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Does 'Humility' have value?
Humility is the first of “16 Guidelines” suggested for a more fulfilling life.
"Humility or humbleness is a quality of being courteously respectful of others. It is the opposite of aggressiveness, arrogance, boastfulness, and vanity. ..." twopaths.com/humility.htm
Please share your personal interpretation of the term - as everyone has a different perspective?
How does it relate to your life, and affect others?
Is it a quality that would benefit? a useful guideline for you?
Poems, links, antidotes or humour are all greatly appreciated! This TED Talk advocates humility in design ... another interesting take.
Closing Statement from Kate Blake
Great discussion - thanks everyone for joining in, and to TED for providing the forum!
Most of us agree 'humility' is a quality that we aspire to - but two very strong voices claim it is not a useful quality at all - that self-promotion is needed in order to succeed in today's highly competitive world.
Is it a useful guideline for life - we all have choices! And I certainly aspire to it fueled by my great admiration for those with genuine 'humility'. But have no doubt that it is difficult to achieve.
Leila Oicles
It seems to me that humilty is in the recognizing that there is something far greater than one's self. The humility is the dedication to this higher purpose. In that way, recognition, ones personal pleasures, personal goals and dreams directed towards individual benefit or ego is not running the show so to speak. It is a practice of sacrificing one's self for the betterment of the whole and higher, perhaps more spiritual purpose. But one has to be careful for not all religious and/or spiritual figures embody true humility, as the ego can still get involved when one attains power and followers.
It is truly amazing to me to find any figure that has embodied humilty, perhaps they haven't perfectly, but it is a practice, you don't just attain it and its there always, it is something practiced daily. Perhaps for some souls that are considered advanced, well, then maybe it is a more natural state. i don't know.
Interesting topic!
Kate Blake 50+
Yes both Gisela and Birdia have drawn our attention to that 'ego' factor. Do you agree with their view that one needs to self-proclaim one's strengths and achievements in order to 'compete' in the career world?
Birdia refers to John several times - that people still queue up to purchase his creations whether he has 'good or bad' publicity. I would suggest that he obviously has genuine talent and because of this people will pay close attention to his every word. So he will always get publicity ... so why be nasty when he could set a great example to all by being a bit nicer - NOT humble, just more pleasant?
Danny Severino
Kate Blake 50+
Inglés?
Kate Blake 50+
I am getting a bit lost on the thread below, so let's start a new one?
Am finally getting the 'drift' of your point more now, so please correct me if I am not clear? To get ahead, noticed, fame, acknowledgment, recognition, etc one needs to either have or be a self-promoting mechanism? What 'word' would cover this? Are you saying it is directly opposite to 'humility'? or could it possibly somehow go hand in hand with humility?
So those very humble people I have met are not famous, wealthy, etc ... just very content warm people! No world fame like Dalai Lama and Mother Teresa ... but did their world fame come about because of the 'causes' they championed?
Agree they do have a 'promotional' team around them, but is this not worthwhile to bring their 'causes' to public attention? And am by no means demeaning the work you or others do - NY sounds highly competitive, glad I'm not there! Does Salim have a point that if you are performing 'exceptionally' then others would automatically recognise and respond to that ... even if team members try to undermine it along the way - your qualities would still outshine others?
Gisela McKay 30+
To begin with, the Dalai Lama is an exception - he was deemed to have been the latest incarnation, which effectively puts him in the class with royals (divine right) so let's rule him out and discuss those who have made active choices as to their paths.
I do not believe that simply labouring away quietly will get you the eye of some great and benevolent other. (And I am not even going to go down the path of whether or not one needs said attention - you can read my book when I'm finished it ;-)
Even the concept of the other giving attention brings the issue that I wanted to make - that being content in and of yourself has no bearing on whether others will perceive you as humble or not. One could make the judgment that celebrity is arrogant because they keep to themselves or because they were lost in thought the last time you encountered them and they did not acknowledge you the way you had deemed appropriate. Or at another moment, because they took a moment to speak with you, they are humble. And it is the same person, just different moments.
Removing the factor of celebrity, the same judgments can be made about "regular people" who (assuming they are not yelling at people and throwing things) can be deemed by others as humble or not.
Humility is purely a judgment of others. and trying to get people to value it as a "trait" and internalize it is really to force them to consider others' perceptions above their own path. I say walk your path, and whether others find you arrogant or humble is irrelevant.
Gisela McKay 30+
Edit: actually, the changes in the publishing industry actually illustrate my point. Most authors now have to market their own books, much to their initial surprise. (Book title "From Here to Trek: the philosophical and psychological shifts needed to reach the promised 24th century" - that subhead will change.)
Gisela McKay 30+
Kate Blake 50+
I for one have enjoyed your input, thanks.
Gisela McKay 30+
I deeply enjoy debate - otherwise I wouldn't do it!
Thank you for the question :)
natasha nikulina 50+
and nobody is standing apart from the others, nobody is capable of creating anything "ex Nihilo",
I don't remember who defined a conscious human being as " me + humankind ", one may go further and
feel like "me + everything" With this attitude whatever the achievements, whatever the greatness one can enjoy the
the reward through doing a great job, h/se enjoys the results of his labour, not himself.
Debra Smith 200+
denise rhodes
Kate Blake 50+
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Kate Blake 50+
Nicholas Lukowiak 50+
I place it in psychological needs and basic needs. It refines in security and is emphasized in relationships + self-prophecy.
I was given humility from my parents, teachers, friends, family, and other persons in my developing cognition as I was raised. I am now a firm believer in everyone is equal no matter what, ideas make people above one another in reality... nothing tangible makes someone better. Because if the opposite party had said tangible item, they would be "above"...I was lucky enough to be raised the way I was and am in dismay pretty often to know far too many take what they have for granted.
(The way I consider the hierarchy of needs is easier than Maslows'... (bottom up) Food, shelter, family(friends), ego, super ego. In my opinion as a young naive kid, there are far too many god-complexes going around for there to be people without the first one.)
Anyways. Enough about me. If/as you read this. Remember everyone is the same (biologically [basically]), what separates us is educations more than anything else. Different cultures divide ideas, thus divides man. Ideas run the world, not people.
Moral of my short story; you gain more from spreading wealth than keeping it, therefore all the wealth will return in joy not in profit, life continuing on is worth more than any idea continuing on unchanged..
It is important to emphasis those cultures who "highlight" humility, those who inspire to altruism.
I think we all should be stimulated intellectually and emotionally therefore that is a perfect balance to keep our minds happy.
Krisztián Pintér 200+
Debra Smith 200+
Humble people can accept a compliment and yet never think that it elevates them above someone else.
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Debra Smith 200+
It was this false humilty that I was addressing above.
I honestly admire those people who have the strength of personality and self knowledge to allow their actions and their achievements to speak for themselves. Bragging people turn most others off. Perhaps, though, you are suggesting that we should be more understanding of individuals who crow about their own accomplishments because if they do not society will not acknowledge them? This might be a fruitful point.
Gisela McKay 30+
The reality, however, is that the people who are making the decisions are usually wrapped up in what they are doing on a day-to-day basis and need to have a summary of what has been done - i.e. have it brought to their attention.
This has nothing to do with comparison to others: either you did or did not do the work in question. Perhaps it is more than someone else did, perhaps it is not, but there is no need to make it about the comparison.
The insecure turn everything into comparisons. I'm sure there is a reason for this in their minds, but I cannot let it dictate how I live my life. A very tangible example of this happened to me the other day. Someone mentioned during a general conversation about business start-ups and success that I have developed a good network of friends who help me with my business to a third party (I wasn't even in the room).
Said third party, apparently having stewed in this for a few days, boiled over and yelled at me that my friend had implied that she had no friends and no network - not at all what was said, she admitted after direct questioning. I can't even imagine walking through life mentally adding "and you don't" to everything others say.
Perhaps it is because this just happened a couple of days ago that I have even less patience with the idea of 'humility' and other concepts that are purely about comparison. Some people just do what they want to do in life - reach as far as they can - not driven by a need to be "better than" others, but to be their best self.
Why is there an expectation that they'd have to be rude as a result? Is that not what "he is so humble" implies?
Kate Blake 50+
Your situation sounds complicated, it's is indeed sad that others cannot rejoice when a friend or colleague is praised! The price for success is that others insecurities and jealousies arise but you valued her friendship and worked through it - well done
Agree that the meaning of 'humility' is different for everyone, that's why I asked for people's 'personal interpretation of the term'!
Salim Solaiman 50+
Well in this time of hyper competitive corporate world, only performers are in the race of promotion (if nepotism or nasty corporate politics is not there). So actually to win that race something else counts more as interms of performance all are on level ground, sometimes "humility" can be that something else.
As being promoted means moving up means leading people directly or indirectly. If leader always says whatever success came accross is because of her/him, at some point s/he will find nobody is behind her/him to follow (physically there can be but emotionally not)........
Being a leader HUMILITY can be great strength........ as ultimately team knows who did it....
Salim Solaiman 50+
Result speaks louder than the loudest microphone, whether it's individual or team level doesn't matter.
Michelangelo / Picaso / John Galliano are great as their works resulted in to greatness ...... isn't it ?
Salim Solaiman 50+
For John & other designers linked with commerce (as you said) the results means return in terms money or other commercial achievment like brand value, image etc etc which actually all converts in to money.
For Michelangelo or Da Vinchi it's the uniqueness , universalness , immortalness of the beauty of their work........
Gisela McKay 30+
We aren't speaking about under performers, but two people, all other things being equal, one of whom lets people know what they have done, and the other who doesn't.
In the case of Michaelangelo and Da Vinci, I'd say the latter comes across better because he had the better mind and broader set of interests and skills. But how many other artists of that era do we not know of because they did not have the initiative to find a patron who would finance their works? Did their humility help them?
It's easy enough to appear humble when you are born the Dalai Lama, selected out and raised to a position that involves others doing your promotion or a team of people functioning as your marketing team (Catholic Church using Mother Teresa as their paragon of virtue - keep naming people and I will identify who functioned as their promotional engine if you cannot identify it yourself).
I still maintain that one does not have to make a comparison to a single other person to believe that they are worthy of attention for having done something of note.
"Humility" is a judgment that the person isn't as unpleasant as you were expecting - but why should we expect that in the first place?
Salim Solaiman 50+
Agree Humility is judgmental same arrogance is. It's my feeling arrogance just creates hatred. Interestingly people don't tolerate arrogance of a mere performer but they do tolerate if the person is extremely talented performer for sometime. Also observed how an extremely talented performer who was arrogant to extreme as well thrown away by people in the corporate world due to the slightest mistake. Where as mistakes of humble performers were tolerated and as taken in way "we should learn from mistake". I am not talking theory but real life example from corporate world.
Definitely it's your decision what path you will take ...... my vote goes to humility..... In my language there is an old age proverb " let others to tell that you are great, if you start saying so you are not"
Kate Blake 50+
And you are right, the force of nature should 'humble' us ... look at the earthquakes, tsunami's, etc ...
Gisela McKay 30+
I think it's a matter of self-awareness: if they weren't deriving something from the giving, they would stop playing the martyr. Clearly it's filling some need inside them (self-righteousness, Cinderella complex, something) even if they deny it.
I am not particularly humble. I do not indulge in false modesty, but equally I do not tolerate people attempting to blow smoke up my butt with flattery. I know my shortcomings as well as my strengths, and still I choose to see the positive light. I think humans are amazing constructs: consider the number of hinges and joints in our bodies, let alone cells and bones and cartilage and all the rest. So many potential points of failure and yet how many of us function so very well and how rare are the mishaps.
I think the mishaps inspire the most wonder in me - a club foot, a slightly turned knee, an extra digit - they cause me to mentally enumerate the many things that do not go awry, in each of us. You cannot contemplate this and not feel awe.
I am all about awesomeness - the state of inspiring wonder or awe. I believe that awesomeness is in the doing and being, and first in the choosing. It is available to us all, if we choose to be and do that which can inspire.
I have no use for humility, for humility is in the comparison: in the 'you' and the 'I'.
It is in this comparison that lies the root of envy, of jealousy, of shame, and of the attempt to 'ground' others rather than elevate ones self.
I would rather see everyone embrace their awesomeness; it does not diminish anyone else, it is not a finite substance where embracing it means that there is less for others. We simply create more in the choosing.
Kate Blake 50+
I sincerely agree with Julie Ann's comment below that truly great people are genuinely humble eg Mother Teresa, Ghandi, Desmond Tutu, Dalai Lama ... to name a few. These people did not seek fame, they genuinely cared for humanity and did exactly what they felt was necessary to 'heal' the pain they saw ... I see you are helping others, and to me this is your true awesomeness! thank you
Gisela McKay 30+
But it's not necessarily a bad trigger to trip - to make the point that self-esteem is not finite like a hot water tank - if someone thinks they are awesome - regardless of your agreement or disagreement - it in no way takes anything away from anyone else.
It is such a huge waste of energy to say and even think things like, "She thinks she's so [smart/hot/good/whatever]." At worst, that has nothing to do with you, and at best, good for her for having self-esteem.
And yet so many people are either enraged or hurt by just the appearance of self-worth in others, when it has NOTHING to do with them. I deliberately never say, "I am awesome and (something or someone else) sucks." If people hear this, I want them to have to acknowledge that that was entirely in their perception and to begin to question why it's there.
Taking this scarcity mentality to its logical conclusion: "I've just used up all the awesomeness in the universe, sorry. Well, you can have some awesomeness tomorrow at 5." I'd say, that is so over the top that it would have to be clear, no?
But back to humility, doing good and being your highest best self should have nothing to do with "I am not better than you." Why focus on a hierarchy, even to deny it? Even the purest most spiritual definition of egolessness requires a meditative state. In choosing to act or allowing spirit, god, whatever to work through you is taking you out of that state. Denying moments of ego even in those figures is denying their humanity.
Humility may simply be a judgment passed by others if those who are deemed humble simple are doing good for the sake of doing good. It's still the energy of hierarchy being brought to bear.
Kate Blake 50+
Please read my comments to Birdia – as you raise similar points.
Gisela McKay 30+
It is simply part of human nature - and it is not something we can prescribe for others.
Julie Ann 10+
Joe Delsen 20+
When our science today tell us the truth about the devastating effects of climate change, are we humble enough to face the truth and truly do something about it?
Kate Blake 50+
Joe Delsen 20+
Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation says it great: ALL LIVES HAVE EQUAL VALUE. Our intrinsic nature as precious human beings is our standard value. Anything we achieve or don't achieve from this great potential provides the oppotunity for us to be humble and see the truth of our actions that we are either lifting other peope up or putting them down.
The only person that can be possibly worth puttin down are those who are aware of their true inner worth, otherwise people resort to violence and extremism that we are so horrifed to see today.
I rather prefer the excellence of lifting other people up and have them achieve their greatest potential. There are enough adventure that we can embark here on earth - solving our problems, sports, discoveries and if this is not enough let's conquer the outer space and expand our family in inter-gallactic civilization. Let's be Jedi's. Anyone?
Julie Ann 10+
Muhammad Aizat Zainal Alam 30+
The Ode to Serve
Serve with heart,not with head
Serve with love, not with hate
Serve with feeling, not just for duty's sake
Serve with grace, not with gloom
Serve with humility, not to boost your ego
Serve with empathy, not to prove you're worth
Serve with courage, not with fear
Serve unseen and not to be reckoned
Thus beam the Ode to Service
The force that binds and builds
-Mother A.Mangalam
lynn eschbach 30+
Silvia Marinova 20+
Let us make life easy on us.
Let us be lovers and loved ones.
The Earth shall be left to no one.
http://www.rusoffagency.com/authors/shafak_e/forty/the_forty_rules.htm
A great book which expresses humbleness to me quite well.
And the author for TED :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq7QPnqLoUk - you may have heard this one. :)
Kate Blake 50+
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/elif_shafak_the_politics_of_fiction.html
Have sent off a request for her book.
Silvia Marinova 20+
Debra Smith 200+
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Kate Blake 50+
Not sure how ‘modesty’ got into this discussion, but I personally have no problem with the human form being realistically betrayed, or others knowing their personal strengths!
You imply that we will set up a high moral court and judge those without this quality? Not my agenda and doubt anyone else wants to go there either! But thanks for making us think!
These guidelines caught my attention because I frequently worked with people bought up in state institutions or who ‘worship’ medications of their choice; sport and other things. That is their choice and fine for them but as their children grow they become very confused about values or morals – in that they strongly disagree with their parents choices but have no parameter/guide. As you know religions can create complications.
The Human Rights Lawyer who presented the workshop said that they are being used in schools, prisons and other settings around the world. But they have found each sub-group assign different meanings to the ‘terms’ ... and as nothing is hard or fast I thought to open such a discussion on TED. You and Gisela, both very strong women, see ‘humility’ as a manipulative tool – why is that? Maybe I have the good fortune to have met genuinely humble people who never cease to impress me.
Am by no means suggesting that we judge others for having or not having ‘humility’ ... my question asks for your interpretation or perspective; how it relates to your life and is it of benefit? Although no longer working with the children mentioned above I could imagine that this would be a great tool to start with. But I am definitely open to other suggestions?
Kate Blake 50+
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Kate Blake 50+