why should reward again when he have received the reward before? its like you work one and get salary twice.

        "are you talking about sub-human God?"
        no a creator of human

        "A greater God sees only your good deeds and good action. nothing else."
        no God see both goods and bads. but only ACCEPT goods done for God not goods done by a human for himself (not for God).
        its like a worker come and work in your home without you have asked him work for you and then he ask wage from you. why you reply? especially when you did not have any need for that work.

        "but there are better Gods than Allah."
        I want that God. what/who is it?
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          Aug 27 2011: SR, "I said before I am talking of Islam God as known in Koran."
          i also said before that i'm talking about Lord Brahma as known to everybody.

          "God does not ACCEPT any kind of good deeds."
          thats your God. my God knows exactly whats on your mind. so that ex: God know exactly what was the intention of stealing and he decides it is good or bad.

          "also if some one does not believe in God so why do good? what is meaning of good without God?"
          tomorrow if you know there is no God, do you run around stealing, raping and killing people?

          "no a creator of human"
          only human creates God.

          "no God see both goods and bads. but only ACCEPT goods done for God not goods done by a human for himself (not for God)."
          there is no way of knowing it. Define God first plz.

          "its like a worker come and work in your home without you have asked him work for you and then he ask wage from you. why you reply? especially when you did not have any need for that work."
          needs are for human and sub human. God is not what you think.

          "I want that God. what/who is it?"
          read Upanishads an d Bhavad Gita.
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  • Aug 26 2011: "If someone is a good person without believing in god only good choices. Does that make them better or worse in the eyes of god?"
    I am 100% sure with no doubt THEY ARE IN HELL. GOD IS OBVIOUS. EXISTENCE PROVES GOD. GOD NEVER MISSED TO BE FOUND.

    usually people interpret "in the eyes of god?" as they like for example saying God loves all the same is a big lie.
    the only way is asking God himself and not talking instead of God.
    and so we should communicate God.

    the only claims of God and Hell and Heaven is made by prophets. (like Moses, Jesus, Muhammad PBUT)
    the only prophet there is access to his sayings certain is Muhammad (PBUH) because about Jesus (PBUH) there is not certanty that today Bible is exactly same as what Jesus (PBUH) himself said and there is no guarantee some parts of is not removed during history by enemies of God.

    I consider Koran as word of God and if Koran is not word of God so there is no worry for Hell because at Judgement day I can claim and say God: you did not proved me that you exist and you did not warn me certain about Hell and God is not cruel.
    so if we consider Koran word of God then Koran says for being good and for good deeds to be accepted by God there is some prerequisites (like minimum requirements) and without them how much good deeds you do they are not
    ACCEPTED.
    the min requirements are:
    1- witness that God is only one. believing in more than God is not forgivable:
    2- witness that Muhammad (PBUH) is messenger of God.

    each people are for a prophet and should follow a prophet.
    in eyes of God, God gifted human wisdom and free will (not important free will evolved or not. any way God gifted and evolving is kind of creation) and so human has the duty to seek truth and find God and try to meet God.
    now we all are people of prophet Muhammad (PBUH) but if some one is Christian and do enough seek but not find Islam, Christianity is accepted from him. but enough seeking is needed.

    http://tanzil.net/#39:53
    http://tanzil.net/#2:62
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    Aug 26 2011: Ryan, It is no secret to anyone I think that there are plenty of ,,awesome-very moral/good people who do not believe in God. If any god claimed his followers were the only truly "good people" then that to me isnt a god that would be worth believing in.. :) I would define myself as a Christian meaning that I believe the bible is true and I also believe in God and Jesus Christ. That being said- I could walk out into the street right now and find many handfuls of people who are more loving , charitable and all around selfless than I am. Forunately I do not believe that goodness is a quality in wich God puts a very high value on . The second thing I would like to say is that I do not believe in religion. I also do not know 100 percent if I will go to heaven or hell. Although whereever I end up I can only conclude that is where I deserve to be because I veiw Hell as islotation and heaven as community- And everyday I make the chioce between the too. I do not do so under fear of punishment bu tthat I want to be closer to God and other people in my life I do not know much about all the mythyology attributed to hell being all fire and brimstone and heaven being puffy cloud.s harps and angels or whatever. It is my understanding ( I dont want to debate it) that God wants people to be in a loving relaitonship with himself. Their goodness or lachtherreof have little to know bearing on whether this is possible. Jesus never asked anyone about their goodness or morality he was too busy loving them to think about it.
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    Aug 24 2011: Are you the best person who community organizations turn to and say "we want to model our organization after you!" Do you treat everyone equally? If a famous and respected person came over to your house today would you not pull out your finest wine and make your house look like a very presentable palace and give that person the best of everything? What about if a homeless person knocked on your door asking for food or money? Would you invite him in and treat him the same or even better then the famous and respected person? Or would you give him a little bit of food, $20 and send him on his way. Faith without works is dead, but works without faith is meaningless (summarization and interpretation from James 2 for those who read the Bible). I agree with Kent that religion has flaws, but I like to look at Christianity as a relationship. If you insult your wife then make dinner for her, she will still remember that you are not sorry for insulting her. Your actions might mean one thing but that verbal admitting that you did something wrong and honestly seek forgiveness from her as well as make her dinner, then she will forgive you. In faith it is the same. If you do even one bad thing it is like insulting God (sin) and you can go out and do a whole bunch of good works but if you do not admit that sin and ask for forgiveness you will still have it held against you. I believe in Heaven and Hell and that the works that we do here on earth determine how eternity will be played out. If you have faith in Jesus you go to heaven, you choose not to believe, well you have already answered that in your mind. But beyond that if you do good works on earth and have faith you will be storing up treasures in heaven. Matthew 6:19-24. I would type it out but if you are honestly wanting to look into it you would search it for yourself. I think good works are awesome and it makes the world a better place. But why not look into your own spiritual awareness and decide for yourself :)
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      Aug 24 2011: So all the people who are in the "wrong" religion by accident of birth are insulting God? Doesn't God know better than to judge them for something they can't help? Someone somewhere who has never had any exposure to the Bible and therefore cannot honestly form an opinion on God is by that sole fact destined to Hell. Good going God, you really planned that out well!

      I am sure that a being with infinite supplies of wisdom could understand that one book written a few thousand years ago isn't much to go by. Yes, you could go on about faith, but if faith requires faith you're screwed if you don't have it in the first place.
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        Aug 24 2011: One of the most interesting conversations of my life was with my then 16 year old eldest son when he told me why he could not believe in the God of the bible's Old Testament. He said - after reading the book (which most Christians cannot claim to have done)- that even he knew that killing entire villages of men, women, children and animals was immoral. He said that there was no way that a human being should be able to know that better than God did.

        Taking up his reasoning, I realize that I cannot be more compassionate, more understanding or more caring than God so I cannot imagine a universe where it is OK to hate gay people, to kill women who are raped in the city who did not call out loudly enough or many other tenents of a written book.

        I still love the sense of God that said "With all of your getting get understanding, with all of your getting get knowledge." or "when you see your neighbour's oxcart in a ditch do not turn away pretending that you do not see his distress". Until I get to a better understanding of 'God' I will continue to love the attributes that I percieve of God: Justice, mercy, wisdom, love.
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          Aug 24 2011: i caim to this exact realization while in church, left and never came back.
    • Aug 24 2011: Well im just a human with a very simple reasoning i don't claim knowledge i don't fully understand. Because if i had a fraction of the power of God, Lets say i was superman for example (I know its a little silly but bare with me). There are things i could do which could save almost the entire world (lol super speed etc). And that's not even close to the power of God. So im saying we have the answer to do it in a very general sense but we lack the power such as strength, Resources etc. So why cant God shed a helping hand.

      P.S. If i offend anyone by this it is not my intention to do so and i apologize in advanced.
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        Aug 24 2011: How then could we as humans have the opportunity to go and prove that we are good if God has already saved everyone in the world and made life just some easy walk in the park?
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          Aug 24 2011: what exactly would we prove?

          Prove:
          Demonstrate the truth or existence of (something) by evidence or argument

          i think best we can do is give our opinion and to live by it.
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          Aug 25 2011: Don't you think God could have made his case more compelling? around 4 billion people are going to Hell for having the wrong belief or no belief at all. That sounds like the casualty toll of a God who seriously lacks compassion. Not to mention some of the 2 billion who are going to Hell because they're still horrid people despite being Christians. I wonder if he'll send Creationists to hell since he likes to punish ignorance.
        • Aug 25 2011: I agree it seems a very steep price to pay for simple proof. Especially of an all loving God. Science today requires absolute proof but we never wager such pain and strife for it because of the HUMAN concept of being inhuman.
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      Aug 25 2011: Nate, if you look around over the earth if we are nowadays capable of, don't you think then that heaven and hell are here allready. And if you look carefully it is indifferent for that matter what faith someone has.
      There is a nice tale about heaven and hell.

      There was once a samurai who wanted to learn the difference between heaven and hell. He sought until he found a master from whom he thought he could learn. He stood before the Master and asked him what was the difference between heaven and hell. The Master took the samurai’s sword and, turning it to the flat of the blade, struck the samurai on the head. The samurai was surprised at this but chose to ignore it. He thought that the Master had failed to understand his question. He once again asked the Master about the difference between heaven and hell. Again the Master struck the samurai on the head. The samurai staggered back and puzzled over this. He approached with his question for a third time and, before he could utter a word, the Master struck him a third time. The samurai was now so enraged at this behaviour that he grabbed his sword from the Master, raised it over his head and was prepared to bring it down on the Master’s head when the Master raised one finger and the samurai paused.

      "That is hell," said the Master.

      The samurai was instantly so overcome by the courage of this frail old man - to have risked his life for the sake of a stranger’s question - that he fell to his knees and bowed before the Master.

      "That is heaven," said the Master.
  • Aug 24 2011: A question I have contemplated about as well. I too believe myself to be a good person, (for the most part) and wondered if I would still go to heaven, assuming there is one, even though I have little to no faith. I asked the people I knew who have a strong faith what would happen to someone like me (us) if i knew i was a good person with out reading the bible or absolutely believing in God. Their answer, more or less, was that I would still have a judgment day based upon the person I was or the sins I committed. If that is true, then we are totally in the clear bro lol.

    P.S. I was also told that if I didnt belileve in Him that I wouldnt be seen by him. most likely implying I would go to hell.