Tiago Reiser

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Rationality and faith complement each other?

I believe so. My faith is based in a logical and rational system.A chain of evidence that leads me to the conclusion that there is a God, a creator.Faith is a more broad explanation to a subject, but it is only valid if this faith produce something in the rational and logical level of the human existence. in other words i use my rationality to have faith because i have reason to believe in God.

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    Jun 22 2011: You know, for me it is not ease to come here and talk about God i know this is not a friendly environment to this kind of talk .
    About my evidence if it can be verify? Of course it can. Go talk to those who had their life changed, listen what they have to say.
    if there is a small chance that God exist isn't important to know it?
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    Jun 22 2011: "My faith is based in a logical and rational system."

    Nope, it is not. And thereby your claim is entirely refuted. For what can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. Next question please? ;)

    Seriously, for a debate to take place there must exist some sort of intellectual challenge. Being able to completely rebut the original posting by simply saying "No" is a joke.
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    Jun 21 2011: We have two conversations going on this already
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      Jun 22 2011: Look my friend i think you misunderstood me.I never said that faith is 100% rational , but that faith must have and effect in the rational level of human existence.
      By the way i agreed with you that we must consider alternate explanation to every problem in fact if you read my last post you will see that i did precisely that.
      Regarding the last paragraph i need to say a few thing
      1º i don't follow your logic, you disapprove the existence of God because we cant explain his prior existence yet you probably believe in the big bang theory that by itself cannot explain why the big bang occurred or what created all that mass and energy
      2º regarding the God's motivation for creating the universe it is well explained in the bible
      The bible has the answer for every fundamental questions of the human being:
      what we are? where we came from? why we need to die? why we suffer? where we going?
      Science is able to compress almost all the knowledge of the world in the size of a cell phone and make it portable, but we still facing the same problems we always did.
      we are still dying, we are still killing, we are still suffering.
      One of the greatest evidence of dark matter is how it affects the light and one of the greatest evidence of God is how he affects us.
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        Jun 22 2011: I'd like to respond to your points.

        1 - We atheists accept that we don't know what happened before the big bang, or whether the word 'before' even has any meaning in this context. We are happy to let that be unknown, we dont need to fill it with anything untill we have some evidence that sheds light on it. We currently dont have any evidence on it so we simply accept that we dont know.
        Theists on the other hand need to fill that unknown hole with god and believe that this solves the problem and explains everything. It doesn't. As Jim said, god himself requires the same level of explaination as the big bang. So while we cannot disprove that god exists in this unknown box he is also unnessessary to account for what we observe.

        2 - I have to disagree that the bible (or any religious text) has the answer for every one of our fundamental questions. Leaving aside all of our scientific questions :). The bible offers nothing more than backwards stone age morality and superstision with an occasional highlight of somethnig approaching modern ethical values.
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    Jun 21 2011: Faith is belief, often certainty, in something regardless of its rational merit.
    If you have a rational reason for belief in something then you don't belive it because of faith.

    I would be interested to hear, and discuss, the evidence leads you to believe in a God.
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      Jun 21 2011: sorry my friend but i disagreed with you: even faith needs to have a minimum of rationality otherwise it a blind faith
      Of course i would be very happy to discuss that with you, although i think i wont be able to fully describe what i felt in words i will try to do it the best i can. The history i will tell you are 100% true.
      First i must say that i am a rational man i didn't believe in anything beyond rationality but i have a person very close to me that make me question my life.
      He was a drug addict, a person that you can call a pariah to the society, and outcast .One day he felt in love for a girl, a girl that came from an rigid family. He knew that in order to approach her he needed to change so he tried everything but still couldn't leave the drugs .One day he came to me an said: God freed me from drugs.
      What i thought was; poor guy he made all the effort and give all the credit to God. For me at the time what happened was that he convinced himself that there is a God and this helped him to change.Anyway he never used drugs anymore and he marries the girl and have a beautiful family with her. He start to help others to leave drugs and i helped him, and i start to see a pattern repeating itself: people that tried everything in order to leave drugs only archived this goal when the concept of God is presented to them.
      i start to question what if there is a God? what if God is not only a concept created by human mind in order to facilitate the changes that need to be made.So i asked my friend what he did to find God, he told me that he started to read the bible, so did i. And what i found is amazing i saw the logic behind the bible. i start to connect what i saw happening in the life of those people to what the bible say about those who accept God as their savior.
      Today i believe in God and my belief don't require a giant leap of blind faith because i see it working in the real world.
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        Jun 22 2011: I'm very glad for you and your friend. Its always good to see someone turn their life around for the better.

        I'm going to have to disagree with you on your reasoning here though. While the belief in a God can compel people to do very great things and we may well be biologically inclined to these beliefs, that does not make them true. The truth or falsehood of a belief is independant of how useful it is to those who hold it.
        I could think up a set of beliefs now that would, if held by the majority of the world, be more useful than any religion but that would not make it true.