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Neil Satie

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Freedom more significant than happiness?

Am I the only one who'd always prioritise freedom above happiness? Aside from that I think it merely requires a different adaptation, that perhaps the teachers who themselves grew up in quite a different, more restrictive, environment fail to be able to teach?

Topics: freedom
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    Jun 17 2011: Firstly, I think it's strange to think of one as more or less SIGNIFICANT than the other. They exist on such different planes, like Sound and Sight for example? So it's not really a trade-off.
    However, I would always say that you can't be happy unless you are free, so Freedom is prioritised.
    Interestingly, I think Freedom is synonymous with Responsibility, so I would say what precedes Happiness is Responsibility. And it only when we are Responsible can we be free, and so happy.
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      Jun 17 2011: I certainly agree, freedom is a responsibility. It is a burden that we as people carry, our boulder up the hillside.
  • Jun 22 2011: Freedom is our engine. No matter what our aim is, no matter who we are. We try to go to that light. In my opinion, freedom brings happiness, but it isn't caused by happiness. If I could choose, firstly I will choose freedom because after getting freedom I will get happiness. So, all in all freedom is more significant than happiness. Freedom gives us the ground and happiness gives us atmosphere. We need that ground if we want to create something that will cause our happiness. Without freedom, our souls (and bodies as well) are isolated and we must get out from that cage. We need to destroy these gates and go to our aim. When we are free, we are happy, but our freedom can be reached not with a happy smile on our face.
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      Jun 26 2011: But what are you considering freedom to be and what are you not considering freedom to be ?

      Where is the line that separates freedom from slavery ?
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    Jun 17 2011: FREEDOM- it's a precursor!
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    Jun 17 2011: one vote for freedom.
  • Jun 17 2011: I believe freedom allows for the opportunity to be happy and thus it is more significant.
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    Jun 26 2011: This might be considered illogical but i think happiness is more significant than freedom.

    As long as you are not happy, you cannot be free. Freedom might be an ingredient of happiness for some, the rights to be superior, that may be the cause. But if they need superiority to feel happy, they are sick, they are not free but they are in fact the slave of their desires, which can obviously cause harms and breaks the happiness of others just because they need the feeling to be superior.

    They are driven by hatred, so they are sick, they can sit on their right to freedom and decide "today i want to kill some people because i'm free and because i will feel happy", that's just sick. Freedom should be fully allowed only to those who consider happiness more significant than freedom, because they are not sick.

    You are free to work all your life or be homeless, is that really freedom ? No not really. It's an illusion of freedom, you are not stuck in a cage of course, but if you don't have the money to buy an airplane ticket you can't go where you want to go. If you don't have the money to buy food, you don't eat.

    Ask yourselves, if you would be attached to a chain, forced to work so someone that has the freedom to do what he does, to own slaves that work for him. Would you be happy ? What would drive your ambition to get free if it's not the need for happiness ?

    If the answer is YES than Happiness is more significant than Freedom.
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    Jun 18 2011: I believe that both terms coexist and are not mutually exclusive.If freedom here refers to personal freedom, then people who prefer it do so as it makes them happier as compared to other state wherein they are not free.Similarly, for some others, happiness may be there if freedom is practiced under some restraints and controlled manner than letting everything go overhead.So, In a nutshell, there can never be a comparison!
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      Jun 20 2011: @ Supriya here comes a story.......about mutual inclusiveness / exclusiveness of those two elements of the premise

      Once a friendship grew up between a Pet Dog & Stray dog. Both were very happy with their own conditions. Everyday the Stray Dog used to come to the Pet one (pet one was under chain all the time) , and tell stories of the day which Pet found very exciting, but Pet has nothing much to say , except very good food, nice comfortable house , costly chain and accessories.

      One day Pet thought the Stray Dog is happier , so it thought to get rid of chain and enjoy like it's friend. That evening it told to the owner that , it wants to get rid of chain and it's routine .......... The owner agreed to let it free next morning.

      Pet couldn't sleep whole night because excitement. Next morning it was unchained and happily joined it's friend. They roam around the city with lot of excitement. While got hungry the Stray could manage it's food, pet failed but being friend Stray dog helped him , so it also got food , but it couldn't eat as those were different and completely not up to it's taste. It couldn't even rest under the tree in park but Stray dog was just fine and enjoying.

      Pet thought being 1st day , may be that's why it's difficult for her/him. So tried couple of days more , but found it's getting more and more difficult.....

      On 3rd day without telling anything to it's friend pet cam back home and lay down besides it chain and fell in to very good sleep that it was missing in these days..............
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    Jun 17 2011: Well , freedom means one is free even to be happy or unhappy................
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      Jun 17 2011: Well, what if you're happy (or content), because you are alienated by a dominating ideology and you don't really recognize you're not free, so you're basically happy being unfree? How "free" are you in that case?
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        Jun 20 2011: Hi Simone
        Yes , understand your point , but I took the premise in a very macro sense.

        Well from your point , there is nothing call happiness even or even in extreme painful condition one can be converted in to extreme happy person, just by injecting neuro-transmitor that gives the feelings of happiness in the body of that person :)
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    Jun 17 2011: It is hard to quantify happiness. But most importantly happiness is freedom to be as you are.
    Take for example the myth of Sisyphus.
    Their are two ways to imagine Sisyphus
    1. Tormented; To always push a boulder up the hill to watch it roll down and start over.
    -Without external freedom Sisyphus can never achieve any lasting external result he suffers the way the gods want him to.

    2. Happy; Life fulfills expectations and has meaning. Every time he reaches the top he can expect the boulder to roll back down where he can start to win the battle all over again by reaching the top. Sisyphus is cursed to forever win the struggle. (Winning!)
    - The gods can't make Sisyphus feel anything he doesn't want, he keeps internal freedom and maintains happiness.

    "nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent" Eleanor Roosevelt
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    Jun 17 2011: I believe that happiness cannot exist without freedom, but freedom can exist without happiness.