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(1) What happens after death? Is there an after-life? (2) Are you afraid to die? Why? (3) And what do you think about 'voluntary death'?

Why the most people view the voluntary death as a sin or something terrible, when it could be handle just like an inherent right of every living being to decide about their own lives, rather than waiting for natural "disasters" like the aging process or any fatal illness?

Is it because the most people have religion beliefs related?

*sorry cause my English*

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    Jul 1 2011: 1. I haven't died myself and I don't know too many zombies, so I really can't tell you if there is an afterlife. And trust me if I were a zombie you'd know.

    2. Yeah I am kinda afraid to die. It doesn't look like much of a roller coaster ride, just lying there and waiting for maggots. I mean if I were reincarnated as an ignorant maggot I would probably love eating my decomposing body so in that event it would be alright. If I was reincarnated as a maggot who is aware of my previous life and then I found out I was eating myself that would be disturbing and traumatic.

    3. Sure, but it's kind of useless unless you are suffering from intolerable misery.You don't know what there is after death and you don't know what there is ahead for you in life. You are gonna die anyway, kind of useless to end it prematurely.
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    Jun 30 2011: 1)
    a: The world keeps spinning, your body decomposes over time and the composing atoms will disperse and form new connections...
    b: no, there is no evidence whatsoever indicating there is.
    2) Sometimes. as I don't want to die (yet). If I could extend my life significantly, I probably would. (Preferably by keeping my current habits)
    3) If you decide to end your life, do first consider the responsibilities you still might have... Try and not to have too much negative effects when doing so.
    I do think that wanting to end life indicates your will to live has dropped to zero. If this extends for a longer period of time... I would not consider life ending is a bad option.
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    Jun 30 2011: maybe our soul is the energy transfered from the body after death to some collective source. or not, but i can say i do not fear death. but i do fear not living.
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    Jun 30 2011: But to actually answer your question directly...

    1: There is no one thing that happens after "death." Everyone has different stuff to do depending on the choices they've made in any given form of existence (I'm talking dimensions here, consciousness knows no bounds). When they transition ("die") they go on about whatever business is necessary to improve their next incarnation, wherever it might be.

    Not only is there an after-life, THERE IS ONLY LIFE! This is an INFINITE omni-universe!!! It is a cyclical existence without end. Nothing dies, everything transitions.

    2: No. I know I've done it many times before. Aside from that, nobody who has had a near-death-experience (that I know of) has come back saying that the actual "death" was painful. It's just the leaving the body ("dying") that can be tricky.

    Aside from that, when it's my time to go, it's my time to go. Why fear that? I knew what I signed up for when I came to this planet. As an incarnate being, I know there is no escape from "transition." Why should I fear the inevitable? It's a waste of the time I have on this planet within this incarnation.

    3: Voluntary death is practical if the body can no longer function in a way that any given individual (who chooses euthanization) desires for it to work in order for them to live a fulfilling life.

    The problem is that people tend to give up on the concept of a fulfilling life. Clearly there are many people suffering on this planet. As a species I do not think we have done a very good job of raising one another up. Thus, society as we know it on this planet is rather ill-formed.

    Lastly, there's really no "death." So if you can get the work done in this lifetime, in this incarnation, with this "time"...why waste it? Chances are you'll just end up in another body at some point along infinity and you may have to repeat the same lessons AGAIN in worse circumstances.

    Personally, I like to deal with my issues as they come up, the first time around!
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    Jun 30 2011: @ Alice: I would not call the aging process a "disaster." It's a mandatory side effect of having our consciousness' live inside our 3D meat bodies. It's really a brilliant experience to grow older. Further, our species is not capable of creating or destroying energy; so I think it's dangerous to speak of "death" as if we actually know what it means "to end." How does one come to an end in an infinite omni-universe? It's just not possible.
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      Jun 30 2011: I would not call the aging process a "disaster" either Sanyu. As a matter of fact...I'm quite enjoying it...as you say..."a brilliant experience to grow older". I also believe in energy recycling...good comments:>)
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        Jun 30 2011: Thanks Colleen!

        I'm happy to know I'm not the only person in the, "WOOOOOOOOOW, THE UNIVERSE IS SO AWESOME and Earth is pretty great too" category!

        I know our species currently leaves a lot to be desired in the wisdom, oneness and life is beautiful categories...

        But we'll get there with infinity on our side!
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          Jun 30 2011: You are not the only one Sanyu, and it is a matter of remembering:>)
    • Jul 1 2011: @Sanyu & @Colleen

      Did you notice that I put the word "disasters" into quotes? (:

      The aging process is a natural event, of course - but what do you conceive as being natural?

      My point is that we, humans, are also part of nature and, therefore, naturals.

      So if
      a) The human being is natural
      b) The human being has a natural brain capable of reasoning and "make choices"
      c) Therefore, if an human being chooses to die - theoretically - it would be a natural choice and suicide, at least, an natural event - as the aging process.

      Finally, that "choice" is nothing but the natural result of a combination of factors from the interaction between the individual one and the social environment where he's inside.

      _

      About recycling energy, of course we don't create or destroy energy - so as @Christophe pointed: "your body decomposes over time and the composing atoms will disperse and form new connections" - a natural clever way to recycle energy, by the way.

      Keep yourselves alive! ;)
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        Jul 1 2011: Hi Alice,
        Yes I noticed "disasters" in quotes...followed by "aging process or any fatal illness". Sounds like disasters, aging and fatal illness are all natural in your perception? You believe that choosing to end one's life is as natural as aging or fatal illness? You make an interesting point, which I'm pondering:>)
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        Jul 1 2011: Hey Alice!

        I did notice, but as I've never heard aging being referred to as a "natural disaster" before, I couldn't help but address it from my own perspective.

        As to suicide being "natural," I don't know about that. I'd say it's common place, but not natural. Choice is natural, the choice to commit suicide is unfortunate.

        I also do not consider my body to just be atoms. I believe my consciousness is an ecstatic energy while my bodily materials are more like static energy. Therefore my body will decompose and feed the world (through ashes that are later planted with plants ideally) and my consciousness will release from my body and go on about its business.

        There's no keeping myself alive in an existence that is only living.

        Thanks for the great post!
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        Jul 2 2011: Simple and elegant logic. Thanks.
  • Jun 30 2011: 1) We can assume an infinite number of possibilities of what comes after death because none of us have experienced it (it's already been proven that the images that occur in near-death-experiences are just extreme hallucinations/dreams). Maybe nothing happens, maybe Yahweh is real, maybe Allah is real, reincarnation, maybe God created a dangerous world and religion as a test to separate the emotionally and intellectually brave from people that can't bear the thought of death. Due to the lack of evidence there is no good reason to believe any of these, so we can safely assume nothing happens.

    2) I am as afraid of death as I am of sleep. I do however feel like I have so much to accomplish in this world so I'm inclined to stay alive, although I strongly support the idea of "death before dishonor". Some of us "die" many times before actually dying. By being too afraid to follow your dreams and speak your mind, you are slowly killing yourself on the inside. Being alive doesn't mean anything if you don't honor and respect yourself and others. Just remember that no one LITERALLY lives forever, and very few are FIGURATIVELY alive.

    3) Suicide takes a lot of courage to do and is a way of liberating oneself. Unfortunately it is also extremely selfish in most cases. If most of your problems are internal, it certainly takes a lot more strength to come to terms with your emotions than it does to kill yourself, but it is the only way you can grow as a human being and achieve Self-Actualization. This is coming from a suicide survivor.
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      Jun 30 2011: Dear Daniel,
      You say "it's already been proven that the images that occur in near-death-experiences are just extreme hallucinations/dreams". Who has proven that? If you google near death experience research for starters, you may find different information:>) I'm not a religious person and I did have a near death/out of body experience. You can "assume nothing happens" if you wish, and your assumption is not based on "lack of evidence", but rather, a closed mind.

      I agree with you that being too aftraid to follow your dreams and speak your mind can feel like a slow death at times. I am alive on this earth school, just as I was very much alive in another form:>)
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        Jul 2 2011: Kindly do not assume only a set of believers have an open mind and the others do not have. These are opinions. You like or you do not. You agree or you do not. We are all like 7 blind men trying describe an elephant with hilarious results. As Havel has said, befriend those who are seeking truth, not the ones who have found it. (No one has found it and very likely no one will. Some what like Godel's theorem.)
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      Jun 30 2011: Daniel,

      I have to say I find the argument of NDE's being "hallucinations/dreams" pretty insulting. I'm saying this about the argument, not about your using it.

      How are a bunch of scientists - who, by the way, have never died in this lifetime - going to tell people WHO HAVE ACTUALLY DIED what they experienced? It's incredibly patronizing and hegemonic to make assumptions based on the living world about the dead world. I think scientists should eat some humble pie and actually listen to what people who have died say they have experienced.

      So are scientists positing that everyone who has died (and come back to life), and I'm talking flat lined, has the same hallucination? Funny that such a broad statement about unity is so applicable for the "death" conversation but if we try to apply it to the actual "living-and-socializing" conversation it is somehow "preposterous."

      I know 3 people who have died (and come back) and I respect what they have to say about it because...I haven't actually died yet. I believe in energy recycling (some call it reincarnation on this planet). I believe in it because energy cannot be created or destroyed by our species. So for our species to act like we know "exactly" what the process of "life" and "death" is, strikes me as pretty laughable really.

      What? Because it's extraordinary it's just not possible, conceivable or likely? An infinite omni-universe is also seemingly not very "possible, conceivable or likely" ....and yet, here we are.

      The arrogance of our species to assume that we are the only a) conscious, b) intelligent and c) worth while opinion holders in ALL OF EXISTENCE is very troubling. It's this egoistic stand point that has put us in clear opposition to our own sustainable progress on this planet.
      • Jun 30 2011: @ Colleen Steen & Sanya Nagenda

        My apologies for the confusion I should have elaborated a bit more.

        Biologically a NDE SHOULD be an intense hallucination, but since we can't measure what isn't a part of the physical world we don't have absolute certainty on whether or not a NDE truly is a spiritual experience that transcends what a living scientists could possibly comprehend.

        And no not everyone has the same hallucinations. Survivors have reported visions of heaven, hell, euphoria, "the light", floating sensations etc. Of course, NDE and actually being dead are not the same thing, and no one is in a position to declare what happens to those that are permanently dead.

        I honestly don't know what happens after death and so far I'm not convinced anyone else truly does either. My choice to assume that nothing happens by default is an arbitrary decision because I have no way of attaining absolute certainty about the afterlife, so why should I let it concern me? Right now I'm just concerned about making the most of my current life. There's no need to over-analyze an event that will happen in the future at an unexpected time.

        Whether or not you believe in energy recycling, that shouldn't influence your ability to live this life. We all owe it to ourselves to grow, learn, respect and improve the world we live in.

        "What? Because it's extraordinary it's just not possible, conceivable or likely? An infinite omni-universe is also seemingly not very "possible, conceivable or likely" ....and yet, here we are."
        My point is that we don't have good reason to strongly believe in ANY ONE possibility of the afterlife. If you feel it helps you live this life better then more power to you. Who knows, maybe the bible isn't a collection of Roman Policies and Yahweh is real, but I'm not going to dictate my life in accordance to the bible merely because there is a 1/∞ chance it is the truth, and being a former Christian I can honestly say I personally didn't benefit much from it.
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          Jun 30 2011: Thanks for your reply, Daniel!

          I certainly can't disagree about living this life to the fullest regardless of what happens on the next journey!
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          Jun 30 2011: No apology needed Daniel...I'm not confused:>) There are many "living scientists" who comprehend the NDE, which is why I directed you to NDE research:>) I percieve my NDE to be a scientific event...and maybe spiritual too:>)

          My belief in energy recycling influences my life in making it more rich, full and abundant. You are right that we owe it to ourselves to grow, learn, respect and improve ourselves and the world we live in. I do have good reason to believe in the possibilities, because I have experienced some of them. I also respect your choices. I am a "former christian" as well, and believe it was beneficial based on the information I took from that experience.
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      Jun 30 2011: chemically, your brain does not know the diffrence beetween your waking life and dreaming life. so your brains perception is the same.
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        Jun 30 2011: Chemically, my brain does what my consciousness tells it to do. Not the other way around.

        And I think lucid dreamers would beg to differ about whether they know the difference between their waking and dreaming life...
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          Jun 30 2011: i probably made that way too general, images you "see" while dreaming and see while not dreaming are processed the same.
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          Jul 1 2011: Sanyu:
          Can you please tell me how your consciousness idea works?
          Thus far, I never met such claims from a neuroscientific point of view, but I am open for evidence pointing towards your statement.

          Tim
          As I have trained myself in lucid dreaming (and had some succes before stopping the experiments), I do know the difference between waking and dreaming life.
          Just pinch yourself or try to bleed in lucid state, or try the light-switch...
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        Jun 30 2011: Perhaps you mean that in using the eyes to see the brain triggers the same neuropathways and functions?

        In terms of how one processes what they see (whether dreaming or waking), that is a function of the consciousness. And I would argue that no two experiences are the same and therefore no two experiences can be perceived in exactly the same way (whatever the sense you're using: sight, taste, touch, etc.).
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          Jun 30 2011: ya basically, when you see something awake and then asleep, you initially dont percieve it to be a dream image.
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        Jul 1 2011: Hey Christophe!

        I can definitely tell you what I mean, but I should state that I am not a scientist.

        Mostly my theories about consciousness stem from the fact that it is my understanding that the Omni-Universe is made possible by Conscious Infinity. (To begin with anyway). Basically, I largely came into the world with this confidence so I confess it can be frustrating to others when I try to explain myself.

        It's said that we live in a constantly expanding infinite universe (obviously this is also contested). Infinity, being infinite, would logically (at least in my understanding) come to a point where it became conscious of itself. I think it would be very difficult to create a conscious species without knowledge and experience within consciousness.

        It's also said that our species is conscious, which is what sets us apart from the other species of Earth. I disagree with this, in that I know everything to be conscious and with its individual purpose and knowledge in existence. But I do agree that our species perceives our consciousness differently because we also have these brains.

        The thing is, our species is made out of meat...pretty much our whole vehicle is perishable meat. Considering this, I have to ask myself what is walking around my meat and keeping it from rotting? For me, I understand the "operator" of my meat vehicle to be my consciousness. If I were in a coma, I would need technological assistance to exist because my consciousness would not be in my body. When I die, my meat will not continue to operate because my consciousness will have exited "the building."

        So on a chemical level, there is nothing my body does that my consciousness does not approve of. Whether that is prior to or during my incarnation. I should also explain that I believe I incarnated on Earth intentionally and that I don't feel my consciousness is indigenous to the Earth at this time in infinity. So really it's hard to explain without discussing dimensions, infinity, etc.
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          Jul 2 2011: Thanks for the explanation.

          I almost completely disagree with your point of view, as I don't think immaterial things (like what you describe as a Conscious Infinity). [edit] Exist.
          I don't assume you want to be convinced of my perspective, so no need to discuss.

          (note: that our known universe is expanding is not contested, it has been observed many a time, and its expansion is even accelerating)
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        Jul 2 2011: (They've really got to make the reply system better...)

        Christophe,

        You needn't agree with me. I know where I'm from. If you know where you are from, then we are both a success.

        Please finish the sentence, "...as I don't think immaterial things (like what you describe as a Conscious Infinity)." I cannot understand what you mean without you completing that thought.

        And an expanding Omni-Universe is definitely contested by plenty of people, not all of who are religious. I believe in infinity, so I believe in the Omni-Universe constantly expanding. But I've heard scientists say otherwise. You all are definitely not in agreement. (You can look up the show "Through the Wormhole" if you'd like to see scientists argue against constant expansion yourself).

        As to not believing in immaterial things...if that's what you meant by that sentence...I think Infinity is much more immaterial than it is material.
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          Jul 3 2011: I edited the post.

          Immaterial things don't exist. If something exists, it must be material.

          Through the wormhole is a good series, and shows clearly some different hypothesis about our universe.
          Note that disagreement is part of the scientific process. Experiments can be designed to see which one holds the wrong opinion.
          And one does not need to agree in order to be right.
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        Jul 3 2011: "Immaterial things don't exist. If something exists, it must be material."

        Christophe, do you really feel comfortable (or justified) making such a concrete statement?



        If so then we indeed must agree to disagree.
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          Jul 3 2011: Yes, I feel very comfortable with that statement.
          (I consider it highly surprising if it would be false)

          And I agree to disagree
        • Jul 28 2011: Christophe,

          Explain what you mean by immaterial if you would. I am thinking that what you mean is metaphysical. In which case I would agree with you, but objects such as love or emotion would be considered immaterial and they are clearly real things felt by all of humanity.

          You could say that emotion is material because it forces or perpetuates action but the emotion itself, at it's most basic level is completely immaterial and therefore, unless I am incorrect, is still a real existent object of life.
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        Jul 28 2011: Corey (or Christophe),

        I am curious to know how you define "metaphysical." Please elaborate.

        Thanks!
        Sanyu
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    Jun 30 2011: 1) Who really knows?
    2) No but I am scared of the pain leading up to it.
    3) I had an aunt who recently passed away at a time of her choosing. She had been ill for many years with another condition and developed lung cancer which metasticized and she decided to stop her dialysis. She got a chance to say good bye to everyone, share all of her feelings and slip into death with her children and friends around her. Even her ex husband was at her side. I cannot think of a better way to go. I feel she left me a legacy in her dying and in her final requests of me.
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    Jul 17 2011: Alice, my reply on the discussion about consciousness seems relevant here:

    Here is the excerpt from Dr. Pim van Lommel's research - ABOUT THE CONTINUITY OF OUR CONSCIOUSNESS

    1. Introduction 2. About Death 3. Scientific Research on Near Death Experience

    4. Some typical elements of NDE (4.5.) The Disappearance of Fear of Death. Nearly all people who have experienced an NDE lose their fear of death. This is due to the realization that there is a continuation of consciousness, even when you have been declared dead by bystanders or even by doctors. You are separated from the lifeless body, retaining the ability of perception...

    5. Neurophysiology In Cardiac Arrest 6. Neurophysiology In A Normal Functioning Brain

    7. Quantum Mechanics and the Brain. ... In people with an NDE the functional receiving capacity seems to be permanently enhanced. When you compare this with a TV set, you receive not only Channel 1, the transmission of your personal consciousness, but simultaneously Channels 2, 3 and 4 with aspects of consciousness of others.

    8. Role of DNA 9. Analogy of worldwide communication.
    10. Conclusion. ... There are still more questions than answers, but, based on the aforementioned theoretical aspects of the obviously experienced continuity of our consciousness, we finally should consider the possibility that death, like birth, may well be a mere passing from one state of consciousness to another...

    http://www.ted.com/conversations/4082/where_do_you_think_consciousne.html?c=282688
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    Jul 2 2011: We have no opinion in respect of our birth (and in most other matters even after that). Why can we not have it at least in respect of our death. Most of the humanity leads a wretched existence. Amongst the exempted ones, there are who suffer vicariously or through empathy for the victims of holocaust or tsunami or all pervading evil in general. When Japanese tsunami horror was seen on the net, lots of people opined that God will give them strength to overcome the grief. If He was to do that, why did He inflict the pain in the first place? If it is part of His some master plan, what gave him that right? If the right comes from His being Almighty, how is he different from tyrant? People hang on partly out of lust for life and partly out of commitments created by them in a repeat of their parents folly. Only people like Mother Teresa hang on to help the wretched ones bear their injustice whether inflicted by random chance or by destiny or by divinity in His own wisdom.Diogenes is supposed to have committed suicide by refusing to breath. In India, Jain monks end their life by fasting to death. Not all of us have that kind of will power. Why can't we be assisted by euthanasia? What is beyond will be there irrespective of how we go and why we go? Why not go and have the suspense over? May be there is nothing beyond. Or may be, they will wipe your memory chip clean and send you back to go through the same grill again. Why not take a chance?
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    Jul 2 2011: i don't think I would mind death as much if it were not so much of a commitment.
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    Jul 1 2011: 1. I haven't died myself and I don't know too many zombies, so I really can't tell you if there is an afterlife. And trust me if I were a zombie you'd know.

    2. Yeah I am kinda afraid to die. It doesn't look like much of a roller coaster ride, just lying there and waiting for maggots. I mean if I were reincarnated as an ignorant maggot I would probably love eating my decomposing body so in that event it would be alright. If I was reincarnated as a maggot who is aware of my previous life and then I found out I was eating myself that would be disturbing and traumatic.

    3. Sure, but it's kind of useless unless you are suffering from intolerable misery.You don't know what there is after death and you don't know what there is ahead for you in life. You are gonna die anyway, kind of useless to end it prematurely.
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    Jul 1 2011: 1. I dunno, but knowing wouldn't change anything for me.
    2. I'm terrified, and I blame biology for that.
    3. It is considered animal abuse if you don't put down a dying dog that is clearly in a lot of pain. I think there should at least be a choice for humans in this condition.
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      Jul 1 2011: Hi Colin,
      I volunteered in a terminal care facility for a couple years, and if it's any consolation to you, the only person I witnessed in pain in that time, was a woman who refused to take the full dosage of meds because she didn't want to mask the dying process. Pain is pretty manageable these days.
      I agree with you though...it is appropriate to have a choice.
  • Jul 1 2011: 1. Good question, I wish I had the answer.
    2. Yes. I believe everyone is afraid of the actual event, deep down, though some are better at denying it than others.
    3. There are times where I can sympathize with voluntarily ending one's life. I'm not sure I'd ever do it, but I can sure understand why certain people would want to... terminal illness can suck.
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    Jul 1 2011: It is an interesting thread. Maybe this link might throw some light on this subject. http://www.nariphaltan.org/death.pdf
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    Jun 30 2011: 1) After death you disappear/rot, you just remain forever in the past
    2) Yes, I love life, I love myself, I don’t want to go away
    3) It’s your choice, hopefully you don’t have to make that choice
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    Jun 30 2011: (1)Because nobody can observe circumstances, under which he is not able to observe, it is impossible, that the end of your existence becomes part of your reality. So, If there is no after-life, death does not matter.

    (2) No, I do not think, that I will die, at least from my perspective. But I am very afrait to loose loved ones.

    (3) I belive, that we owe to society, to give oure best in life and the group of people we live in, has to keep harm from us. This can mean to kill us quickly, rather than allow nature to torture us to death.
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    Jun 30 2011: 1) Don't know. Again don't know.
    2) Not sure, even when afraid it's the fear of unknown and also unfulfilled commitment which were supposed to be delivered while alive.
    3) That's suicide even if it is due to chronic unbearable painful condition. Ethical concern not clear.