A conversation on TED.com: We spend 3 billion hours a week as a planet playing videogames. Is it worth it? How could it be MORE worth it?

Jane McGonigal
San Francisco, CA
United States

Institute for the Future

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We spend 3 billion hours a week as a planet playing videogames. Is it worth it? How could it be MORE worth it?

Currently there are more than half a billion people worldwide playing computer and videogames at least an hour a day -- and 183 million in the U.S. alone. The younger you are, the more likely you are to be a gamer -- 99% of boys under 18 and 94% of girls under 18 report playing videogames regularly. The average young person racks up 10,000 hours of gaming by the age of 21 -- or 24 hours less than they spend in a classroom for all of middle and high school if they have perfect attendance. It's a remarkable amount of time we're investing in games. 5 million gamers in the U.S., in fact, are spending more than 40 hours a week playing games -- the equivalent of a full time job!

What accounts for the lure of games – and are we getting as much from our games as we’re giving them?

I explore these questions in my new book Reality is Broken – and I believe that, for most gamers, playing games is, surprisingly not a waste of time -- but rather quite productive. Gameplay may not contribute to the Gross Domestic Product… but scientific research shows that gameplay does contribute to our quality of life, by producing positive emotions (such as optimism, curiosity and determination) and stronger social relationships (when we play with real-life friends and family – especially if the game is co-operative). And for gamers who prefer tough, challenging games, they can build up our problem-solving resilience -- so we learn faster from our mistakes, and become resilient in the face of failure.

However... not all games power-up our real lives. Some games, at the end of the day, make us feel stupid for having wasted so much time on them.

So: How do we know when we're playing a good game -- and when would we be better off doing something "real"?

GAMERS: What's one thing you wish non-gamers would understand about your favorite games, and what you get out of playing them?

NON-GAMERS: What's one thing you wish a gamer would explain about games today, and why they play?

Related Talks:

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- Nicole Lazzaro
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  Feb 18 2011: How do you feel about playing Charades face to face in real life?
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Bob Fleck
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Mar 14 2011: According to a recent UK study, only about 5% of video games are made by women who are in positions that have an effect on how those games are made.

We need to work at improving the gender balance of game creators.
Sargis B.
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Mar 11 2011: Hi Jane, something I've realized during my own research of games, gamers and their psychology is that when you tell them a game can make a difference, they seem to think it's going to be a boring game with terrible graphics, taking them back to stressful reality. It just doesn't seem FUN! And I have to bloody agree with them. There are a good few "world-changing games" out there but they would normally seem fun and easy to play by people who actually use their brains. Most gamers don't. They just press buttons. We expect them to think about changing the world? Many of them have a hard time considering whether they should change underwear they've been wearing for two weeks. We need to understand them to convince them.

You yourself stated in your talks, big fan btw, that games are a form of escape. Problem is I've noticed that many gamers seem to think world changing games ... aren't games. Some even went as far as to say that such games seemed liked Trojan horses trying to enter and spoil their humble haven of fun and excitement lol. So at the end of the day, it pretty much just comes down to perception. You need to first get gamers to play before pondering on how the game(s) can make a difference. So game designers in this "genre" need to consider how these games come across first and foremost before anything else.

Another thing I noticed is that many people seemed to shun off the idea of playing such games. They didn't want to admit it but eventually they said that they didn't like even the idea of such games because they thought they weren't smart or capable enough to play them. So this "realization" of theirs totally destroyed any excitement towards such games right from the start. This is something else that designers need to take into consideration.

Again. It's all about PERCEPTION in my opinion. When people play MMO's, they know that ANYONE can play them. There are no drawbacks except whether or not your PC has specs capable of running the game.

2 Cents
Nicholas Lukowiak 30+
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Mar 11 2011: From a lot of video games come lessons of conserving, rationing, reasoning, logic, planning, strategy, accuracy (arguable), patience, practice, team work, the list goes on. It isn't fair to even consider video games as a problem (If that is what you are doing) how many hours and how much money does gambling use? How many people use the internet for porn over learning? Plenty of other hobbies/addictions take up much more time by many more people.

However if you are honestly curious in the addiction of video games, that really depends on the game.

games like world of warcraft have an "other world" effect on people where they can escape to and be someone else who can do impossible things

video games to me are for the mind to break free from reality and mix it with unreality.
Ambrose Reade
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Mar 11 2011: Make popular games a learning tool, give children real thought provoking problems to handle in a game. Games like WOW or COD could easily be manipulated to award gamers with achievments for actually learning something in a game as well as having fun with friends while doing it, i think the possiblities are just opening. Modern kids love thier computers, its part of thier social fabric, we should encourage learning through it not make them feel ashamed for enjoying it more than books or school. When i say real learning games i dont mean the crap like on nintendo (brain training) games like that only teach a child to remember certain answers, it doesnt teach. Give the child a real problem in a game; mathamatical, ethical or moral for example so that he/she and thier friends can learn and solve these problems together, sureley they'd have to turn thier consoles off sometime to gain answers.
Christopher Beck 20+
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TED Attendee

Mar 9 2011: UCSF (and others as well) are doing research into this question as it relates to the aging process. Video Games used by aging population can actually have a positive impact on memory and potentially slow the impact of dementia.
Harshit Sonthalia
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Mar 9 2011: Well gaming for me simply is the best way to pass my time...
It entertains me and at times influences me to use my brain....
Gaming for me is not just a source of entertainment but also a medium of knowledge..
I like playing Tycoon games...
Thanks to those games that build up interest in me to start a business...
I am opting for commerce in my +2.....and I owe my this decision to those tycoon games...
So Gaming is one of the finest way to build up interest in a Child (especially)..
Adam Brown
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Mar 9 2011: I got my first computer aged 9 or 10 and was writing games not much longer after that. I loved being immersed in the programming language and learnt a massive amount through that. But that’s not my point.

I still play games (I’m late 30’s…..) and have just finished one which kept me thoroughly entertained for several weeks. To me it was my interactive book, the escapism that many get from reading novels and to me that’s what games are. Books, games, films are all the same sort of entertainment. I know that it’s not real and I knew that when I was playing games aged 10.

I think far too much is being read into gaming, if done with a little common sense it can be entertaining, educational and inspirational.

My daughter who is two and a half is learning how to use a mouse and understand usability standards by playing games on line. They also teach her about the world, alphabet etc. Many revolve around stories.

So for me gaming is another form of entertainment like books and films but when done right can also be educational.
Bill Barhydt 100+
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TED Attendee

Mar 7 2011: Jane, your talk was one of my favorites from TED2010.

I struggle with this question you pose every single day. In my house it's called screen time. Wii, iPod Touch, Macs, TV, etc all fall into the screen time category but the most coveted screen time by the under 11 crowd is games.

The problem we mortals face in competing for kids' attention is that video game makers are better at grabbing and holding attention than parents, teachers and most other people in the average child's life. The lure of gaming comes down to two things: one, what is the alternative in the mind of the child, and two, the addiction to the stimulus being created via these games. There are positives and negatives to both of these factors.

Can we take the positive aspects of these two factors and leverage them and gaming to the benefit of society or do we end up becoming overraught with all the negative aspects of these factors no matter what we do?

We simply don't know the answer to this question and therein lies the danger. Who wants their child to be the guinea pig to figure this out knowing that when we receive our answer it could be too late to reverse any damage which may have been done.

On the other hand, if we as a society could figure out a way to jack ourselves into the Matrix without losing ourselves to the addiction while creating a real-time simulation with an ultimate sense of community, there are probably no problems we couldn't solve together. I hope I live long enough to know the answer to these questions.
mark kausche 10+
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Feb 27 2011: the one question i would like to ask gamers is, how has gaming contributed to the childhood obesity epidemic in north america?
- Sabin Muntean 30+
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  Host Associate
  
  Feb 28 2011: Whereas video games do usually mean sitting in front of a computer or a console, I doubt that they are a decisive factor in childhood obesity.
  
  You don't get fat because you spend an hour or two playing games, you get fat because you don't exercise besides that, because you eat unhealthy food etc.
  
  Plus, the new trend in fitness games is actually fighting this problem. I know of at least two friends who don't exercise much otherwise, but who regularly play Wii Fit. It appears to be more fun to lose weight and gain points and achievements at the same time than to just lose weight. :D
  - mark kausche 10+
    
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    Feb 28 2011: very good points Sabin,but i wonder how many young people are playing wii fit for 40 hours a week,one of the problems which has been brought up is when people are gaming they have easy access to food ie fridge etc,do you feel there is any rational in this argument?
- Jeremy Ogram
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  Mar 2 2011: Terrible eating habits are probably a far bigger concern, playing video games doesn't cause a child to be obese. If the child is eating to much and eating the wrong types of food chances are they won't have the energy to do something physical.
  
  Video games contribute in a small way, but I still see parents in the grocery store buying cases of pop, potato chips, several bags of cookies, cereals that are more of a desert than a breakfast and then stopping at McDonald's on the way home.
- Kat Moore
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  Mar 4 2011: What Jeremy Ogram said. We are saturated with marketing to consume those empty calories.
  
  Not only that, there has been a parenting trend towards hyper-vigilance in the last few decades. Kids are kept indoors instead of being sent outside to play. They learn to be sedentary. I'm not advocating for careless parenting, but I feel sorry that kids don't have the same freedom to roam that I had.
Dan Sheehan
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Mar 2 2011: Interesting. Is it an addiction? What are the statistics for those who are game so much; is there a commonality such as an inability to moderate. Do these same people have the same "extremeness" when it comes to other actions and endeavors? Do they posses a greater focus. I think it is like a drug to some in that it lets them escape reality. If I had kids I would certainly be worried about it.
- Kat Moore
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  Mar 4 2011: We're all susceptible to addictive behavior; and gamers have the same addiction curve as any other segment of society. Some are not addicted at all, some are habitual users whose lives function quite well, and a few cannot control themselves.
  
  People who are prone to extreme additive behavior will exhibit that tendency in many ways. The overall population of gamers has about the same level of addicts as any other socially acceptable activity such drinking, gambling, etc.
Annelise Larson
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Feb 21 2011: I swear my husband has been trying to convince me of this for years - although he said he was practising for an evenutal alien invasion :-)

I am very curious to see how gamers could make the leap from what is often an escape from the real world, to facing real world problems and challengs head on through game play.

Although I was a gamer in my pre-mom days now I have no time to do so and would qualify myself as more of a non-gamer. I would love a current gamer to explain to me if it is truly an escape.

Does playing in an online world make you feel more or less connected to the real world?
- Horbaniuc Vlad
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  Mar 2 2011: I was a gamer and I can tell you that it is an escape to play games. It is challenging, it is relaxing, you can socialize etc.. What is wrong about it, is that you become addicted and most of the gamers can't stop playing, and they don't want to stop either. So it is your choice actually if you are connected or not to the real world.
  
  Anyway I think nobody can explain a non-gamer who you fill like, so you should start playing.
  The problem is that games now-days are to complex for a begging to start and play and fell the pleasure of it immediately. So you can't just play World of Warcraft if you don't know how to use the keyboard, you don't know the spells, you don't know the basic skills, I bet you don't even know what XP, AP, MP means and what are they used for.
  
  So that's why if you really want to give it a shoot you should start easy games that suits you.
  Strategy games, Logical Games, Adventure Games, there are s many games right now that it is impossible not to find one that you like. Tell me what you would like to play and I can recommend you a game.
- Kat Moore
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  Mar 4 2011: Playing online makes me feel more connected...I learn constantly, and interact with people who have similar interests to mine, which I do not find locally.
  
  Also, I am past the age of parenting, and all my nieces and nephews are grown, but many of my online friends are parents, and depending on their childrens' ages, may or may not have the kids online with them, too.
  
  I can truly say some of the most joyful moments I've had recently have been playing with kids too young to be 'chatting' and interacting with me only through our characters in the virtual world. Kind of like getting down on the floor to play 'dolls' with them =)
  
  As a mom, if you don't have time to play, how do you recharge your happiness batteries? I'm only saying this because your statement makes it sound like you are too busy working--but of course there are many ways to play! Online gaming just happens to be the current one.
Alexander Voiskounsky
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Mar 4 2011: Has anyone given a due attention to the fact that we are having the FIRST generation of adults (mostly young, but with children) who keep playing EN MASSE the games they used to play in their teens (well, maybe not always the same games, but the same type of games)? Civilization has changed: the time given to work (or college studies, or business, etc.) plus homework does not cover a full non-sleepy week, and spare time can be given to a hobby, mainly to gameplaying, three billion hours a week.
Thus, gaming can be seen not entirely as a personal dimension, it is a gift from the whole civilization.
Laurens Rademakers 50+
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Mar 4 2011: .
Perhaps the last thing we should do is to make games "useful".

In our modern lives, too many of our activities are forced to be "useful" and utilitarian. Children (and indeed adults) have lost almost all room to play. Even play itself has been "pedagogized". Everything we do has to "teach us a lesson".

Let's not make games "good", or "useful" or "purposeful". The entire goal of games is for them to be games - pure play, fantasy, uselessness.

The social, psychological, economic and cultural value of the useless and of "wasting time" cannot be underestimated.

I think we play too few useless games and don't spend enough time on them.
- Sabin Muntean 30+
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  Host Associate
  
  Mar 4 2011: I see the point you're making, but somehow I cannot fully agree with it.
  A game does not have to be purpose driven only, to this I agree, but I still feel that a good game should do more than offer you a pastime activity, it should challenge and inspire and even teach, just like a good book or a good movie should.
  I'm not saying noone should create "useless" games, but in my opinion they just aren't worth playing as other games are.
Laurens Rademakers 50+
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Mar 4 2011: I wanted to add: an interesting read on the value of the useless (i.e. senseless/non-utilitarian/non-pedagogic games) is the anthropology of french philospher Georges Bataille - who writes beautifully on the need for excess, for pure senselessness, for pure "gifts". He builds on the theory of gift-economics, as a counter to capitalism. He pleads for excessive "wasting", excessive giving away, destroying material wealth for symbolic reasons (the socalled potlatch), and for "wasting one's time". The gift is highly related to useless games, he thinks, and so he pleads for a kind of excess in enjoying the useless. It is what makes us profoundly human. No other species can purposfully indulge in pure excessive uselesness. This work may help you write your book.

Bataille writes heavily against capitalism and the protestant ethic, which wants (according to him) to turn everything we do into a utilitarian, purposeful learning lesson. His writings about the excessive gift-logic in the games of ancient, decadent Byzantium are some of the finest in modern philosophy. In the end, Bataille thinks everything that makes life worth-wile, is excessive uselessness: above all, love, which is, for humans, not geared to reproduction, but to something beyond that. Love, laughter, giving, playing, sacrifice, even death are all signs of the excessive - and we're only human because we know these things. Without these, we'd be ordinary animals.
Debra Smith 100+
- +2
Mar 2 2011: Video games are the ideal vehicle for teaching young men phsyics, statistics, trigonometry and a variety of other sciences. Why make up bogus tasks that teach them nothing when knowledge could be built into the games in such a rewarding and palitable manner? This would make the time spent on games pay the user and society back.

Secondly, real world unsolved problems could be incorporated into upper level game play to make the games endlessly challenging and to harness the greatness of the minds that are gaming.
- Carole Richards
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  Mar 3 2011: Why young men? Why not young men and women? Just curious, as I've been gaming for close to 20 years, and and as much as the gaming community used to be male dominated, it's been my experience that the situation has changed. I currently game with a group that is split at about half and half male/female.
  - Debra Smith 100+
    
    0
    Mar 4 2011: Wow! That is great news! Thanks for keeping me honest! I was not aware of a significant female interest in this type of game.
Matthew Baron
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Mar 3 2011: Isnt it obvious
Damali Morgan
- +1
Mar 3 2011: I am a chix0r for more than 20 years now. The evolution of the video game has spawned creative outlets for the gamer and production teams alike. Something as simple as the determination and tenacity to build your own computer for better game play or the wit to learn development to create a bot (automated program to assist in game play), gives kids and adults alike the motivation and testing environment to learn and create new facets of technology.

What's one thing you wish non-gamers would understand about your favorite games, and what you get out of playing them?
1) Social interaction with domestic and international friends. I have friends I have known for a lifetime that I would have otherwise lost contact with over the years, and new friends made through the healthy competition of game play in foreign countries. International and local friends that I have met using the foundation of "a game".

2) Business contacts obtained based solely on the efficiency and execution of game play, an example of your strategic skills, teamwork, and leadership can be a great first sign of your real life capabilities.

3) Those that play together stay together. My Husband and I have played video games for years together, fell in love, and still play together now. We have a great time both in and out of the game and gives a break from the daily routine of work and parenting.

4) Let’s not forget gaming isn't just about rocking people’s faces off. You have video games that educate and promote the ability to multitask. My children learn anything they can get their hands on through a computer. Your baby can read? My baby can read and program!

Yes there is this thing called Sun that we need and fresh air, but that is what Laptops are for =)

*My Nephew made a bot for his video game. While I was proud he took the time to learn how to program, I had to teach him that Real Gamers don't use bots and rely on skill. His Reply "That's old school and inefficient"*
James Cullumber
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Mar 3 2011: A video game to me is a world with many in-worlds in itself. To explain, think of you driving a virtual car, with a lot of advancments, going somewhere around 150 MPH, and then you crash right into a wall. What happened? You crashed. What you have done to prevent the problem? Take evasive action. Was it unavoidable? Possibly. O.K. that's find and dandy for your virtual car, but what about your real car? same situation, but your car isn't pumped up to the point where you can go blazing down the road at 150 MPH, but your about to hit a wall, what do you do? You have what is called a "Pause Second", I call it, a moment in time where you brain switches from what happened to the virtual car to your real car and the body automatically moves to survive. You may get a few scratches here and there, along with a insane amount of money taken away, but your still alive.
How video game apply to us, is that someone made up of 1s and 0s you used showed you what to do. I have come from a family that believes that video games are a waste of time, I say otherwise.
To answer the question from the main post on the gamers side, is that they are who they are. You can tell them your favorite game that you played the whole time and gain from it and they won't even care one bit, which I think is pretty harsh, but it's just them. To hit the core of the question is the story, it's like watching a movie and playing at the same time but while at it, expecting something big to happen. That is another thing, the expect something to happen, either you make it happen or you don't, that is what the games have taught me. when non-gamers ask me "So what did you get out of the game?" The first couple of tries I was stunned, I just told them a story, what happened, and what I got in the game. Now latter on, I brush them off by ignoring them, and I share what I have learned freely, for example, Bioshock, it shows what happens when people grow too strong which leads to their utter destruction.
Sulan Dun
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Mar 3 2011: I have written some video games, and so far have had over 21 million page views from young people playing them.

How do you feel about that statement? Does it invoke a "what a waste of time and opportunity" feeling?

Does the feeling change if I tell you that the games are educational and have helped millions of students learn topics like balancing chemical equations or graphing on the coordinate plane that can be extremely challenging to grasp? That they are mostly used in the classroom or assigned for homework? And that they have let some students finally understand a hard Math or Science concept after days of frustration trying to learn them the conventional way?

Why do people hear "video game" and immediately have negative thoughts? Why is that different from "movie"? Both are often purely for entertainment, but some are very educational and uplifting. Yet to some a video game is always a waste of time, but not so for a movie. It's a strange prejudice - the only reason I can think of is that pretty much everyone has tried good modern movies, but not everyone has tried good modern video games.

If you are curious to try out my video games, please feel free to try them out at FunBasedLearning.com. All the games are completely free. The site's goal is to provide the best educational games for free to any child who can access the internet.

Sincerely, Sulan Dun sulan@dun.org
(P.S. If anyone at TED is interesting in meeting up, I'm just in Irvine 45 minutes drive south - drop me a line at sulan@dun.org)
Lukas Müller
- +1
Mar 2 2011: Having been a long time gamer in my childhood and youth myself, I would firstly argue that because games demand the gamer to immerse in their virtual reality, the gamer has to relearn and adapt to the different dynamics and rules of every game over and over again. Thus gamers are, at least virtually (=in the way their mind can operate) "shape changers". (depening somewhat on how large the actual differences between the games they play are)

Are gamers more flexible thinkers? If so, in what aspects of thinking?

Secondy - because games are fun - might gamers have a tendency to demand the world to be just as good?
Certainly some heavy-gamers do. This might be either bad - promoting an addiciton, because the real world is just not up to the task (besides graphics) or it might actually be good, because it inspires gamers to believe that another world is possible (certainly I do) and thus give a good reason for improving the real world.

Thirdly I would like to draw your attention to "Minecraft". Just Google it, watch some Videos on Youtube and try it. It's an interesting phenomenon, because it is one of those rare really new video game concepts.

One last thought: There is no reason for why video games shouldn't interact with reality. A network between virtual realities and the real world which in some way could make the gamer actually do something useful in RL (or for a start anything at all) could prove a very interesting concept.
Horbaniuc Vlad
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Mar 2 2011: Nice speech. Anyway I think we (gamers) have more "powers" than the ones you said. :)
MARGARET GRANDISON
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Feb 21 2011: Jane,
I was very energized by hearing you speak on NPR about your book and work with games. I am currently working with veterans and their families coming back from war, on active duty or veterans of former wars.The high rate of suicide and the costs to families, especially care taker spouses and children has gotten every mental health professionals attention. The national stigma against mental health services is much greater in the military. I was wondering if there was some way to have a "game" with returning "warriors" where lots of options are present (e.g. buying guns, alcohol); getting and losing jobs.....going for help for PTSD and not.....Just playing with ideas of ways to get the attention of those of would NEVER consider mental health services for themselves. Has this been done to your knowledge? Thanks for any feedback. Peg Grandison
- Horbaniuc Vlad
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  Mar 2 2011: There is one game, called Commandos. It is not exactly what you want, but it is a very nice strategical game and you don't really need to have very good gaming skills to play it.
Ben Jarvis 50+
- +2
Feb 21 2011: john lennon said "time you enjoyed wasting was not wasted" and i have to agree. games are a relaxing diversion. i think by trying to make them 'more worthwhile' we might in fact make them less so.
personally many of my best ideas come in the middle of or immediately following gaming (or showering, interestingly...(?))
- Horbaniuc Vlad
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  Mar 2 2011: That's because the creativity part of the brain comes in to roll.
  Read this http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/left-vs-right-brain-test-for-creativity-or-logic/
Chris Watson
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Mar 1 2011: Well, I must say I'm a bit of both. I play poker online and I enjoy it emencely. I find that the game provides a closed system of posibilities and I must compute my odds at every hand. I also must guage the nature of the other hands as well as the possible strategies that the other players are employing.

It's a card game, not a video game so I don't know how that fits into your study, but one thing I know for sure is that what I learn playing poker has had direct application to life situations in general. For instance, guaging ones position in a negotiation and comparing it to certain classes of situation at the table has yeilded a number of fitting anaogies that prove very useful. You have to "know" when to hold and "know" when to fold.

Games of all kinds provide us with metaphore and analogy to our real life problems, sometimes with solutions that would not otherwise be obvious without the game experience. How many times have we battled with someone on some issue and declared "Checkmate!" when we have them cornered? Or flipped a coin or gone "All in" on a venture? Games have served us well as tools of learning and mental exercize for centuries and centuries. Not all games are stimulating or challenging, Tic-tac-toe comes to mind, but most that we find engaging ARE engaging some aspect of our intellegence and testing it. We play to learn and learn to play.
Jeff Rodman 100+
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TED Attendee

Mar 1 2011: It's interesting to see there's not a lot of line-drawing in the dialogue below between video games and Parcheesi, Monopoly, and coin flipping. Games is games, is the message I get, and i think it's true. Granted, some of the newer games seem more engrossing.

One metric of interest is what would the player be doing otherwise? If the choice is between a person spending a weekend sitting in front of a screen playing Worlds of Warcraft, and that same person sitting in a pickup towing a speedboat to the lake to spend that weekend roaring around in front of a 250hp Evinrude, my inner treehugger says "stay in Azeroth, dude! Slay those monsters!"
Jeremy Ogram
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Feb 27 2011: The constant argument people that don't play videos will say is that they are a waste of time, they fail to realize that playing video games for almost everyone is a hobby. A hobby is something that is done for fun, it isn't supposed to be productive time, it is supposed to be relaxing, bird watching or painting isn't a waste of time to somebody that enjoys doing it.

While I do still play videos now, I don't play them as often as when I was younger, I generally have one game I play for a long period of time instead of constantly getting new games.

I am 32, I don't think my video game habits when I was a kid are the same as what kids are doing now, which seems to be a lot of them completely avoid going outside to do anything and only want to play video games. I didn't understand it for a long time, I wondered if they are just lazy, or if games are just that much better now from when I was a little.

I think kids are spending so much time playing video games now because they are very restricted in what they can do outside and at school. When I was going to elementary school during the winter everyone worked on snow forts, every group of friends had a fort, the entire school yard was filled with them, kids from kindergarten to grade 5 built snow forts everywhere. The school had areas for having snowball fights, if you were in that area, got hit by a tossed snowball and complained to a teacher they just told you not to go back in there. No schools around allow kids to build a snow fort, or throw a snowball, it is considered too dangerous. I realized that this is the reason why I don't see snow forts around houses anywhere, kids aren't allowed to build them at school with their friends so why would they build them at home?

The point of explaining that is that it gives one example of kids being told not to be kids when playing outside, they are over protected, the only place that kids might be a allowed to throw a snowball now is in a video game. The only place a young child is allowed to be a child is in video games.
- Sabin Muntean 30+
  - +1
  Host Associate
  
  Feb 28 2011: I fully agree with you, kids should be allowed to be kids!
  
  I was very happy to read a few days ago that a new law has been passed here in Germany stating that it is ok for children to make noise whilst they are playing and that neighbours and other residents just have to put up with it, it's part of human nature. Then again I also find it awkward that such a law is necessary in the first place.
Wes Sonnenreich
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Feb 17 2011: I'm fascinated by what makes games fun. I want to know why it's easy to sit in front of an MMO and undertake repetitive tasks that ultimately involve data analytics or project/team management yet doing the same thing in the work place is tiresome. Why does it have to be this way?

I want to create an audit process that feels like playing Diablo - collecting data like it was loot, and "leveling" up by crunching the stats and getting the perfect build. I want to hire the players who analyze games like GuildWars and find the "optimal" character build and playstyles and get them to dig around my ERP system to optimize my business processes. I want them to have the same amount of fun in that ERP system as they have in their game world.

I want to run a project team with 20+ people scattered over the country or world who can maintain focus on a collaborative task for 6-9 hours the way guild leaders can coordinate end-game raids in games like World of Warcraft. Better yet, I want to recruit these guild leaders to run these teams for me - after all, they've already been doing it successfully for years.

We are seeing new ways of working, new opportunities that require a set of skills that are not taught in school but ARE being taught in today's games. I believe that companies that recognize this and recruit accordingly will have access to a massive disruptive capability.
- Nicole Lazzaro
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  Feb 18 2011: I feel a big opportunity with games is to use game like interaction in a non-game contexts. We don't need to escape into games to get the benefit of game like interaction. Since Cyan created a game called Myst, I've been using games to inspire my interface design work for websites like BlogHer.com, encyclopedias like the Encyclopedia Britannica and Totally Mad (Mad Magazine), courseware like Chemistry of Life, enterprise software from Cisco, training games for Oracle, utilities such as Roxio's Easy CD Creator and Toast, and of course games like The Sims and Diner Dash. Games are the future of interaction design.
  
  Jane wrote a great white paper for the IFTF on the Engagement Economy that handily sums up a number of researchers on what makes games fun here: http://bit.ly/gWGuaP
- Reed Berkowitz
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  Feb 19 2011: "I'm fascinated by what makes games fun. I want to know why it's easy to sit in front of an MMO and undertake repetitive tasks that ultimately involve data analytics or project/team management yet doing the same thing in the work place is tiresome. Why does it have to be this way? "
  
  One of the reasons games are "fun" is because it is about the gamers' hopes and dreams. Accomplishment of other people's desires is work. This is a big issue in the Serious Gaming movement. You can't swap out the important content of people's hopes and dreams with your chosen goal or cause. It is always secondary to the player's personal needs and issues...
  
  That doesn't mean that the interface thing won't work. It will still feel like work but maybe work that is more fun or efficient and that would be amazing.
  - Wes Sonnenreich
    
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    Feb 20 2011: I agree that no amount of applied game design will significantly change how someone feels if they're working for someone/on something they don't love, believe in, care about, etc.
    
    I'm not sure that games are about hopes and dreams though. I don't think Spider Solitaire or Freecell taps into any of my hopes and dreams. I get a satisfaction from recognizing a pattern, but it's usually a sign that I need to stop playing when my dreams are of moving cards from stack to stack.
    
    But I think you're close. I think it's more like the inverse of hopes and dreams - it's about the lack of external consequence. I can lose at Freecell and it's ok, I can just start again. Or not. Interestingly, when I used to play it a lot and would get massive streaks, it stopped becoming "fun" because losing suddenly meant breaking a 600+ win streak. There was a lot at stake and it was easier not to play than to risk the loss. Suddenly, the game had external consequence because the streak represented a large investment in time.
    
    I think the trick to making serious games work in business is finding a way to remove external consequence. This can't be done within the game - it requires a change to the business model upon which the serious game is layered. This is why simulations are easy - they're just a learning tool so if you fail nothing is at risk. But I can't see anyone creating a "bejewelled" like interface to a nuclear power plant.
    - Reed Berkowitz
      
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      Feb 28 2011: I agree that most of the satisfaction received from simple non-story games is about something like "accomplishment". But you were referencing Diablo and MMOs which have significant story and imaginative elements.
      
      I like the idea of removing external consequences which would create a more flexible and accelerated learning environment. Maybe you could make an interface where consequences were not as large of an issue if you created a sandbox. Then when you finally beat the big boss (which represents a real world issue) your solution is recorded, tested, and acted on accordingly. So just like a real game only winning counts. The number of times you fail to gain the skills or achievement doesn't matter (except in terms of time). My instinct tells me this would be very difficult to create though...