A Conversation with GE
GE partnered with TED to launch TED Conversations. Here, their scientists and leaders engage with the TED community on key global issues.
Michael J. Barber
VP,
Healthymagination
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A conversation with GE: Why do we avoid making tough health choices? And, what could motivate us to behave differently?
Healthymagination is about better health for more people. We think that part of that mission is making information available to consumers so they can make the best health choices possible. Access to information also helps further the dialogue between patients and doctors.
The TED community embodies a sense of discovery, tackling difficult issues head on. In the spirit of both TED and healthymagination, we’d invite you to share your thoughts on why people avoid making tough health choices. And, what could motivate us to behave differently.
When it comes to seeing a doctor, even the most responsible people may push things off. Drawing on fields as diverse as psychology, technology, public health and behavioral economics, how can we explain why we remember to do our taxes but put off getting screened for serious conditions -- especially when we know that early detection offers the best outcomes? And, how can we design systems and tools that reverse this behavior?
We look forward to hearing your thoughts, perspectives, questions and experiences.
Closing Statement from Michael J. Barber, VP, GE Healthymagination
Well, TED community, now that our conversation has come to a close, I’d like to thank you all for sharing your thought-provoking questions and insightful ideas on patient behavior. I also want to thank Dr. Nancy Snyderman for participating and for bringing her valuable medical perspective to our discussion.
Over the course of the conversation, some key takeaways for me included:
+ It takes time to drive real change in community healthcare systems but it is worth the effort to increase access, decrease costs and improve the quality of healthcare.
+ Being smart and honest with our healthcare providers goes a long way no matter which country we live in.
+ We can save 100,000 lives a year by preventing hospital errors.
+ Learning about health early in life and developing good habits can have a big impact on our healthcare system in the future.
+ As patients become better armed with information through technology, we will see the patient/doctor relationship evolve into something more meaningful and efficient.
+ If good health is a priority in the workspace, these habits will translate into the home.
This has been a great first experience with TED Conversations for me and I hope to meet you all in the digital healthcare space again soon.
James Hensle
The reality is people, for the most part, won't do things that aren't somewhat convienient.
It boils down to is people don't want to know. It's not worth the aggravation of finding out. Even if everything goes wonderfully in a Dr. visit health-wise the experience sucks. Its dehumanizing and usually makes you feel guilty for something you aren't doing that you should for your health.
If there are problems discovered in a visit people can't perceive how they can change their lifestyle to what they THINK they might have to without losing the things they like in their current lifestyle.
Basically your job is to market an experience that is unpleasant (at best) well enough that people will go through it often enough to get the bad news sooner.
My primary suggestion is to make your organization show their clients/patients respect. Make appointments mean something. Charge a fee for no show (not covered by insurance of course) if necessary but respect your patient's time and them. Make the action of visiting as painless as possible so that people will be willing to at least take that first step. Give them reasonable access to their Dr.
At the other end of the contact give them access to support in making changes that they can't see how to make. Changing your lifestyle is HUGE and looks expensive to the patient. The online social networks are probably one of the best tools for that but don't just hand them a network name or website and let it go. Make it a part of the Dr.'s clinic or practice to be involved at this end as well.
conor mckechnie
Case in point (and bearing in mind I live in a country with a single-payor socialized health system (and very good it is too):
Last week, my father had a successful heart bypass operation after a series of heart attacks (he thought indigestion) caused by severe coronary artery disease. He never smoked. He is far fitter than the average 68 year-old, cycling upwards of 100 miles/week. He eats a largely fish/vegetarian diet out of preference, has been very active all his life, and drinks in moderation, and he has been very proactive over the last 15 years in managing his health. Yet genetics through him a curve ball and the UK's NHS has just spent ca. USD 20,000 re-doing the plumbing around his heart.
Outside the hospital when I visited, stood an army of smokers, many of them far from their ideal BMI, many of them on drips, some in wheelchairs...and I thought "Really? Should the NHS be paying for this? Their irresponsibility is causing an unnecessary drain on health resources, " I ranted at my brother (I was emotional - seeing your dad intubated in the ICU is never nice). At which point he (who is actually rather clever, and also works in health), pointed out: "Where do you draw the line? Do you refuse to treat drivers who crash their cars driving over the speed limit?" causing a crash of moral reasoning. I don't know.
So how does the payor (state or insurance company) encourage better health behaviours? I don't think there is one answer - I think there are many, and they are likely different for everyone - what would make you look after your health the way you should?
Michael Barber
You know as a GE employee that through our internal health initiative – HealthAhead – we’ve focused on helping employees improve the way they eat, work and live through both carrot and stick approaches. For example, by the end of 2010, 120 out of 295 GE-owned-and-operated campuses were tobacco-free. What I’ve taken away from our HealthAhead initiative is that employers can help set the tone for their employees. If good health is a priority in the workspace, these habits will translate into the home. We hope this will have a lasting impact on the individual employees and their families.
Matt Lane
Abstraction. As Terence McKenna once said, "Abstraction is the knife poised at our hearts."
2. "And, how can we design systems and tools that reverse this behavior?"
Meet peoples needs and develop their potentials.
Dr. Nancy Snyderman
Cancer of the colon runs in my family so I started colonoscopies at the age of 40. But breast cancer I have no risks for and probably could have put off screening until I was 50.
What are your beliefs about screening? What do you do and where do you turn for advice?
Michael Barber
Gaming is re-shaping the healthcare space as we know it – from academia to the way we consume personal health data. We are beginning to see a trend in marrying data with everyday products, allowing us to gather information seamlessly, without disrupting our lifestyle. With these advances in technology, we can actually make patients smarter. This is where it gets exciting. As patients become better armed with information through technology, we will see the patient/doctor relationship evolve into something more meaningful and efficient. Our goal for today’s summit is to explore this new space, to discover new ways to effect change through personal technology and to play our part within this healthcare revolution.
Debra Smith 100+
Supercooperators : altruism, evolution, and why we need each other to succeed
Martin A. Nowak, with Roger Highfield.
Nowak is a mathematician working in the field of evolutionary biology and he studies game theory especially Prisoner's Dilema. He demondrates many applications.
Michael Barber
Joe Delsen 20+
http://www.frenchtribune.com/teneur/116302-medical-errors-and-health-care-related-infections-causing-majority-deaths-who
Dr. Nancy Snyderman
Debra Smith 100+
Matt Hintzke
Chaya Nair
Secondly ,many are of the impression that medical practitioners ask for too many unwanted investigations.To add to all these is the inconvenience of going to the hospitals, waiting for the doctors, visiting various departments for investigations and the most important expenditure they are likely to incur deter people from going to hospitals.
Dr. Nancy Snyderman
Most of us prepare more time thinking about what we want to get at the grocery store or market than we do before seeing the doctor. But whether sick or healthy, preparing for that visit can save time and allow us to get more out of the visit. Sharing information can be frightening. But I think it is just as scary when doctors don't take the time to ask the basics....how are you? how is work? How is your marriage and the children? Are you under stress or sad? The social aspects of our lives can influence disease and illness.
The bottom line for all of us, anywhere in the world, is to do the things in life that can keep us healthy, share the burden of staying healthy with our health care provider, and use the hospital as a last resort. Being smart and honest go a long way no matter which country we live in.
Kriss Clement
Chaya Nair
You touched upon the most important aspect of doctor-patient relationship i.e.taking time to ask basics.,2 decades ago when there were not many specialities and specialists,a family doctor used to play a significant role in people's lives.He or she was the doctor,counsellor,friend,philosopher and guide.People had immense faith in their family doctors.Now with the advent of multi speciality hospitals ,medical technological advances and commercialisation and insurance,people think twice before going to hospitals.Many feel that they are not people friendly.Here in Bangalore we have a NGO known as"Helping Hand" whose volunteers visit the hospitals and help the patients and their families.Probably,we need more volunteers to do this kind of work.I strongly feel that medical students should be trined in communication and counselling skills.
Benjamin Torrence
I also think (for people without health concerns) that it isn't really an issue to them, so they don't bother.
Debra Smith 100+
One, we need to simply have good scheduling and reminders. People are busy and people forget things that can be put off. If I worked for GE I would work to computerize doctors' offices and in exchange for good free software the doctors' patients would be put on an automatic alert and scheduling system that would go to their computer inboxes for yearly testing. It would be a positive step to confirm or reject the testing date and most people would accept and attend.
Less routine testing, like MRIs would be on an alert system too as soon as the doctor ordered the test, the patient would be coordinated with the provider with a date and time.
We would also need to reduce fear. Understanding just how fearful some of these issues can be especially when faced with a cold and impersonal system, is key. Why not supply information directly to the patient by the same computer programme to help them understand EXACTLY what is involved in the test. How often the test gives people a new lease on life by proving that they are fine and how the system will enable them to get the best help if there is something to work on.
In the face of the medical system most people feel powerless. Empowering through information is one great step forward.
Judge Pau 50+
The real question is how is government and medical community do not see that health is one need no human can bargain with ?
Putting price on medical products are putting price on human lives.
I'm sorry...
I know this doesn't help.
Comment deleted
Michael Barber
On the topic of the doctor/patient relationship, we recently sponsored a related study, which launched at the Vancouver Olympics. Some of the results were thought-provoking. For example, 77% of healthcare professionals said that one fourth or more of their patients have lied to them about their health. More people knew how many vacation days they had left (47%) than how many calories they’d consumed yesterday (43%). At the link here, you can click through a data visualization that outlines all of the findings: http://www.healthymagination.com/projects/better-health-study/. We collaborated with WebMD on this topic to develop an interactive tool that guides the patient though what questions/dialogue they should be having with their physician.
Joe Delsen 20+
Some people are more aware of their vacation or sick leave days is probably a sign of work stress that sometimes encroaches on the daily pressures of family life. Are there studies too about shorter or more fleixble work days resulting in better productivity and health?
My general suggestion also is to raise awareness at all levels and at any stage of our lives the power of our minds to understand the dynamics of our healthy and self-healing bodies, and the caring of our hearts to be more responsible and contributing also to the healthy welfare of the people close to us.
Michael Barber
Bruce Ramshaw
Michael Barber
Bruce Ramshaw
Kriss Clement
Ed Schulte 30+
just a simple suggest here
hook up with SHELL Netherlands here at TED and their "Healthy City" initiative.
I point to the correlation between between using less energy ...in this case in "cook" -ing food .....energy in ....and the destruction of "foods" energy destroyed.
IOW Prompt consumption of more raw food = greater nutrition with less energy spent / and greater (potential) heath at less cost to environment. After all is NOT coincidental that the efficiency of energy usage and intelligent diet go hand in hand ....generating greater "Heath" inside and out.
Nicola Prigg
We do our taxes because we know the taxman will come looking if we don't and the repurcussions are worse than just doing your taxes.
Whereas with your health, if you're getting screened for something, you think i'll probably not have it. With the Doctors you weigh up the probability of having some condition over the likelihood that you don't. Even if the likelihood is high that you will develop something due to being overweight, we still to continue to put off losing weight to reduce the risk mainly i think because you like eating and your exercise rate at the moment. There is a small chance that no health problems will be created and if they do, you'll deal with them then. There's the it won't be me chance as well as losing weight is too much like hard work.
I've had personal experience of knowing there was something but not going to the Doctors well its slightly more complicated. I injured my knee a year ago in the semi's of my club championships(doubles), played on and we won. i couldn't walk the morning after so went to A&E, diagnosed it as ligament and would heal fairly quickly so I decided to play in the final 3 days later, knowing if it was ligament, it wouldn't make it worse. A year later still having problems with it, private clinic said maybe cartilage, NHS keep saying ligament. At easter when it was particularly troubling, i resisted going to the GP again because I knew what was going to be said - "its ligament, go away".
What would have helped me - better diagnostics through better technology but at the end of the day - I'm not sure anything would have stopped me from playing that final. I wanted to play. Rational thoughts about health didn't come into it.
Dr. Nancy Snyderman
Kodiak Krapf
Kodiak Krapf
it's a sad thought to think that people are more scared of the IRS than they are of dying. if the persons condition isn't physyicaly or mentally effecting them they are more prone to hold it off untill they are sick, weather or not they could have prevented it from occuring in the first place. out of sight out of mind.
On a near by reservation there are a large number of deaths caused by strokes and heartattacks and beacause of that they put up billboard signs listing the causes, symptons, and preventatives of strokes and heartattacks. that apparently has not only made people more aware of whats going on but also help drive the number of deaths down considerably.
To help make people aware and get screenings done I think that it more depends on the demographic your in, billboards may work for us in between our rural communities but TV commercials may be better in other places.