Travis Tokarek

This conversation is closed.

Should Chance be considered a physical force that we are bound by (like gravity, elctromagnetism, the strong force and the weak force)?

How do we define a law? How do we define a force? A law is a generalization based on consistent experience or results. A force is a strength or power exerted upon an object. We have a vague idea of how the forces that govern our physical world work, and we have attempted to quanitfy them using equations. These forces include gravity, electromagnetism, the strong force and the weak force. My question is, what do we consider the concept of chance? It is quantifiable, and yet we don't have a description for what "it" is. Chance governs everything, from the amount of genes you will inherit from your mother and father, to the fall of the dice in a game of craps. The first thing many of you will think is that chance is governed by the other four forces, but the real question is, are the other forces what make up Chance. Maybe Chance is the one force that rules everything. If we were able to break down a dice into it's individual atoms, and quantify how it will behave due to the four forces acting on it as a whole, would we be able to determine the number that would appear after it has been rolled? Could we ever really be 100% sure? I believe the variables go deeper than is possible to ever understand. I believe quantifying our forces is the human result of objectifying everything we encouter (as a result of our senses). I just want to know where others stand on the forces that govern us, and our ability to understand them, am I alone in thinking we are the icarus' of the 21 century? Are we flying to close to the sun in an attempt to understand everything that comes our way? Could it be as simple as a single force dictating either yes or no?

  • Jun 28 2011: Choice controlls chance more than chance controls choice e.g. never travel, but, if you must, always fasten your seatbelt. While it is convenient to view "chance" as a force of nature, if you believe in a higher power, it might just be a tool to achieve higher levels of order. That higher power would simply "randomize" chance to ensure that everything that can be brought into existence is brought into existence whereby the desirable outcomes are retained and the undesirable outcomes rejected. This winnowing process will take an eternity.

    Take the existence of life. It is anti-entropic. In physics everything is supposed to be driven by entropy yet here we have life on this earth and elsewhere steadily gaining order. According to physicists entropy had to rule the universe until second generation stars like ours could support life. At some point in the past we reached the most important point in the history of the universe---a countervailing force to entropy---life. What is the thermodynamic reason for life? Chance or choice?

    One of the most important discoveries that will be proven beyond a reasonable doubt is the existence of structure in the universe that pre-existed the Big Bang. As such the Big Bang theory will be abandoned in the next few decades.

    One of things that believers in the multiverse should study is chess. We have "hash" tables in computer chess programs to deal with transpositions i.e. the same position on the chess board can be reached by many paths. You don't want to study the same position and waste time so hash tables are created to get rid of transpositions. Think of how this applies to the multiverse! If an infininite number of universes can arise then the ovewhelming majority of universes take a different path but wind up in the same place. How many univerese followed different paths to get to this one? Was it chance or design?