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Can You Control Your Mind? or do you discipline your mind?
EDITED: A lady recently asserted that our world is a ‘mess’; economically, environmentally, socially, politically, in conflict interpersonally up to internationally; because this reflected the state of the minds of those in power. [Discussion suggests its our 'collective' confused minds that have created this MESS!]
She claimed that their minds, jump all over the place, too busy, tense and agitated. Their thoughts, she said, were distracted, noisy, confused, scattered and often fearful.
Her claim was that if they would take the time to cease their mental chatter occasionally then they would be better able to stay focused and clear. That their thought patterns would become more calm, flexible and compliant.
This lead me to wonder ...
do you discipline your mind?
can you quiet the mental chatter?
Maintain clear and focussed thoughts?
How do you personally do that? Please give some references?
[Discussion has said we should learn to 'discipline' our minds; two say it's very easy to learn, like driving a car; the majority feel it's difficult to maintain the discipline considering our busy lives ...]
what do you think?
Closing Statement from Kate Blake
Great discussion, thanks to all those who joined in, and to TED for the forum.
The conclusion would be that we all seem to have scattered busy minds and it is strongly recommended by those who participated that we should indeed give high priority to learning to discipline our minds! Quieten our chaotic thoughts, with meditation being the main tool suggested. There are links and books and other methods recommended below and it is good reading ... enjoy!
Are you up for the challenge?
Silvia Marinova 20+
As a person studying the mind it's really interesting what you've asked us here.
Imagine now a big bowl of ice-cream or a chocolate bar of a favourite brand.
They are in front of you, you can get them and consume! But you don't really wanna eat now.
Well, it's as simple as that - sometimes you want, sometimes you don't; sometimes you eat, sometimes you don't.
It's not about control but it's more about the needs you have. So the more positive the need the better the consumption.
Then again we sure as heck can try to monitor our actions! (as Helen said!) :)
Kate Blake 50+
Silvia Marinova 20+
Yuri Gomez
If we believe and know, the repatterning of our mind is possible!, then We are agreed, we are not our minds?
Kate Blake 50+
Both our mind and our body are constantly changing; the body is aging from the moment we are born; the mind is a constant myriad of thought ... and we can reprogram both. For example get fit, lose weight, but does that mean we are neither body or mind? Then what are we? ]wow, that's a whole other topic!]
Yuri Gomez
Yeah, "what are we?"! it is a whole topic per se!
What I meant is: we are more than mind or body, once we realize this, the intention and power to repattern the mind arises clearly.
I found a great source of knowledge from the work of Bruce H. Lipton and Sol Luckman. I hope it helps...
Kate Blake 50+
Bob Van Oosterhout 20+
I think the term "healthy" needs to be clarified. Iin order to control our thinking effectively we need to get rid of built up muscle tension. I have worked with people who had serious illnesses and severe pain who were able to learn to control their minds. Chronic muscle tension puts our body and mind into "fight-or-flight" mode where all functions not necessary for physical survival are diminished. Tension narrows our focus and pulls our mind toward negative thinking. Getting rid of tension and maintaining balance is a prerequisite to learning to control your mind.
IMRAN UNAL
This way you can make sense totally,I hope so
Kate Blake 50+
Bob Van Oosterhout 20+
Thomas Jones 100+
(I posted my earlier reply before I read this ^^)
Bob Van Oosterhout 20+
I stretch and do grounding upon waking and then meditate after a time of reading and reflection. I repeat a rhythm phrase throughout the day whenever my mind is free (driving, walking, doing physical work etc.)
The second file is a typo it is windows media file that can be played with Windows Media Player. The MP4 can be downloaded to a Mac, Ipod or MP3 player. (I did not set this up and am not well versed in the technology). Bottom line, if you have windows download the wmv, if you have mac, use the mp4. I have windows and it downloads automatically into Windows media player when I click on the link.
Bob Van Oosterhout 20+
It is important to consider how many of the drivers/programmers in our lives serve our best interests. What does television and the media culture tell us is real and important? How does the structure of schools contribute to helping us develop brains and patterns of thinking that allow us to live effective, fulfilling lives. If learning to control our minds was as common as learning to drive (I would maintain it is much more important) and we asked some simple questions like “What do we need to live peaceful, effective lives?” our world could be a much different place.
Bob Van Oosterhout 20+
and http://exp.lcc.edu/users/bobv/weblog/2a3da/Meditation.html
Getting rid of built-up tension and maintaining balance is critical for this process. Additional related videos are available at
http://www.bobvanoosterhout.com/id113.html
Kate Blake 50+
Does it work for you personally?
Bob Van Oosterhout 20+
Kate Blake 50+
Am totally enjoying the interaction between you and Thomas ... gives us amateurs some more ideas! Thanks for participating!
Currently trying to download 'Clearing your Mind', but firstly downloading is difficult; secondly not sure if my computer can 'read' mp4 or wmv ... know it does mp3, no idea what wmv is? Can anyone with technical knowledge help me out here please?
Babatunde Adebayo
Kate Blake 50+
Bakul Valambhiya (Mistry)
Kate Blake 50+
Agree that we need to develop or focus on the goodness that is in all our hearts.
Helen Hupe 30+
Kate Blake 50+
Joe Delsen 20+
Maybe Paul Kraugman is right: “Bad ideas flourish because they are in the interest of powerful groups” (often cited at globalissues.org)
If businesses are simply catering to the "feeble" demands of consumers, then perhaps we are also contributing into this "powerful groups". Hence my mantra that we should ignite our hearts and minds to transform the systems of this world.
Kate Blake 50+
Agree that we must all contribute to this 'messy' world, and keeping focus on positive ideas is the way to go. And engaging our hearts and minds in a meaningful way can only benefit ourselves and others!
Can you tell us - no website references - how you do this in one TED post?
Joe Delsen 20+
Trusting our leaders today with our complex problems also requires an organized information and social network systems that reinforces our democratic principles of justice (accountability) and truth (transparency). We attack our problems in all fronts: (1) Put out crises and avoid devastating risks (2) leaders formulate and implement a just political and sustainable economic system (3) leaders transform our industries (4) we the people participate and make our governments work and (5) we directly participate in our individual or collective capacities in transforming our world.
What I think we need to see also is an information system that shows the progress of all our efforts so that many of us can contribute in the part of our solutions that needs more focus. With our digital world today, we have the power to do it. On the web, on the day that we're hitting high the websites that are dedicated to transforming our world, that will be the day I believe that our work and our hope is standing on solid grounds.
Kate Blake 50+
Thomas Jones 100+
No. But we can direct our attention and we can "discipline" the mind.
QUOTE: "Quiet the mental chatter?"
Yes. And we can go beyond the chatter. We cannot stop it completely - but we can go to "places" it cannot reach.
QUOTE: "Maintain clear and focussed thoughts?"
Yes and No. We can continuously bring our minds back on target. And they will continuously wander off topic.
QUOTE: "Do you agree with her statements above?"
Yes, to a degree: Our collective social institutions are a reflection of our collective thinking.
------------------
There is a good possibility the woman was a Buddhist or an advocate of Buddhism. Monkey-mind is a common Buddhist term that refers to the capricious, undisciplined mind.
Kate Blake 50+
From what I'm told on very good authority some people are actually able to stop all mental chatter. Some for a few seconds, some up to four hours or longer. They seem to be able to maintain clear and focused thought/action.
Would love to hear if there is any TEDsters who can do this?
Thomas Jones 100+
Yes, there are experiences that can be described that way - and it is even possible that some people can actually stop all mind chatter - but I suspect what is more likely happening is they are simply reaching a state of awareness that transcends thought.
The thoughts still happen but awareness is elevated to the point of stillness - beyond the thoughts as it were.
There are two good metaphors for this: an astronaut leaving the atmosphere is "liberated" from the confines of the earth and its atmosphere although both still exist and; a jet plane exceeding the speed of sound - the sound made by the jet still exists but the pilot cannot hear it.
Kate Blake 50+
Thomas Jones 100+
Yes, there are many experiences that "transcend thought" - most of us (I suspect) have such experiences at some time or another.
Athletes, artists, musicians, dancers, lovers, martial artists, and others, often speak of "peak" experiences or "flow" when thinking and effort stop and there is simply a pure expression of creativity. No thought.
And of course, there are many forms of ritual, meditation, and mindfulness that lead to similar states.
My recommendation is, if this interests you, keep an open mind and pursue anything you feel will help you reach your objective.
I believe, life and nature are self-regulating and this principle manifests in our lives in many ways - if we eat well and exercise, we are more likely to be healthy than if we don't; and, if we aspire to know something (anything) and are open to seeing and learning, the opportunity to do so will present itself.
There is an old saying, "When the student is ready, the teacher will come."
QUOTE: "Do you practice this yourself?"
Yes. [Although the pronoun "this" might be misleading.]
QUOTE: "What progress have you noticed?"
This question has no relevance within my frame of reference.
IMRAN UNAL
And than,we can control our mind especially for important decision but not all the time because
As Neurologic we have two important decision area 1) cortex 2) limbic system so sometimes we
cannot control the latter.
Kate Blake 50+
That might leave someone like me - older and a body with life's scars - may never get to work on my mind ... ?
IMRAN UNAL
I mean that We should have regular sleeping time, eat a well-balanced diet and
during the day some specific hours keep to be awake(after 1hour sunrise and before 1hour sunset)
It's like a philosophy of the mind so this way you can support yourself with positive feedback in order to gain some habits.Like our cells in the body,they are well-designed,well-controlled and always they use feedback mechanisms either positive or negative.
Kate Blake 50+
Any references for this philosophy? Do you do it yourself? What results or progress do you see?
IMRAN UNAL
I recommend you firstly Masnawi,I think it will help you
Kate Blake 50+
Muhammad Aizat Zainal Alam 30+
Thomas Jones 100+
See, we can't really "control" the mind.
Muhammad Aizat Zainal Alam 30+
Thomas Jones 100+
Even the great Arjuna said, "the mind is restless, turbulent, obstinate and very strong... and to subdue it, I think, is more difficult than controlling the wind."
Kate Blake 50+
Bob Van Oosterhout 20+
Thomas Jones 100+
I can spend days without thinking of an elephant. And I could even spend the next three minutes not thinking of an elephant if I focussed exclusively on anything other than an elephant ... like reading these posts.
But I could not spend one second not thinking of an elephant if I try to not think of an elephant.
That's what I mean when I say we cannot control or minds but we can direct our attention.
You engage in your daily practice and you are directing your awareness but as soon as you stop ... you will think of an elephant. Or whatever random thought your mind comes up with.
Allow me to demonstrate: For the next several days, whenever you engage in your daily practice, you will think of an elephant. Over time this will fade and you will no longer think of elephants.
Now, watch and see what happens. You will think of elephants.
Let us know how it goes.
Bob Van Oosterhout 20+
We think of elephants when you say the word elephant because the concept of elephants is stored in a specific location or network in our brain and hearing “elephant brings us to that place
I would need to repeat that thought or create associations in my memory to establish enough of a neural linkage to think of elephants when I go through my daily routine. I choose not to do that.
We can control our thoughts.
Thomas Jones 100+
If we can control our thoughts, when you next engage in your daily practice, I guarantee you you will not think of elephants.
If we can direct our attention but not control our thoughts, I can assure you, you will think of an elephant when you next engage in your daily practice. It may be at the beginning, during, or shortly after but you will think of an elephant.
It may well be a blue elephant. Standing on one leg, singing and juggling small furry creatures with one hand and holding a glass of champagne in the other. And, when you think of it, it will make you laugh.
Bob Van Oosterhout 20+
Thomas, Please explain the difference. Directing awareness and controlling thought seem very similar to me. If we are able to direct our awareness toward or away from (or to put it more accurately from my perspective, to let go of) an particular thought, then it would seem that we are controlling our thinking. We are determining the content and direction. They may be distractions but if we are able to let go of them and redirect, it would seem that we are in control. I use the term perceptual flexibility. We can develop the capacity to switch perceptions and to recognize when we are viewing through a narrow frame. A loud noise or elephant in weird clothes may grab our attention for a moment but we can then continue on our mental journey without interference.
Thomas Jones 100+
Yes, I agree with all you say; it's just that what your are describing I do not define as "control," I define it as directing and disciplining.
There are lots of analogies in nature: Brownian motion, the weather, the path of a subatomic particle, a horse (which can be directed but not "controlled" in the absolute sense,) etcetera.
One could say the content of our awareness is determined by particular neuronal networks, each one affected by an intricate web of synaptic connections, neurotransmitters, temperature, sensory input, and so on. In theory, a single different synaptic connection will result in a different discreet thought - it might be a meaningless thought (say a blue elephant) but it is a thought nonetheless. We cannot control this process completely; it is too complex, too subtle and is governed by natural laws that are unaffected by our "will."
This is not to say we cannot do all that you say in your last post: we can condition our mind to focus in a particular direction, we can "bring it back on topic" when we find it has wandered off with a dancing elephant, and so on. We can discipline and direct it. And, as I am sure you know, we can attain a state of awareness that transcends the "chatter" of the mind. As if we are elevated above the random musings and synaptic gymnastics it simply performs in its normal course of operation.
But that is not the same as "controlling our thoughts."
In 1968, Pyotr Anokhin calculated that the minimum number of potential thought patterns the average brain can make is the number 1 followed by 10.5 million kilometers of typewritten zeros. A strip of paper ten-point-five million kilometers long would encircle the world 262 times. Driving at 120 kph, eight hours a day, it would take about 30 years to drive that far.
Mireille Chéry
Yes, if you are srtong enough within yourself, you can certainly accept others "that really have your best at heart" to help you grow.
There is good people on this planet, and there is bad people on this planet, in eitheir case, I don't put my trust in "men" (woman or man), I will certainly attach and be more open to the ones that want the best for me, and vice versa.
I rather put my trust in God and do what I can do to become the best human being that I can be, by doing so, hopefully, someone could imitate me and do the same himself of herself and etc. Just being a great example, change people mind also !
Peace Kate !
Julie Ann 10+
Kate Blake 50+
Makes me giggle even thinking of our politicians and multi-national board members having a quiet five minutes to meditate, or collect their thoughts, before beginning business.
Julie Ann 10+
As far as politicians go, I think the ego has superceded the rational mind, to our detriment. Meditation may not be the answer to their problems. :-)
Kate Blake 50+
I think she might be right about the messy world being a reflection of our minds, so maybe starting with ourselves instead of faceless politicians might be more practical?
Julie Ann 10+
Kate Blake 50+
Sanyu Nagenda
The mind is just a very sophisticated learning and storage device. It does what our intentionality tells it to do and programs itself based on each individual's actions and reactions. Loosen up those mind joints by doing something COMPLETELY OUT OF THE ORDINARY FOR YOURSELF if you feel you can't control your mind. Then your mind will have a "WHAT THE F*CK WAS THAT?" moment and you'll realize it's just a very well trained meat machine. Ultimately it's gotta do what you tell it to. You just gotta be careful because it programs by conscious and subconscious desires, actions, behavioral patterns, etc.
The person in control must be vigilant (the mind is quite clever after all, it'll convince you that habit is better than innovation if you let it lay dormant long enough), observant and flexible. Courage and creativity never hurt anybody in the "control position" either.
By the way, who is this "lady?" Tell her to get on TED Conversations ASAP!
Kate Blake 50+
I certainly believe that our mind controls far more than most of us would like to think .... what is a thought? You are so right about being confused and side-tracked if we indulge our mental chatter. But most people are not even aware of it, let alone how to turn it off!
Don't for one second believe that many minds are too well trained at all! I think they have developed strong and usually unhealthy patterns from being under the control of desire, habit and confusion. Ever wondered why we are often indecisive? Our mind doesn't even know if it wants cereal or toast for breakfast ... how do we make major life decisions clearly and in our best interests?
Do you know many who can stay focused and follow through efficiently and effectively on the task that they initially set out to do?
Sanyu Nagenda
I'm flattered to hear that you've enjoyed my conversation! I'm happy to engage in conversation with a person who has considered my input!
A thought is a perception, in my opinion. It can be simple like, "RUN DANGER" or more complex like, "does every sun have a galaxy?" (Naturally my personal thought process believes that one is "simple" and another "complex." Really it's all quite impressive).
It's very true that most people aren't aware of their mental chatter, but it is still their mental chatter. When they become more aware of what of their existence is genuinely of their own making, intention and acceptance, "they" will then have a much better idea of what mental chatter was impressed on them involuntarily.
Minds are not very well trained, because we as a species are not very good at socializing one another. There have been societies that have been very good at socializing one another, many of them have been killed off, oppressed, etc. It seems we as a historical species have also greatly feared power (not to be confused with force), and there is no power like self-control!
It is also true that in consumer-encouraged societies such as the one I live in (the US), people are saturated with inane choices that really have no relevance to the quality of their existence. Shopping has become a way to show your independence! I mean, it's a joke. "Be an individual by buying the shit that we want EVERYONE ELSE TO BUY." That's hardly a major life decision, but it's amazing how much it consumes so many peoples lives. Still, we control our actions - even in our ability to resist. It is our responsibility to have self-control over our individual self, there is no getting around that.
And yes, I do know people who can stay focused and follow through efficiently and effectively on tasks they initially set out to do. But that is intentional and I don't keep company with many people on account of this! I have a tribe that I intentionally coexist with.
Kate Blake 50+
Let's all take responsibility for our actions and our thoughts?!
Sanyu Nagenda
Mireille Chéry
Well, if manipulators can control YOUR mind, and make you do, sometimes thinks that you don't want to do, IF someone else can easily change your mind, WHY would you not be able to CHANGE YOUR OWN MIND?
You have more control over your mind then anybody else !
I have a friend, his going to a divorce right now ! The wife decided of it, because she said that the husband was too controlling, and now, she's going to see a psychologist to help her... she doesn't want to let herself control by her husband, but she goes to see a psychologist, the most control people on earth!
Yes you can change your mind. It not an easy task, because our flesh, want to do things that the mind don't want to do. The problem with the flesh is CHANGING, the flesh do not want to change, and this is why is so hard for any human, to CHANGE, just this word sound hard. The truth is, we are all here to CHANGE.
EXAMPLE : If you are thinking about going to do the dishes let say. But your flesh is being lazy, and will try to postpone it etc., and you see yourself doing something totally different, and at the end, you don't feel fufill, because what you were suppose to do, you did not get to it.
So I deeply believe that it is absolutely imperative to take control of your mind, mainly for 2 important things:
1) No one would manipulate you again, if you do WHAT you want to do, and don't care, if you desapoint someone or not. Do something because you want to do it, not to please someone, because you don't want to hurt them or else.
2) You will feel more fufill, more happier, more loved and also respected by yourself and your pears.
Your mind have your best interest in "mind", if you align it, to the best in you : positivity, joy, peace, LOVE, respect, courage, strenght, hope, health, your beautiful spirit, that still little voice, will intruct and teach you the way you should go and become the change you should be, to become the best you can be !
Peace dear Kate !
Kate Blake 50+
But you are very right if we take more control, more responsibility, for our own state of mind then we do become more content, more calm and far more attractive to others ....
Helen Hupe 30+
Kate Blake 50+
Helen Hupe 30+
Kate Blake 50+
Helen Hupe 30+
Kate Blake 50+
You are actually understanding that giving into this 'habit' might hurt others so you are taking control! Well done.
Thomas Jones 100+
Helen Hupe 30+
Thomas Jones 100+
I once had a friend who was schizophrenic. He was a really nice guy and very, very unique.
He would audibly respond to the "voices" in his head while we were having a conversation so it took a bit of effort to figure out if he was responding to something I said or to something his mind had said.
Hmmmm ... now that I've written that out, it's not a lot different than many conversations I have had ... with people who are not schizophrenic.
He was always in a state of anxiety and he spoke like he was distressed all of the time. I used to respond to the tone in his voice and attempt to calm him down.
One day, I guess he had had enough of me trying to "help" and he said, "LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING NOT TO THE WAY I AM SAYING IT!!!!!"
So I did.
What he was saying was actually really beautiful.
Helen Hupe 30+
Kate Blake 50+
Tim blackburn 30+
Kate Blake 50+
Victoria Samra 10+
Kate Blake 50+
Victoria Samra 10+
For me, when I want to be disciplined, I just remove all external stimuli, take a B-12 pill and have at it. Sometimes singing helps too.
About leaders who seem to be undisciplined in mind, maybe it's because they are, maybe they've all got ADD and focusing comes naturally but sporadically.