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Paul van Zoggel

edupreneur, 35 KM

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Can we just take the best of socialism and capitalism?

Designing the society for the children born now... now.. and now.. is thinking about society 2020-2120

There are various topics talking about the perfect dream society, beautiful, though what will it be build on? Which elements of previous systems should we take as we can't design from scratch?

Who are the designers?

There is one generation which can make up the balance between socialism (WeFirst) and capitalism (MeFirst);

The ones grown up in socialism, puberty in the crisis and turnaround, now living in capitalism. For Europe this is Eastern European countries, people between 20-40.

Some I know feel lost as they know both systems and both have good and ugly things they realize. Pitty the good parts of socialism are run over by western trains. It's not too late though...

What is good about capitalism?
What is good about socialism?

Are the best parts of both complimentary to be the basics of the next system taking care of the interests of individuals and corporations/collaborations?

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Closing Statement from Paul van Zoggel

Thinking about the future, I set out this question to 'find' like minded who actually lived in a socialist and capitalist system, being able to put best ingredients in a nice new homemade soup.

I forgot one thing; legacy of 'words'. Everybody grew up with the words 'capitalism and socialism, and all have an idea what these words imply. People with experience, people reading books.

So this topic started in looking for 'meaning' of the systems. And so we get trapped in discussing old discussions. Which can be fine, but I could have avoided it if there would be system semantics as obvious and common sense as 1+1=2.

I realized closed history chapters are written pages and adding new semantics has the effect of spending a lot of time describing the past while actually that energy should be ut in discovering the future.

So probably my mistake to set out the question like I did :) At the same time, and I hope you agree reading a bit through the comments, I get some great insights in perceptions of 'systems' that work(ed).

In short pessimism and optimism to 'design' the future. These contradictions in thought and words asks from us to think deeper and write clearer to get in the end something worth living/fighting for. Conversation makes clearance, without conversation we start to believe to much in our own perfect mental dream constructs.

Thanks again all for your contributions and see you on other topics!

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      Jun 20 2011: i would advise against listening to chomsky on economic-political issues. the guy strongly believes that division of labor is a bad thing.
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          Jun 20 2011: if he means that, why he does not say that? if i think people eat too much pork, i say it, and i don't say meet is poison. if i say the former, it is an opinion. the latter is lunacy.

          inequity=problem is not a well known fact, but a wide spread opinion. if you try to find any supporting arguments, you will be surprised that nobody even attempts to back it up. we just "know" that.
        • Jun 21 2011: It is a problem because people don't like the government to just give money away for free to whoever needs it as it would encourage people not to work, so the government must hire people to do relatively nonproductive tasks.

          The government needs to do this because inequality leads to unemployment, and employed people feel bad when unemployed people starve on the streets. Inequality leading to unemployment is not a fundamental condition or result of inequality, but rather is the result of assumptions which predispose people to make economic choices which lead to a rise in unemployment:
          http://pastebin.com/Q86Zhgs9

          In that sense there is no logical argument that inequality is a problem, only strong and consistent observational evidence.
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          Jun 22 2011: misaki, tl;dr. this article took off with a bunch of hazy to wrong statements, and i'm not willing to read to the end.

          can you briefly summarize why would inequality lead to unemployment?

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